KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Jaedar]

Man, I can live without TU's (I don't want to, but long war shows I can), but I really don't know if I can pledge to 4 man squad game.

It's especially sad, because in apoc, they figured out how to make it easy to handle large squads (the solution: box select for movement and probably firing too but I never used that). But maybe Gollop has excised that game from his memory.

Those T-shirts look p nice, shame you have to pledge 250 dollars minimum to get one.

 

[Obsequious Approbation]

I added that first look thingie to my $29 pledge to PoE2 but I still don't see it. Fucking Fig, how does it work?

 

[Infinitron]

I added that first look thingie to my $29 pledge to PoE2 but I still don't see it. Fucking Fig, how does it work?

I guess it's not automatic.

 

[rezaf]

Those T-shirts look p nice, shame you have to pledge 250 dollars minimum to get one.

Spoiler

Well, you COULD...

Just sayin'

 

[veevoir]

I added that first look thingie to my $29 pledge to PoE2 but I still don't see it. Fucking Fig, how does it work?

How? I can't even edit my PoEII pledge..

 

[Obsequious Approbation]

Sorry. I meant to say that I added it while the campaign was under way. I doubt it can be done anymore.

 

[Infinitron]

Sorry. I meant to say that I added it while the campaign was under way. I doubt it can be done anymore.

In that case, I don't know why you can't see the Phoenix Point page.

 

[ArchAngel]

I sent them an email to complain how I don't have early access to the campaign and they gave it to me :D
I pledged to the campaign

 

[Irenaeus]

I'm worried about how customizable your soldiers' appearences will be.

 

[ArchAngel]

I'm worried about how customizable your soldiers' appearences will be.

Wtf, that is least important part of this game. I don't even understand why firaxis wasted so much time and effort into giving so many options in nuXcoms.

 

[34scell]

They should all just look like Guile.

 

[Destroid]

 

[thesheeep]

I never really realized just how derpy they look...

 

[xxxCatholicKillahxxx]

I can relate to people wanting a two action point system but I cannot understand why they would want it.
What I find to be the time unit based system's biggest drawback is book-keeping, excessive book-keeping which is nullified by the fact that it is a computer and not a tabletop wargame.

Does the problem arise from having to do calculus with inflated numbers? It is still mostly adding and subtracting. And a scale of 1-100 time units might not even be necessary. 1-10 could be sufficient enough or something in between.

 

[veevoir]

I can relate to people wanting a two action point system but I cannot understand why they would want it.
What I find to be the time unit based system's biggest drawback is book-keeping, excessive book-keeping which is nullified by the fact that it is a computer and not a tabletop wargame.

Does the problem arise from having to do calculus with inflated numbers? It is still mostly adding and subtracting. And a scale of 1-100 time units might not even be necessary. 1-10 could be sufficient enough or something in between.

It's exactly the problem that both Action points and time units alike have (btw.. 2AP is just 2 time units system..)

It is as bad as having 100 units and 10+ tasks to perform per round each with different (not intuitive) TU price each (not that having a lot of options is bad, but once you need to calculate all combinations it becomes tedious) . One is oversimplifying, second one is over-complicating.

 

[Mazisky]

Hopefully a modder will introduce Time units, 320x240 resolution, 2d sprites and clunky UI for all those Time units fans.

 

[Israfael]

I really don't get this problem - its solution is very trivial. If TUs are too hard for an average popamoler, the devs can simply add HoMM-3 style of grid highlighting (one color for movement, another for snapshot/ aimed shot etc) or simply add effective TU reservation system like in Pocket UFO (the game would not allow you to spend TU below certain amount if you selected 'reserve auto/reserve aimed/etc'. Dumb people would be dumb regardless of what system is used (and phase action system still uses some sort of granularity measurement for internal purposes anyways, it simply does not allow you to control it)

 

[Zombra]

Fig campaign public launch is in 12 hours.

 

[Jimmious]

About the TU topic of discussion: TUs are not more "simulationist" than the 2-Action system imo. They are awesome for us autists who want to micromanage every little step but they are actually a bit less realistic if you think about it. The 2-Action thing of nuXCOMs at least provides some more possibilities for surprises and mistakes.
I don't think it's more "simulationy" to have for example a dude take 3 steps, turn, shoot, throw a grenade, turn, take 5 steps and then stop. All while everyone else is waiting for him. And yes I know how turns are supposed to be thought of or "imagined", but at least the new system makes that a bit more relatable. You run somewhere, you can't change your mind 5 times during that run.
I'm not against TUs or anything similar, I like these systems, but I'd never call them more realistic - that's my point.

What I would absolutely advocate for though, in terms of realism, is individual/independent INITIATIVE. I never really liked the "us then the enemy" turn order. Always feels very board-gamey.

 

[thesheeep]

I don't mind a fixed number of actions per turn, either. It isn't what makes or breaks a game.
What I find annoying as hell is the "special" thing that an attack ends the turn, possibly wasting the movement.

 

[veevoir]

Fig campaign public launch is in 12 hours.

Judging by the exclusive access (for which you apparently need to only sign up on phoenix point newsletter) there will be early access.
Also all pledge levels include Chaos Reborn, so if you did not pick it up yet - it's a great chance to do so.

 

[Infinitron]

New pitch video:

 

[Destroid]

About the TU topic of discussion: TUs are not more "simulationist" than the 2-Action system imo. They are awesome for us autists who want to micromanage every little step but they are actually a bit less realistic if you think about it. The 2-Action thing of nuXCOMs at least provides some more possibilities for surprises and mistakes.
I don't think it's more "simulationy" to have for example a dude take 3 steps, turn, shoot, throw a grenade, turn, take 5 steps and then stop. All while everyone else is waiting for him. And yes I know how turns are supposed to be thought of or "imagined", but at least the new system makes that a bit more relatable. You run somewhere, you can't change your mind 5 times during that run.
I'm not against TUs or anything similar, I like these systems, but I'd never call them more realistic - that's my point.

What I would absolutely advocate for though, in terms of realism, is individual/independent INITIATIVE. I never really liked the "us then the enemy" turn order. Always feels very board-gamey.

Frozen Synapse 2 is coming with simultaneous phased based combat, this time featuring a strategic meta layer like xcom.

 

[Jimmious]

Yes, simultaneous turns are the way to go "realism-wise" but hard to execute

 

[Israfael]

They are awesome for us autists who want to micromanage every little step but they are actually a bit less realistic if you think about it. The 2-Action thing of nuXCOMs at least provides some more possibilities for surprises and mistakes.

It's not about any sort of 'realism' per se - system can be as schematic and unreal as anything - it's about two things:

1) The system itself - all its rules should be applied equally and logically to every entity within it. You can't use arbitrary rules and crutches that apply to certain elements of the simulation. For example, pod spawn system in the nu-xcom, total lack of ballistics (except when your bullets/rays meet the cars), free move for aliens when the pod is triggered. In a 'game' there only a player and some sort of bunch of arbitrary rules that limit his actions, in a simulation like x-com every entity has the same rights and possible ways of actions like the player. Game felt so alive (on geoscape level) because of it (as aliens had their own goals, missions and they actively tried to find and exterminate you)

2) Same thing about 'changing mind' (and people usually react fairly quickly to changes in environment) - restricting players' choices for gameplay reasons is the antithesis of a simulation. Do you really understand what it is? Does not seem so, at least looking at it from here.

n terms of realism, is individual/independent INITIATIVE

Should be completely irrelevant, and everything is supposed to happen at the same time, so adding a new arbitrary 'gamey' variable does not serve anything. Furthermore, X-com already has a thing called 'reaction fire' that does the thing you want