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Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Bester

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Your question is oddly specific: firstly not just any athlete, or even fighter (allowing therefore for boxers, Greco-roman wrestlers, single-discipline martial artists, etc.), or even just MMA fighters of any variant expect cage-fighters.
That's cause Heavy Weight MMA cage fighters are the ultimate killing machines. They're the pinnacle of fighting athleticism. You take the greatest boxer/greco-roman wrestler in the world and put him against Junior Dos Santos and your guy is dead in 2 minutes. So it's pretty much useless to discuss disciplines that don't mean shit when an actual fighting starts where there are no rules like "oooh, you can't kick with your feet... and you can just hug your opponent and rest for 2 minutes if you're into that kind of thing".
Heavyweight MMA is THE fighting. Everything else is a fucking circus show.

Secondly, you leave out the dozen other weights and require specifically heavyweights.
That's cause there's no way in hell a lightweight could beat a heavyweight. He'd be faster, but once he catches that hit (and he will, eventually), he's down. Oh, and he wouldn't be able to inflict any damage at all, even if the heavyweight guy just stood there, trying to solve math problems in his mind, the lightweight guy would only be a small nuisance.

I'm going to take up your questions partially by saying: "Ali vs. Foreman."
You probably have gathered by now that I'm not a boxing fangirl, so I don't know that fight and it most likely isn't relevant to an actual fighting discussion.
 

GordonHalfman

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Dex based fighters were a thing in 3/3.5 games.

Anyway are we mad that there are no dump stats are that there are?
 

Lhynn

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Attributes should tell a story about who your character is, especially in a game like this. He did go full retard tho.

Edit: Yeah, was using his words without thinking bout them.
 
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Zed

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Codex USB, 2014
it's definitely possible for an attribute to be more descriptive of a character, i.e. Strength instead of Might. but narrative consistency? eh what
 

SymbolicFrank

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Hm. What to do, what to expect, do I want to spend the time trying to change it, will it matter?


Ok. For starters, I have enough turn-based RPG/squad games to last me the rest of the year, although none of them beat Jagged Alliance 2 or (my favorite) Fallout Tactics. But they're decent enough.

For the IE games, I liked being able to run battles on auto, and only pause and execute the important stuff, like positioning, buffing and spells. For the hard battles! Or to spread the spell usage to last longer. The positioning and buffing alone before a battle took probably half the time.

And that's fun! Like, spending hours in character creation, play for a few hours and go back to rolling a better party.

The journey you plan to take resolves around companions and items. And in BG2, there are so many builds, companions and especially items, that it's always a challenging time sink to come up with a new/better one.

But... that requires meta-knowledge! That only works if you plan to play it multiple times!

Exactly.

The casual stuff will bore me in minutes.


So, I want to be able to automate the filler combat. And doing the same positioning and buffing over and over again gets old fast. And that's what we have computers for: to automate that.


Then again, someone who uses p&p and LARPG groups as their benchmark will totally fail in understanding that.

I posted a thread on the Obsidian forums to complain about that; the lead designer boneheaded designing a system that only works for turn-based with small parties for use in a real-time with pause system. Because I expected him to do it on purpose.

But after thinking it over, I expect that he wouldn't understand my opposition, as the concept I'm talking about is alien to him. There is no: "design the right system for the current requirements", there is only The Best system. Singular, instead of plural. No scope. Like, religion.

Bah.
 

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Then again, someone who uses p&p and LARPG groups as their benchmark will totally fail in understanding that.

I posted a thread on the Obsidian forums to complain about that; the lead designer boneheaded designing a system that only works for turn-based with small parties for use in a real-time with pause system.

This is not wholly incorrect. Currently it feels like pause with real-time.
 

Metal Hurlant

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Codex USB, 2014 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Pause for 20-30 seconds so you can mouse over and wait to find out what that power is for a specific character, to find out if it's an encounter or daily power. If it's a daily, you'll probably save that power for later further delaying your selection, then you eventually select an encounter power. Do that for ALL characters. Un-pause for 2 seconds to watch that spectacular battle unfold in glorious widescreen REAL TIME and then pause again. Then you go through the steps of selecting all your powers again while the game is paused. Oh God, the mega-dungeon is going to test my patience if they don't get this combat right.

And the pop ups need to come up faster when you mouse over. Also, encounter and daily powers need to be more identifiable instead of mousing over the power to find out if it's an encounter or per rest power. I might have to have all the powers printed out and taped to the side of my monitor. Be a lot easier than waiting for the damn mouse over to come up.
 

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Okay I modded out recovery time with pause while moving, and I made a demonstration video to showcase it and OH MY GOD so much better.

Video incoming.
 
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nihil

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You take the greatest boxer/greco-roman wrestler in the world and put him against Junior Dos Santos and your guy is dead in 2 minutes.

If you put knives or swords in their hands, Dos Santos' size and strength will matter much less, and both fighters' speed and proficiency with weapons will matter a lot more.

So it's pretty much useless to discuss disciplines that don't mean shit when an actual fighting starts where there are no rules like "oooh, you can't kick with your feet... and you can just hug your opponent and rest for 2 minutes if you're into that kind of thing".

You mean like MMA "oooh, you can't gouge his eyes, oooh you can't bite and kick his balls, oooh you can't stomp his face when he's down (well, Pride did allow it)"?

Heavyweight MMA is THE fighting. Everything else is a fucking circus show.

MMA has rules like any other sport. It's closer to a real, unarmed 1-on-1 fight than other sports, but it's still far from the real thing where anything goes, there are no rounds, more than two people can be involved (good luck with ground & pound or grappling against two people), and there can be weapons.
 

Bester

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If you put knives or swords in their hands, Dos Santos' size and strength will matter much less, and both fighters' speed and proficiency with weapons will matter a lot more.

Weeell. Not really. I mean, if both fighters have knives/swords and have absolutely no defense, 99% chances they're both going to be dead either way. In that case, you could say that nothing would matter, because both would be able to stab each other a dozen of times anyway.

Sort of like that:


I know a guy who specializes in all kinds of martial arts and knives, he even trains a woman karate fighter for Olympic games. He's super fast himself. And while he's been training himself to fight unarmed against knives all his life, it still doesn't matter much, because on average he can only deflect/parry/avoid 3 attacks out of 10. That's nothing.

And if both fighters do have defense, then strength and sheer size would help A LOT. Like that:



Sure, in this video there are too many rules, like if a person goes down, he's lost, but it still gives a pretty good idea of how strength and size would be of paramount importance in an armored sword fight. And unarmored sword fight makes no sense.

So Strength and Const for Fighters in PoE - must be relevant. Other stats - not/less relevant.
 

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Here's the mod working:



I'll be making a suggestion thread on the OE soonish, but I'm going to record more videos to prove it is better.
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
Not to be an armchair video critic, but may I suggest turning down the music volume a little. For the most part it is fine, but there are parts in the video where the music makes it a little harder to hear you. Or, maybe I am just horribly ADHD.

Otherwise, good suggestion. I can't wait to see who accuses you of hijacking the game's development this time.
 

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Yes it was too loud that video, I know. Previously it's always been too soft.

I don't use video editing software, my setup is record -> transcode -> upload for fast turnover, so I just accept the little faults. I've found a better volume level now though.

Here's the thread anyway: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68...time-should-not-pause-while-moving-mod-video/

Infinitron suggested I do a before and after video, but I've tried 3 times to record a before video and the AI keeps stuffing up in melee.
 

nihil

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If you put knives or swords in their hands, Dos Santos' size and strength will matter much less, and both fighters' speed and proficiency with weapons will matter a lot more.

Weeell. Not really. I mean, if both fighters have knives/swords and have absolutely no defense, 99% chances they're both going to be dead either way. In that case, you could say that nothing would matter, because both would be able to stab each other a dozen of times anyway.

Are you saying that two people with no armor and a sword each would usually both die, independently of their body control and skill with the weapon? I don't know much about real sword fighting, but that sounds a little exaggerated.

I'm not saying size doesn't matter at all, I'm just saying modern MMA is not real fighting, and that introducing weapons lessens the importance of strength. As for the latter, maybe I'm overestimating technique.

So Strength and Const for Fighters in PoE - must be relevant. Other stats - not/less relevant.

But PoE is a game, and a fantasy one, so it can probably get away with romanticising how fighting works.
 

agentorange

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