Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[mutonizer]

Sensuki, really think you should demonstrate things using slow-mo and focusing only on what you want to demonstrate. Bit hard to see what' the point is when you one shot mobs, pause, loot and whatnot
Other than that, nice one and yea, seems smoother.

The more I test though, the more bullshit under bullshit under bullshit I find and that makes the entire system crazy how it goes with everything being an "affliction" and whatnot. Really bad design and there is NO WAY they tested this shit in a PnP situation, it just doesn't work.

 

[Athelas]

there is NO WAY they tested this shit in a PnP situation, it just doesn't work.

 

[RK47]

There is no way they were planning for 'old school games' when RTWP was selected.
But Sawyer is asking for it anyway when he starts lecturing people on how to play his RPGs.

 

[mutonizer]

There is no way they were planning for 'old school games' when RTWP was selected.
But Sawyer is asking for it anyway when he starts lecturing people on how to play his RPGs.

The way it is now, he's probably not playing it at all. If he is and doesn't instantly go "wtf have I created", then PoE, at least combat wise, is doomed already.
That said, they could be at a "shit we got a problem with this" stage, but pressed by time and therefore only trying to find palliative solutions instead of full revamp, so that at least some people, on normal difficulty, will have a somewhat passable combat experience.

 

[Sensuki]

The more I test though, the more bullshit under bullshit under bullshit I find and that makes the entire system crazy how it goes with everything being an "affliction" and whatnot. Really bad design and there is NO WAY they tested this shit in a PnP situation, it just doesn't work.

Yep it's unfortunate. Under the hood there is soooo much broken stuff its' not funny. Will probably end up being worse in the IE games in that regard, except the things that Josh thought were OP in the IE games will be underpowered

Unfortunately we'll probably end up getting a million bandaids on bulletholes rather than actual identification, assessment and fixing of core issues.

Still, keep trucking on I guess. I'm more concerned about missing/finalization of features. I think the balance may end up sucking on release but as long as there's some way to get at the prefabs I can always do an overhaul mod.

 

[mutonizer]

Yea I'm at that point too now. Vanilla game will suck balls in every respect (combat, economy, exploration, etc) apart from story (hopefully they nail that down properly) and it'll be down to modding for everything else.
I fully expect teams to start doing complete revamps from day 1, and once/if it can get done, it'll probably be pretty good.

 

[Infinitron]

You know, I had mercy on felipepepe and didn't do it for Wasteland 2, but when this game comes out, I'm totally going to I TOLD YOU SO you guys. Be prepared!

 

[Spockrock]

And unarmored sword fight makes no sense.

what about these Japanese guys:

 

[Sensuki]

My attitude may change with later patches. I'm going to wait for at least another one until I write my Codexian Preview.

 

[Johannes]

And unarmored sword fight makes no sense.

Yet somehow it's was almost the sole method of dueling for many centuries of at least European history. Swords are not knives, while double hits can happen they were not that common.


And on strength:

 

[Sensuki]

Josh SA post from just before:

We're still working on a lot of the interface feel/responsiveness/clarity issues. I think the BB has improved on it a lot already but there's still more to do.

And yes, the reason why we went with the PC always speaking (short of interjections) is because in this story, the PC is the driving/organizing force. The companions have interests that overlap with the PC, but it's not their ship to steer. The reputations that you develop are also based off of the things that your PC is saying/doing, so I think it comes off as odd if just anyone can stand in for your character in those circumstances.

***

It's interesting to see how different languages construct the concept of "having" fun or enjoying doing something. In German the thing that "is" fun becomes the subject "making fun" or "making a lot of fun" (z.B. "_____ macht viel Spaß"). If you enjoy doing something, you use the adverb "gern"/"gerne" (gladly), which has the similar etymology to yearn.

"Gaudi" also appears in German as a type of festival or as fun itself (though I think that latter use is more southern/regional in Bairisch/Austrian German).

The previous discussion was SA laughing at me because I prefer looting corpses to a loot all button. So I'd put my money on the fact that they probably will add a loot all function x_x

Also in the next patch, shift queuing movement and actions will be implemented.

I managed to piss Furism off so much that he bought me an avatar and a catch phrase:

Apparently that means "if you're having fun you're doing it wrong" in latin

 

[cherry blossom]

the lead designer boneheaded designing a system that only works for turn-based with small parties for use in a real-time with pause system.

Exactly. Playing combat in POE is like watching a closet-gay making homophobic gay jokes to save the moment while in bed with his girlfriend and trying to force an erection into his flaccid little dick. POE combat is what would happen if you took a turn-based game of average complexity and suddenly made it real-time without any regard or attempt to adapt the mechanics. It is begging to be made Turn-Based.

But after thinking it over, I expect that he wouldn't understand my opposition, as the concept I'm talking about is alien to him. There is no: "design the right system for the current requirements", there is only The Best system. Singular, instead of plural. No scope. Like, religion.

And also this.

 

[Metal Hurlant]

Mods will fix it. I can imagine a complete overhaul mod including changing it to TB. Might take a while but I think it'd be worth it.

 

[mutonizer]

It's interesting to see how different languages construct the concept of "having" fun or enjoying doing something. In German the thing that "is" fun becomes the subject "making fun" or "making a lot of fun" (z.B. "_____ macht viel Spaß"). If you enjoy doing something, you use the adverb "gern"/"gerne" (gladly), which has the similar etymology to yearn.

Think "fun" should really be removed from any game design discussion simply because there are 6.5 billions different meaning and therefore it means nothing.
Engaging, Immersive, Tactical, Intellectually or Morally challenging, Character focused, Story focused, Game-play focused are examples of terms that have a place in the discussion but "fun" just doesn't.

And yes, the reason why we went with the PC always speaking (short of interjections) is because in this story, the PC is the driving/organizing force. The companions have interests that overlap with the PC, but it's not their ship to steer. The reputations that you develop are also based off of the things that your PC is saying/doing, so I think it comes off as odd if just anyone can stand in for your character in those circumstances.

Then they need to make it so it's ALWAYS the PC that will go and talk, not the closest character, that just makes it weird.

 

[mutonizer]

And unarmored sword fight makes no sense.

what about these Japanese guys [..]

You mean these? (image used to make a point is all, sorry for size)

Japanese used shit tons of armors on the battlefield, Samurais and all.

 

[cherry blossom]

Well, unlike the common depiction in games, people didn't walk around head to toe in armour all the time, an activity most often reserved for actual battles, even though they did carry weapons and engaged in armed fights.

 

[mutonizer]

Pretty sure "people back in the day" didn't encounter giant beetles, bandits, giant lions, wolves, dragons, ogres and whatnot every 10 yards though

And that they were pretty fucked by any moron somewhat accurate with a bow, or even a rock (which really hurts!)

 

[tuluse]

Then they need to make it so it's ALWAYS the PC that will go and talk, not the closest character, that just makes it weird.

It works exactly the same way PST did IIRC.

 

[Infinitron]

I managed to piss Furism off so much that he bought me an avatar and a catch phrase:

Apparently that means "if you're having fun you're doing it wrong" in latin

 

[mutonizer]

Then they need to make it so it's ALWAYS the PC that will go and talk, not the closest character, that just makes it weird.

It works exactly the same way PST did IIRC.

So?
Still makes it weird when your main character is on the other side of the map, that he suddenly becomes the "voice" when a companion engages discussion with someone.

 

[cherry blossom]

Pretty sure "people back in the day" didn't encounter giant beetles, bandits, giant lions, wolves, dragons, ogres and whatnot every 10 yards though

And that they were pretty fucked by any moron somewhat accurate with a bow, or even a rock (which really hurts!)

The wild animals were a common hazard in far too many places. It's not an accident that game hunting and big game hunting were and are reserved activities and that medieval period saw professional hunters working full time to keep wild animals away from main roads and settlements.

And a "bandit" wasn't someone who walked around in mail or similar harness all the time either. Not that he could afford the finances nor the lack of subtlety and mobility he'd need for his "banditry". People obviously faced these threats and lived to tell of it and I'm betting more than just some dumb luck was involved.

The thing with giant beetles, giant lions, wolves, dragons and ogres is that games make no distinction between fighting armed men and savage beasts. Not with the necessary skills, nor with the necessary equipment; the reason it's one of the most banal-shit-boring and retarded activities in a fantasy game when you fight a giant spider or a dragon as you would fight your fellow man in armour. Developers are too lazy or unimaginative to implement special combat mechanics for non-humanoids and effectively, take all the fun and suspense out of fighting strange creatures. Some games manage to cover that with well balanced tactics.

People hated Gothic 3 for this reason but it did the right thing, albeit clumsily, with the Hunting skills. People need to take cue and take over.

 

[Lhynn]

You know, I had mercy on felipepepe and didn't do it for Wasteland 2, but when this game comes out, I'm totally going to I TOLD YOU SO you guys. Be prepared.

If you think felipepe an the others criticism/feedback of the game didnt make the second half of it better and actually fun to play, you are fucking delusional.

 

[tuluse]

So?
Still makes it weird when your main character is on the other side of the map, that he suddenly becomes the "voice" when a companion engages discussion with someone.

Meh, it's an abstraction and it doesn't affect actually gameplay in any negative way. Probably a positive one since it means less waiting time to start conversations.

 

[Infinitron]

RPGs should let you talk to NPCs from a certain maximum distance instead of having to be right up next to them.

 

[Ulminati]

RPGs should let you yell at NPCs from a certain maximum distance instead of having to be right up next to them.