Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lacrymas]

Akachi knew what would happen to him if he rebelled, it wasn't about him being stupid. He chose to do it anyway, whether that was the "right" or "smart" decision or not is not the point. Since he knew what would happen his choice carries more weight and it is a choice that raises questions. Questions that have lasting effect and are felt when you play it as well, Kaelyn's Crusade is a direct product of them. The same thing happens in the Bible as well - Christ knows that he will be tortured and crucified if he did what he did, but he did it anyway. While it's obviously more powerful than anything in MotB, I'm just giving it as an example of a similar thing in literature and how it can be exploited to great effect.

If you are talking about Gann's "atheism", I'm on two minds about that, but it isn't explored enough either way. The only thing he says on the matter is that he doesn't like how the gods use mortals like playthings, but it doesn't show him fight against fate, alla Oedipus Rex, or their eternal machinations, it kind of just is, so I don't think that aspect of his character is very important.

 

[2house2fly]

Provided I understand your full point, making a Watcher into a curse/burden, as opposed to some sixth sense to whip out at a convenient notice? For example, being a Watcher causes otherwise normal people to "awaken" or go insane with past memories?

That would be cool. Maybe you could have a quest where your own soul becomes cursed by an awakening and you have to lay the ghost of your past life to rest by resolving its unfinished business. For example.

 

[Sizzle]

Maybe you could have a quest where your own soul becomes cursed by an awakening and you have to lay the ghost of your past life to rest by resolving its unfinished business. For example.

I can't tell if you're being ironic or not, but you just described the plot of PoE1 :D

 

[Quillon]

Being a watcher was(supposed to be)a curse/burden in PoE 1 and criticism was Watcher's not utilizing his/her powers and it was a welcome change to most people WMs did use the watcher aspect better. What now? Do you guys want base PoE1 watcher again but done better?

 

[Lacrymas]

The burden thing was handled extremely badly and it was self-contained, it didn't really affect anything nor did it force you to make choices you wouldn't normally do. It was vestigial and pointless at the start and then muscled out by what the game considered more important, like soul guilting you.

 

[Sizzle]

The whole "soul-guilt" shtick was one of the stupider RPG plot hooks I've seen.

 

[FreeKaner]

While it soul-guilts you you can also take decisions to be basically unrepentant "gas the heretics pantheon war now" right hand of Woedica that can say "Yes I did it and I would do it again" to that girl you torture at the end of the game. I liked that they gave an option to acknowledge your past-self as your actual past.

 

[hilfazer]

It would be actually great if sometimes when you got those scenes about being unable to sleep you got a debuff for fatigue.

Anyhow can someone from beta showcase rapier models? Do they still look like modern fencing epees, it would be really sad.

What made them look like epees? Length? Most of them actually had crossguards (or a cross part of fullguard), only generic 'rapier' didn't. Unfortunately generic rapier is first rapier players will see and for some also the only one.
And fullguard was developed on later rapiers. Maybe you miss that fancy guard, somewhat similar to sidesword's guard? I certainly do.
On Ydwin's concept art there was a weapon that could be a smallsword but i'm afraid they'll just call it a rapier.

Let's not expect too much from a game where sabers are good vs armor (according to my limited knowledge at least).

 

[Sensuki]

Not to mention the soul thingy and the Act 2 trial sound Eric Fenstermaker copy pasted them from his previous work.

 

[2house2fly]

The fuck is "soul-guilt". You mean when you get visions of your past life?

 

[Quillon]

It'd be nice if NPCs/factions will be more important than PC's struggles this time around in the presented story; better it becomes more about what kind of a character we wanna play rather than what the character is and its struggles & existential problems, nuff with that shit. Being a watcher is just a tool which opens up more options with soul stuff, makes it easier for the character to be important, justifies being a decision maker for groups, those decisions defining who he/she is in planet Eora.

 

[Sizzle]

The fuck is "soul-guilt". You mean when you get visions of your past life?

Yeah. The game insists that you feel very bad (to the point of not being able to move on) about what your past incarnation did, and that it still haunts you, thousands of years (and dozens of other incarnations) later.

 

[2house2fly]

The fuck is "soul-guilt". You mean when you get visions of your past life?

Yeah. The game insists that you feel very bad (to the point of not being able to move on) about what your past incarnation did, and that it still haunts you, thousands of years (and dozens of other incarnations) later.

It haunts HIM, and he lives in your body. That's what "awakening" means, his soul is conscious. Also he's not guilty, he can't move on because he never found out for sure if the gods were real or not.

 

[AwesomeButton]

This whole premise that you today should feel responsible for actions carried out by another person, in a previous age, is such gibberish.

It conflates the trope of reincarnation with the trope of time travel. Your past incarnation is not strictly "you in the past". That's even without taking into account that not "all of your soul" but only parts of it inhabit your body in your current reincarnatation.

 

[Salvo]

This whole premise that you today should feel responsible for actions carried out by another person, in a previous age, is such gibberish.

You mean, all the slavery accusations and what-not that have been flying around for the past decade? Because I agree with you.

 

[Sizzle]

What AwesomeButton said.

You're a hero (no matter if you are villainous or not - I'm using hero in the traditional, classical sense - someone who performs great deeds), the idea that you should feel eternally beholden because one of your past lives (so - not really you) was a wuss, is at odds with the type of game this is.

If they did something more with it, like - the sheer difference of personalities somehow weighing you down mechanically (the doubt lowering your Accuracy/Resolve/etc. - something like that), then that would have been an interesting take. But as it stands now - it's just a very strange, badly written and thought out idea.

 

[2house2fly]

What AwesomeButton said.

You're a hero (no matter if you are villainous or not - I'm using hero in the traditional, classical sense - someone who performs great deeds), the idea that you should feel eternally beholden because one of your past lives (so - not really you) was a wuss, is at odds with the type of game this is.

agreed, and it would have been lame if that was in Pillars Of Eternity.

 

[FreeKaner]

What made them look like epees? Length? Most of them actually had crossguards (or a cross part of fullguard), only generic 'rapier' didn't. Unfortunately generic rapier is first rapier players will see and for some also the only one.
And fullguard was developed on later rapiers. Maybe you miss that fancy guard, somewhat similar to sidesword's guard? I certainly do.
On Ydwin's concept art there was a weapon that could be a smallsword but i'm afraid they'll just call it a rapier.

Let's not expect too much from a game where sabers are good vs armor (according to my limited knowledge at least).

It isn't about crossguard or handle, it's about the blade. Rapiers have long flat blades they don't have short circular needles.

 

[AwesomeButton]

This whole premise that you today should feel responsible for actions carried out by another person, in a previous age, is such gibberish.

You mean, all the slavery accusations and what-not that have been flying around for the past decade? Because I agree with you.

That is a whole other different load of bullshit, and it's a direct result of the wretched state of history education in secondary schools.

Without teachers to teach them about the matter, simple people have become victims of the fallacy, purposefully spread by socialists, that we should judge events, decisions and actions that happened in distant historical periods by applying present day moral values universally. As if people in the late Middle Ages saw the world in the same categories in which we see it, or they thought about the State, God, their purpose in life in the same way in which a post-modern man thinks. If you have ever read a history schoolbook written from a Marxist perspective in the times of a Communist dictatorship, the similarities in the reasoning will hit you hard. Basically, the peasants revolted against the feudal lords because of class struggle, therefore their actions were progressive (because they were moving the wheel closer to the advent of Capitalism and its natural successor - the revolution of the proletariat) and just :D

BTW, just got an email from obsidian that my $29 order has been processed. I guess if I check the Obsidian forums, I will also have obtained the precious backer badge.

 

[Infinitron]

I think something that Fenstermaker's Folly wanted to say when he posted here after we published our interview with him is that the fact that you (the player) get to make character-defining dialogue choices as your character's past soul means that you should or could come to identify with him as well. Obviously that didn't work for everybody, but it's something that's often not acknowledged by critics who go "Why should I care, it's not my character". The interactivity is important.

See also: Determining your past choices with Duncan and Raymond in Shadowrun: Hong Kong.

 

[Sizzle]

Shadowrun: Hong Kong is a totally different thing. First off - it happened to you, not some past version of you. Secondly, it also determines what you feel towards your foster family - who also interact with you during the course of the game.

In PoE - the outcome is already (long) determined, so all you get to decide (that is of any actual consequence) is what you will do with Iovarra's and Thaos's souls, at the very end of the game.

This, like most of PoE's story problems, stems from the story being written in a hurry, and without significant revisions (and editing).

 

[AwesomeButton]

I don't rightly remember, because I skimmed through all the walls of text, but I think the game allows you to take the position that you don't care about what your past reincarnation did. As it should be, IMO, because that was not you doing those things, it's like a distant great-grandfather. How should you feel responsible.

 

[fantadomat]

This whole premise that you today should feel responsible for actions carried out by another person, in a previous age, is such gibberish.

You mean, all the slavery accusations and what-not that have been flying around for the past decade? Because I agree with you.

That is right,you should feel pride for putting down heretics and barbarians!
The whole thing felt very ridiculous in the game. As many other bad writing decisions. If your soul is the same thing then your character should be close to what it was before.

 

[Sizzle]

I don't rightly remember, because I skimmed through all the walls of text, but I think the game allows you to take the position that you don't care about what your past reincarnation did. As it should be, IMO, because that was not you doing those things, it's like a distant great-grandfather. How should you feel responsible.

Yes, but you only get to decide that you don't care (or that you do) right at the very end.

Before that, the game is still guiding and forcing you into a final showdown with Thaos (who, being the very uninterested, passive villain that he is, never once even attempted to confront you), using very weak "I guess he can cure what ails ya!" reasoning.

I've written about this before, but I believe a better way to give the entire situation some gravitas was to have your soul be attracted to and come in contact with Thaos in every incarnation (sometimes as an ally, sometimes as an adversary), until you finally defeat him at the end of PoE, giving you proper, deserved closure. It would have also given off a nice PS:T-vibe that was sorely missing from the game.

 

[Maculo]

I thought the past-life choices were one of the better parts of PoE. You could choose to make your past life into whatever context you wanted, whether that be unfinished business from a prior life, a search for truth, or disregard it as an annoying byproduct. It needed more refinement obviously, but I liked the effort and the "I need the gods for redemption" line of choices led to interesting dialogue in my opinion.

It would be nice if it served some context in POE2, but I think Obsidian is practically starting on a blank slate to the extent possible.

Edit: Has Obsidian given any word on Watcher abilities in PoE2?