Development Info Pillars of Eternity II Fig Update #30: Creating Environments

[Sizzle]

Is white march mostly fighting?

Yes. There is a bit of story too though. I liked it, it's unpretentious and straightforward, and fits the fighting well. Also Zahua is a hoot.

TWM2 also has an area (The Monastery) that harkens back to Raedric's Hold, one of the best-designed areas of the base game.

There is hardly anything special about Raedric's Hold, its just a big fortress of boring blandness. But I guess compared to the rest of the game, it takes the cake because its actually DESIGNED

Your expectations dropped so much that you think giving alternative options for entry is something revolutionary

I'm talking about alternative ways to do something in the context of the IE games.

BG2's Ust Naha design, for example. Is it revolutionary? Of course not, but compared to the rest of the game - double and triple-crossing people who want to exploit you is a welcome change of pace. Even more importantly - it's fun.

Adjusting to those expectations, RH is well-designed area for this type of game. It accomplishes several things:

1) Demonstrates that sometimes we can employ different skills, attributes and approaches if we don't want to just attack head-on.

2) Shows us the effects of the Hollowborn crisis (something which is mostly lacking in the rest of the game).

3) Deposing of a power-mad tyrant is a very D&D-like scenario.

4) Possibly the first major, tough fight (depending on character level) against human opponents (Raedaric and his bodyguards).

 

[luj1]

Please... all that is horseshit

1) Demonstrates that sometimes we can employ different skills, attributes and approaches if we don't want to just attack head-on.

Your expectations sank so much that you think alternative options for entry (e.g. front gate, basement, kitchen) somehow make this dungeon (which is 90% trashmob cancer) cool and impressive.

I'll remind you of Helms Hold in Nwn, which despite Nwn being shat on regularly on the Dex, actually has, 1) a trapped demon with multiple solutions 2) a merchant stable boy with unique stock 3) an unrelated quest regarding undead infestation in the bottom level 4) prisoners with various additional information/quests

All that on top of different entry points and a boss fight. Which are two standard features that don't even deserve to be mentioned tbh

2) Shows us the effects of the Hollowborn crisis (something which is mostly lacking in the rest of the game).

Let's say I agree

3) Deposing of a power-mad tyrant is a very D&D-like scenario.

How impressive... yawn

4) Possibly the first major, tough fight against human opponents

Wow a boss fight at the end of a dungeon. Even fucking Super Mario had that "amazing feature". Tell me, are you a shill? or just a "my glass is always half-full" person?

 

[Sizzle]

1) Demonstrates that sometimes we can employ different skills, attributes and approaches if we don't want to just attack head-on.

Your expectations sank so much that you think alternative options for entry (e.g. basement, kitchen, roof) somehow make this dungeon (which is 90% trashmob cancer) cool and impressive.

I'll remind you of Helms Hold in Nwn, which despite Nwn being shat on regularly on the Dex, actually has, 1) a trapped demon with multiple solutions 2) a merchant stable boy with unique stock 3) an unrelated quest regarding undead infestation in the bottom level 4) prisoners with various additional information/quests

All that on top of different entry points and a boss fight at the end. Two standard features of dungeons which don't even deserve to be counted tbh

To reiterate - I'm talking about IE-like games. If I wanted to make a point about alternative ways to do something in an RPG, I would have brought up Age of Decadence.

3) Deposing of a power-mad tyrant is a very D&D-like scenario.

That doesn't even deserve to be mentioned

It does if we're talking about IE games. And we are.

4) Possibly the first major, tough fight against human opponents

Wow a boss fight every dungeon has , ever...

Not every PoE dungeon has a boss fight.

Tell me, are you a shill?

I have absolutely no problem with anyone not liking PoE (there's a lot about it that can rightly be criticized), nor do I feel the need to try and "convert" you into liking it - I'm merely discussing it.

 

[luj1]

It does if we're talking about IE games.

Fuck that. Stop insulting IE games. We're discussing environment design generally

.. And I'm not even suggesting BAD design (that would be something at least) but a near-total LACK OF design

 

[Quillon]

its just the maps were pathetically small in the first game.

Nah, here's hoping they'll do about the same size maps if not bigger for Deadfire, after Tyranny's pathetically small maps I'm a bit worried.

 

[l3loodAngel]

4) Possibly the first major, tough fight against human opponents

Wow a boss fight every dungeon has , ever...

Not every PoE dungeon has a boss fight.

How is that even an argument? Sinking to a new low then slowly barely raising a little bit is now considered a plus?

 

[luj1]

Sinking to a new low then slowly barely raising a little bit is now considered a plus?

That's exactly what is happening with the RPG industry and player expectations


Suddenly all this Sims-crap and eye candy grabs people attention, making them disregard the stuff that really matters, writing, C&C, world-building, core system design

 

[luj1]

Shillfinitron everyone knows youre a Cucksidian shill so why don't you join the conversation instead of flagging everybody you bum

 

[Infinitron]

The problem with your opinion of PoE isn't that it's wrong, it's that you're explaining it incorrectly.

It's something that people often do. "I like this old game more than I like this newer game, for reasons which I can't quite elucidate because I haven't thought about it deeply enough. So I'll just say the old game had 'better writing and C&C', even though those things actually have little to do with why I prefer it."

Your citation of Helm's Hold in NWN reveals what you actually care about - a more everything-goes, pulpy high fantasy sensibility, which PoE lacks. Demons and the undead! A merchant stable boy with unique stock! Unrelated sidequests! But those things aren't "writing, C&C and worldbuilding", which are clearly more robust in Raedric's Hold.

 

[luj1]

Your citation of Helm's Hold in NWN reveals what you actually care about

But those things aren't "writing, C&C and worldbuilding"

Its all of that + environment design


But please continue by all means, tell me what else I like/dislike you shill