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Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Started Cragholdt, the mercenaries basically attacked me the second I got there. I might have ...ruffled them a bit by saying I'll sic the Doemenels on them if they lay a finger on me, but they attacked me anyway so I slaughtered the entire camp. Is there a way to work with them? Some of them have names, so I assume you can. It'll be very good if it relies on your reputations or something. Also, is there a secret entrance into the castle itself from the cave (like a high mechanics check?) or is it only an exit for later?
 

Iznaliu

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Is there a way to work with them? Some of them have names, so I assume you can. It'll be very good if it relies on your reputations or something

I think you can do that to a certain extent, but ultimately you end up having to fight at some point.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Started Cragholdt, the mercenaries basically attacked me the second I got there. I might have ...ruffled them a bit by saying I'll sic the Doemenels on them if they lay a finger on me, but they attacked me anyway so I slaughtered the entire camp. Is there a way to work with them? Some of them have names, so I assume you can. It'll be very good if it relies on your reputations or something. Also, is there a secret entrance into the castle itself from the cave (like a high mechanics check?) or is it only an exit for later?

Why do you want this spoiled for you?
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Is that such a huge spoiler? I doubt I'll be replaying this any time soon and won't see for myself, so I don't really care for this particular spoiler. I just want to know if it's incline or you are railroaded into fighting them regardless of anything.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
I already killed them, so I doubt I can find out in this particular case, but if you think it's such a huge spoiler and I'll ruin the whole thing for myself, then 'k.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Was that your veiled attempt at defending this thing? You didn't want to admit it's railroaded as fuck? It was the perfect opportunity for them to include some branching and alternate paths (it's just two maps ffs), but lo! and behold it's just a straightforward slaughter-fest. Is this the magnificent design people have praised Cragholdt for? I hope it gets better once I get into the castle itself. Huh, I guess I did ruin the whole thing for myself, in the sense that I thought it was incline, but I see how naive I was.
 

Roguey

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I've only ever seen Cragholdt praised for having tough combat, not amazing roleplaying.

The quest isn't called the siege of Cragholdt for nothing.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Ah, so I can only expect a chain of fights in the castle itself as well? I guess I have to adjust my expectations accordingly.
 

Sizzle

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There's some variation in how you tackle the events in the castle.

Not a lot, mind you.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
No it wasn't an attempt to defend it. It was an attempt to not ruin the fun for you. It's always more fun when you don't know if you're missing something. But eh, you insisted so you got what you asked for.

Those are some good fights, especially the final one. But it is a straight-up old-school hack-and-slash module.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
It's more fun if there's something else to miss, not only by itself, that's just inane. I really thought that they've learned a thing or two and made it like Raedric's, with multiple paths and stuff, the dialogue kinda hints at such. You are right that it's worse now that I know it's always the same and there is no incline. White March 1 has been pretty underwhelming now that I know 99% of what it has to offer. The maps are pretty barren, with nothing to see, the most interesting thing was the hot springs. Maybe the monument with the Grey Sleeper was incline in the sense that it's there and it does something. The maps need to be art. I dunno, I was maybe expecting too much. If White March 2 ends up very good I still wouldn't recommend PoE tbh, it's not worth slogging through everything else to get to it. And it's a looooooong game.

If there's one game which will benefit enormously from an Enhanced Edition, it's PoE. There are some nuggets of potential here and there and a good game hides under the hood, but it's all drowned out in mediocrity and dullness. I also don't see any replay value whatsoever, it's soul-crushingly linear and the few branches of reactivity are too few and far between. The factions are a great example, there's only 1 quest you can't do for the factions before choosing one of them. The Dozens' quest in Lle a Rhemen can be done at the start of Act III as opposed to in Act 2, too, it's just not a quest in your log.

I'm actually glad PoE2 is like a reboot and remake, a chance to fix what was wrong in PoE (which is basically everything). I really wanted to like PoE more than I do, now that they had a bajillion patches to fix everything, but even playing it like IWD, i.e. only for the combat, proved not very good. It becomes tedious at around level 10 or even earlier. The dungeons were awful, just awful. Even getting to this point tried my patience, I already listed all the things I had to skip/do to make it more bearable somewhere around here. I'm going to finish it just to see White March 2 and have a save file ready to import into PoE2, but that's about it, I doubt I'll replay it any time soon, if ever. This is not a good thing btw, I really wanted to like it and set my expectations accordingly, but the game prevents me at every turn. To use an analogy which Durance would like - It's like a whore who demands money with each touch or thrust, you want to like it but she prevents that. She might be a good whore underneath all the bullshit, but alas.
 

Roguey

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Pillars was already enhanced, twice. It could not possibly be any more enhanced than it already is (without adding dumb crap like Wasteland 2 or Divinity Original Sin).
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
It doesn't need more crap added on top, it needs stuff removed (a lot of the text is the first thing to go) and others made better. Cragholdt is a perfect example, the layout of the map is already capable of handling various paths to the castle. One should be working with the mercenaries, one of them being in the cave (maybe paying one of the mercenaries to smuggle you to the entrance) and one of them being what it is now, maybe a fourth hidden one by having specific reputations. Remove a bunch of useless side-quests in Defiance Bay (most of them) and add more complex quest lines for the factions. Don't allow you entrance into Lle a Rhemen if you aren't working for the Dozens, the game needs more exclusive content in general, I know Josh isn't a fan of that and I'd agree, but it's too late to make it like Fallout. Yeah, the maps are dull and boring, they can't be saved, but they can be used better. I don't know what to say about the combat, something doesn't click right, but I can't formulate it atm, it's too clusterfucky after a point for one thing. I dunno, it feels like it could've been done better without any increase in the budget or time. The priorities seem skewed, too much emphasis on trivial fluff, not enough on things that matter.
 

Roguey

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It doesn't need more crap added on top, it needs stuff removed (a lot of the text is the first thing to go) and others made better.

Josh will happily change game mechanics for as long as he's able, but feels that narrative elements should never be altered once they're out there. He'd never do something like this.
 

IHaveHugeNick

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Cragholdt and Lengrath are just endgame power-gaming locations if you will, don't expect any great roleplaying because there isn't none. +
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Josh will happily change game mechanics for as long as he's able, but feels that narrative elements should never be altered once they're out there. He'd never do something like this.

Why? It's not like he'd be changing the story, just make it more bearable and readable. Endless descriptions in a visual medium aren't narrative elements, f.e.


Cragholdt and Lengrath are just endgame power-gaming locations if you will, don't expect any great roleplaying because there isn't none. +

You'd think that very important for the setting NPCs like the archmages would require a more delicate and thoughtful touch, I guess I'm wrong.
 

Roguey

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Why? It's not like he'd be changing the story, just make it more bearable and readable. Endless descriptions in a visual medium aren't narrative elements, f.e.

Any changes they make may inadvertently change any given person's interpretation of the story. Josh doesn't want to come anywhere close to pulling a Blade Runner or a Star Wars.
 

AwesomeButton

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I also don't see any replay value whatsoever, it's soul-crushingly linear and the few branches of reactivity are too few and far between.
I've spent over 100 h with the game, made one completionist playthrough, and if you ask me today, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

It's not entirely true there is nothing good about it - it's so well-balanced and challenging, you know... "as long as you organize your party in this particular way..." :lol:

I had some really great moments in the TWM1 and TWM2 areas. Other than that, nothing really memorable. I wish they had done more with the setting, I find it very interesting. I mean more, as in more than bland combat and chasing after a ghost and a curse which you don't give two shits about.

But to be really fair to PoE, I believe you should hold it up not your ideals, but to BG and IWD (PoE is no match for BGII imo). And if you hold it up to those two, it's not much worse or much better than they are. Played from the perspective and with the knowledge you have today, they have many of the same shortcomings. You have to suspend your disbelief in the unimaginative story, and repress many urges to optimize your behavior (cheese) to avoid breaking the difficulty curve.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
It's not entirely true there is nothing good about it - it's so well-balanced and challenging, you know... "as long as you organize your party in this particular way..." :lol:

I did say that a good game hides under the bullshit, but it's not worth slogging through the entire thing for that. I also wouldn't say PoE is equivalent to the IE games, far, far, faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from that. I've already talked about the differences and why I prefer BG1 over PoE. PoE is ...a product, made with the intention of being one and an attempt to get out of the publishers' shadow. It's not the passion project they they advertised in the Kickstarter. I usually don't give much value to "passion" in regards to creating quality, but I'm saying this because it was made with another ulterior motive. They saw a gap in the market and an opportunity to stop making things like The Stick of Truth or other licensed IPs, so they took it. Do I blame them for that? No, but that doesn't stop me from disliking the thing they made, and for good reasons. I don't think anybody on this forum can say with a straight face that PoE is as analogically good as KotOR2, MotB or New Vegas (even though I despise its gameplay, but that's my problem, I can separate my own preferences and the quality of something), or ever Alpha Protocol. Those games were made with thought and an artist's understanding. PoE was made by a committee and while using a checklist, and as a way to separate themselves from the publishers. Yeah, Josh gave it his all and I'm glad he is on the team, even if he's usually the scapegoat de jour, but he's just one person and can't do everything himself.
 
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