Planescape Torment walkthrough - no longer a virgin

[Haplo]

Ah yes, the charms of playing a wizard in old DnD systems. Interruptions are a thing... and so is manual aiming at moving targets. Later editions, such as DnD 3.0 from NWN use Concentration skill, which is checked upon taking damage and if you pass the check, then you keep casting despite taking damage. But that was much later.
I don't remember spell locations anymore (well, except one... which you're not getting ). But the game should allow you to learn some level 6 spells when advancing to mage level 11 and beyond (you can pick spells below your current max spell level, I think).
Level of caster should refer to level you have in mage class.

And yes, mages will always suck in melee in this game. I don't think they can pick enough proficiences to change that. But why should they ever fight in melee later in the game?

 

[Lord Azlan]

I just see Princess Irulan's commentary...

 

[Neanderthal]

Then what about places like Limbo where even the material is not material? Where matter can be changed?

I reckon even the writers of the game could not really understand the entirety. The more you play the more questions you need to ask. THERE ARE ALWAYS QUESTIONS.

One aspect is your character. For a while I was trying to map out a time line for THO. I think it can't be done. Either it is too complex in scope due to the very large number of lives of TNO or that the writers couldn't and didn't trace back all the references and ensured they made sense.

Dhall has protected your secret, but how old is he? Has he always been the scribe in the Mortuary. If TNO is older would another scribe had been protecting my secret of immortality? The scribe before Dhall?

Sere the Skeptic said Dhall was her instructor. Was he both scribe and instructor or was he promoted? Is TNO or Dhall older? I NEED TO KNOW.

I basically need to know everything. I have a huge appetite for answers.

Did Morte kill the original me or a reincarnation? Did I arrange that as a trap so I could use Morte in the future?
When did I serve in the Blood War?
I want to know everything about the Blood War.
When did I first meet Ravel?
How did seeking immortality help me escape the price of my crimes?
When did I kill my old teacher in the Clerks Ward? What were those languages?
Am I older than the Silent King?
What the heck was that stone wall face of dividing in the Alley of Lingering Sighs?
What was the point of that section. What about that gate and house I couldn't get access to.

A recent one not mentioned in this thread yet, is if there was no way back once entering the prison area of Curst. How did the prisoners escape? WHY DIDN'T I FOLLOW THEM!!

ONE OF THE BIGGER ONES.

AM I ZERTHIMON?

Back to the timeline question.

From the Necromancer's journal in the Mausoleum:

Day 14 of the 127th Year of Factol Hashkar's reign:

After days of taxing divination spells, I finally have my answers. The divination revealed the location of an immortal to be somewhere within an ancient Mausoleum located in the Hive section of Sigil. I must make haste. I must find this creature and draw its blood before it moves on.

Day 14 of the 127th Year of Factol Hashkar's reign.

WE NEED MORE DATES. WHY DO WE HAVE TIME AND NO DATES. WHY DOES MY JOURNAL ONLY SAY DAY 1 and DAY 2 etc. WHAT ABOUT THE DATES?

Does Lord Azlan's play through count as one incarnation or do I +1 every time I die.

Hang on, "Day 14 of the 127th Year of Factol Hashkar's reign" is a fixed point in time and space. I could use it to work out a timeline. Hmmm.

You can visit Limbo an see this in play.
Because o changing nature o reality in Outer Planes an odd anomalies there is no real trustworthy measurement o time, measurin it by how long your factions factol has ruled is as good as any.
Nameless is very, very old.
Finn taught you language o Uyo that your weird journals written in.
Nameless looks nowt like a Gith.
Stone face in Alley were the Alleys face, some parts o Sigil are kinda alive.

 

[Prime Junta]

I only got around to reading Dying Earth this year. It was a disappointment. The coolest thing for me was to come across all those D&D tropes in a book. The stories themselves were nothing much to shout about though, like something a bright, somewhat horny 13-year-old would come up with.

 

[Lord Azlan]

Curst? It's gone.

I wont be the lonely one
Sitting on my own and sad
A fifty year old
Reminiscing what I had
I wont be the lonely one
Sitting on my own and sad
Forget your dad, he's gone

 

[Lord Azlan]

FIRST

 

[Neanderthal]

WEAPON PROFICIENCY

So, I played most of the game as a mage and totally ignored weapon proficiency. I don't know what it does but I am assuming it is important for any melee character, INCLUDING A MAGE.

So information below for anyone that is off the same Intelligence level as I and would benefit from reading the manual of knowing this info.

The Nameless One must begin as a Fighter, but can learn the ways of other character classes, change classes and train in weapon skills by speaking with significant practitioners of those classes' arts. He can also use Proficiency points to gain skill in weapon types with Trainers.

A character's skills with a particular weapon type are called proficiency, and can be increased by Trainers, using the character's stock of proficiency points, which are shown only by asterisks * on the character chart. A maximum of nine proficiency points is given, enough for the maximum of five in one weapon (with double specialization as a fighter) and four in another. Their bonuses are shown below.

Attack speed is a major bonus gained by weapon specialization and using proficiency points

Attack speed

There is no such thing as Damage per Second in Torment. Weapon speed is no more than a slight tactical advantage, giving the final attack at the end of combat before other damaging blows to the fastest weapon user. Other tactical considerations are equivocal, i.e. if one is damaged earlier, then using healing items in time might be more difficult, or it might be better to get those attacks and the subsequent healing out of the way so that commands can be issued for the next sequence of attacks. The point being, that the following bonuses DO affect attack speed, in that they give EXTRA attacks.

The below effects stack with specialization bonuses for a maximum of three attacks per round

Weapons that have been trained to their second ** level gives an extra half an attack, i.e., every second round, TNO gets an extra attack. Weapons that have been trained to their fifth ***** level get an identical bonus, for a total of two attacks per round.

Fighter seventh level or first specialization gives an extra half an attack. Thirteenth level or second specialization gets an identical bonus, for a total of two attacks per round.

At the end of the game then

TNO Attacks per round 1.5
Morte Attacks per round 3
Dakkon Attacks per round 2
Vhailor Attacks per round 2.5

I am not sure if I can train my companions to become more proficient but I reckon TNO could have been better? Or would I have to be a fighter as well?

Your mates gain an spend proficiency in their chosen weapon type as they gain levels, look on Mortes character sheet an he'll have around five points in fists (well teeth) by now, an remember a 3rd lvl Fighter like Nameless starts wi five points (two o which are spent on fist an edged) gains one from severed eyeball in smoulderin corpse, an gains another every three levels. At 21st lvl I had ten points to spend an could max both fist an edged an put two in a third weapon. Thieves have pound for pound best weapons all game long.

 

[Lord Azlan]

My top five locations

 

[Gerrard]

I think I would have preferred a turn based approach like they did in D:OS. I think the magic combat in PST would have been completely awesome. I say this because I just can't believe how much effort the developers put into the visual effects of various spells. It is competent stuff and a shame then when magic can't be used properly. One thing THEY DON'T DO ANYMORE IN RPG, in relation to that other thread by felipepepe, is memorizing spells.

That crap is so 1980s. I think I hate it. Might be true to D&D. Pools of Radiance and Eye of the Beholder and a bunch of games had all that crap. I think it really limits PST. Dungeon Master, which has always been the SUPERIOR CRAWLER did not limit magic in this way. Magic was limited by your mana pool.

Vancian casting is one of the best things ever for cRPGs. It forces you to manage your resources strategically: which spends less resources, casting a spell or taking more damage since you didn't cast it?

tl;dr play better

Or, put another way: PS:T is pretty easy if you've played some of the other IE games, notably IWD and/or BG2. If it's your first dip into the IE games or RTwP DnD in general it's... well, challenging and confusing.

D&D spell memorization is the dumbest fucking system ever designed. If they had a single pool for all of them and each spell would take a specific amount of space based on level it would be passable, but having a fixed amount per level just because is absolutely nonsensical.

No, fuck you.

 

[Lord Azlan]

Wha

 

[Lord Azlan]

What do I do?

 

[Haplo]

What I like a lot about this game is this thing called C&C.
Some that I have been wondering about:

• What would the metallic cube have done to me?

You've finished the game, so I guess there is no harm spoiling this.
You'd have visited another plane... actually a training construct.
A Maze you can eventually reset and alter the difficulty for. One of the best grinding spots in the game, providing valuable loot as well.
With an opportunity to recruit another unique party member.
And to find... this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKZZEPoVb4c

One other thing you've missed (but due to game stability issues, if I remember correctly) was the toughest fight in the game with a demon at Cursed ruins.... a demon originating from a certain box you were supposed to deliver. The demon posses one of the nicest artifacts in the game.

 

[Haplo]

Anyway I wonder about your thoughts about the ending.
Hope you had the Bronze Sphere, as I don't think you have confirmed this before.

 

[Prime Junta]

• What would have happened if I sold one of my party to slavery.

• What would have happened if I joined a different faction like the Anarchists or Dustmen.

• Was there any other use for the Tome of Bone and Ash?

• How far down the rabbit hole would the Grimoire of Pestilential Thought have taken me?

• What would the metallic cube have done to me?

I won't spoil any of this, except to say that you did miss out by not playing with the metallic cube... and that yeah, you will have a few surprises left if you play again and choose a different path.

 

[Lord Azlan]

The ending, or my ending, was a strange little thing.

 

[Lord Azlan]

• What would have happened if I sold one of my party to slavery.

• What would have happened if I joined a different faction like the Anarchists or Dustmen.

• Was there any other use for the Tome of Bone and Ash?

• How far down the rabbit hole would the Grimoire of Pestilential Thought have taken me?

• What would the metallic cube have done to me?

I won't spoil any of this, except to say that you did miss out by not playing with the metallic cube... and that yeah, you will have a few surprises left if you play again and choose a different path.

Thanks for the info.

Do you know how different is a fighter path from the mage with a high WIS and INT?

Do other things come into play due to possibly high ST and CON or do things just disappear?

Do you miss a lot of the back story, info and memories or do these things come to you in different ways?

Thanks

 

[Prime Junta]

Do you know how different is a fighter path from the mage with a high WIS and INT?

Lower WIS, INT, and CHA will only mean you'll miss out on stuff. The gameplay in the fights will be different. Other than that, not all that much difference; a few bits and pieces here and there. If you want to go with a second playthrough, I would suggest a fighter, but keeping high WIS and INT at least -- it's entirely feasible. You might want to consult a character build guide for that though.

Do other things come into play due to possibly high ST and CON or do things just disappear?

Nothing major.

Do you miss a lot of the back story, info and memories or do these things come to you in different ways?

If you have low WIS, INT, and CHA then you'll just miss out on stuff. That's IMO the biggest "flaw" of PS:T -- to fully experience it, you need a particular stat spread. It's not like Fallout where a dumb brute and sliver-tongued intellectual will have different but satisfying experiences. With PS:T it's more in the kind of Nameless One you want to play: you went out of your way to be good; if you go out of your way to be... practical, it won't feel the same. You might end up hating yourself though.

When I revisit the game nowadays, I usually make full use of TNO's unique capability to switch classes on the fly. Because of AD&D's geometric XP progression you can rack up lots of levels in all classes while falling only, say, a level or two behind in your "primary." I usually make fighter or magic-user the primary class and thief the supporting one.

 

[Prime Junta]

I am assuming most people got the same ending.

I found it incredibly satisfying. Not just the ending but whole whole Fortress section.

Satisfying. It just felt so right and so complete.

And what is strange is I feel a bit taller. More confident. Like I have been through a trial and come through it stronger.

Actually, it's a bit like some strange religious experience. Or someone being able to see colours for the first time.

Let's give it some time. I just finished it a few days ago so let's get some perspective.

I don't think "most people" would get that ending, if it's the one I think you got. Only people who gave it as much thought as you did. I thought you would like it though -- not everybody does, but I can't think of any ending in any game that has felt as right as that one.

That ending communicates what transcendence or enlightenment or liberation or any of the other cheap words are slapped on it means better than any book I've read, any dharma talk I've listened to. I wonder if Chris Avellone was familiar with the bodhisattva Ksitigarbha (or Jizo, as he's known in Japan) and was influenced by him, because Planescape: Torment – all of it, all of the Nameless One's lives, leading to that ending – could be a re-telling of that story. So yeah, it has affected me too in the same way experiences that are sometimes dubbed "religious" have.

(Which makes this whole notion of a "spiritual successor to Planescape: Torment" seem pretty tawdry frankly. I've little doubt that T:ToN will be a fine game, but not like this.)

 

[Neanderthal]

Do you know how different is a fighter path from the mage with a high WIS and INT?

Do other things come into play due to possibly high ST and CON or do things just disappear?

Do you miss a lot of the back story, info and memories or do these things come to you in different ways?

Thanks

You don't miss too much so long as you play it smart, for instance CHA you can use Friends spell or two to boost an then change class back to Fighter for convo, wi middlin INT an WIS you'll just take a bit more time unlockin things like Circle o Zerthimon an eventually have supernatural amounts o both. Startin wi 18 in both is excessive an wasteful to be honest.

High STR you make a good threatener, low CHA an you'll be treated how you look. You want at least 13 DEX to start for snappin necks an spottin pickpockets, 14 CON so that you get full 30 hp of a 3rd lvl Fighter, an your STR needs to be at 18 (not percentile) when you reach 6th lvl so that upon specialising as a Fighter at 7th the +1 STR you gain will boost you straight to 19. Double spec as a Fighter 12th lvl will get you +1 STR an CON, you can get two tears to boost CON by 1 each if you're LG an learn the axe from Vhailor gor up to +3 STR an damage. Shit loads o other stat boosts around so invest as you fancy.

In my opinion Torment is far better as a scrapper, I fuckin love carvin me way through Sigil as a bad arse, an combat becomes pretty bloody enjoyable.

 

[Haplo]

Can yer Scrapper do this, though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJyUQ7zarS8

Or that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKZZEPoVb4c

Or, you know, fire 12 volleys of Ballista fire from a single level 1 Missile of Patience spell?

 

[Neanderthal]

Yep. After goin through most o game as a scrapper I still paid attention to other two classes, an after reachin 18 as a Fighter I could switch to Magic User for last part o game an get to 18th lvl (an castin big arse spells) again wi use o Modron Cube an massive amiunt o XP you get for goin to Fortress of Regrets.

 

[Lord Azlan]

Can yer Scrapper do this, though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJyUQ7zarS8

Or that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKZZEPoVb4c

Or, you know, fire 12 volleys of Ballista fire from a single level 1 Missile of Patience spell?

WTF is going on here - seems like I missed half the game - and WOW.

I would even say these are fake videos but I know better. Just WOW

 

[Haplo]

Yep. After goin through most o game as a scrapper I still paid attention to other two classes, an after reachin 18 as a Fighter I could switch to Magic User for last part o game an get to 18th lvl (an castin big arse spells) again wi use o Modron Cube an massive amiunt o XP you get for goin to Fortress of Regrets.

Lol, fair enough. But then you get to use them only once after the Bronze Sphere xp dump. Not that you get many opportunities to use Celestial Host otherwise... or Rune of Torment for that matter.

Lord Azlan: Did you use the Rune at least?

 

[Lord Azlan]

Yep. After goin through most o game as a scrapper I still paid attention to other two classes, an after reachin 18 as a Fighter I could switch to Magic User for last part o game an get to 18th lvl (an castin big arse spells) again wi use o Modron Cube an massive amiunt o XP you get for goin to Fortress of Regrets.

Lol, fair enough. But then you get to use them only once after the Bronze Sphere xp dump. Not that you get many opportunities to use Celestial Host otherwise... or Rune of Torment for that matter.

Lord Azlan: Did you use the Rune at least?

Crap - I hang my head in shame. Nope. I. Did. Not.

I was wondering for a while why you get Vhailor as a companion very late and then why you get such a XP boost at the end, but now I am assuming there is a way back from the Fortress.

P.S. Just figured it out now - AWESOME DAMN HELL. Reminds me a lot of some of the anime stuff.

 

[Haplo]

Yeah, why some people call PS: T a jrpg