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Prosper POLL: What type of fag are you?

What type of fag are you? (can choose up to 3)

  • Combatfag.

    Votes: 204 41.6%
  • Explorationfag.

    Votes: 256 52.2%
  • Storyfag.

    Votes: 259 52.9%
  • Systemsfag.

    Votes: 193 39.4%
  • CNCfag.

    Votes: 158 32.2%
  • Moment to moment gameplay feelz fag

    Votes: 59 12.0%
  • Just a plain and simple fag.

    Votes: 52 10.6%

  • Total voters
    490

SniperHF

Arcane
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Messages
1,110
Seems like with the results on the explorationfag option that this is a massively under-served market in major kickstarter rpgs.

What does " Moment to moment gameplay feelz fag" mean?

It's that feelz when you first explode a pig rat in Fallout after getting the SMG.
 

A_Leftist_Pig?

Scholar
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
206
What does " Moment to moment gameplay feelz fag" mean?

I think I'm more of a worldbuilding fag. I'm pretty forgiving towards stupid or silly settings as long as they are consistent with their own rules within it and have actual logic and common sense behind them, without the elements that simply exist for the cool or wow! factor.


It's like you're the type of fag that can enjoy different things if done right and if you're in the right mood.
 

BelisariuS.F

Augur
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
388
I'm mostly a settingfag, a questfag and a storyfag. In order for an RPG to interest me and give me motivation to play it it has to have at least one of those elements: unique setting that I want to discover and learn about, setting that oozes atmosphere; interesting quests that offer multiple ways of solving them or present an interesting story; an interesting main story. I'm also a combatfag, but my combatfaginess is satisfied by strategy games.
 

naossano

Cipher
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
1,232
Location
Marseilles, France
Well, let's mostly consider RPG. If not, well you might include many factors that are not is some other games that you might like.
You can play strategy games, plateformers, tower defense or other games that have next to zero story and are still fun because of the system, the art, the gameplay or the whole package.

RPG, on the other hand, have you spend quite some time (even short RPG are long compared to some other games) in it, being immersed in a gameworld, interact with people and maybe dwelve into politics.

It cannot escape having some kind of writting. That writting can be the plot, the side quests, the dialogs, the setting, the visual writting, the consistency, etc...
If that writting sucks, and sucks hard, you can't help to wonder why the hell you are bothering with helping those people, accomplishing those tasks, walking in those street.
Even if the gameplay is good, too bad writting will prevent you to fully enjoy it. On the other hand, if the gameplay is minimal but the story beyond awesome, you might not consider the game as a masterpiece, but you will certainly want to play it through the end. So, i guess i am mostly a storyfag.

Next, i would say C & C. Even if you only play the game once, an RPG, or even a game that have good C & C will emphasis a lot more, not only on the player agency, but also on one of the very aspect that set the game apart from a book/movie/song/etc... As an interactive medium, games are supposed to put you, as a gamer, at the forefront of the experience, by not only make you participate, but by making your input a central aspect in how the story is unfold. I might be pretty naïve, but my conception of a modern video game in general, and especially RPG is to enhance the amount, the depth, and the free flow of C & C (never lampshade those, just make them). I don't think that C & C should be an exclusive RPG/Obsidian/RPG Codex territoy, but something any develloper should thrive for. Sadly, we are still trapped into the territory of primitive corridor-y FPS or big bland landscapte gameworld.. C & C shouldn't be hardcore or old-school, but the future. Otherwise, you might just watch a good movie/TV Show. Also, as long as those games lack C & C and emphasis on hand-holding, it is detrimental to the immersion, as the game refusing to aknowledge your previous action, you feel like you are outside of the narrative.

About exploration, i cannot choose it as i doubt i share the same definition as others. For most people i read, exploration seems the ability to copy-past a bigger and bigger number of generic landscape. The gameworld is 1000 miles/kilometer big, so it must have a lot of exploration. If it is what exploration means, i must say i hate exploration. I don't see the point of having tons of miles/kilometers to walk/drive/teleport into if there is nothing valuable in it. On the other hand, i consider i spent a lot of time exploring gameworld, when those were content-heavy, and quite smaller. The time i spent in Vizima, New Reno or Vault City IS exploration, IMO. The maps might not be that big, but there is ton of contents in it. You can spend dozen of hours walking the streets, talking to npc, learning things about them from other sources, be acquainted with the politics, the power struggles, the daily life of the location and its surrounding, doing quests, making choices between various entities, slowly taking a pro-active role in this envirronnement. You don't dwelve into an empty landscape full of generic critters, but into the customs, rules, issues and daily life of a living world, and the work of some talented creators. When the game succeed in putting enough depth into that world, without harrassing you with tons of useless fillers, then i can say that there is good exploration. But sadly, games that offer that are pretty rare IMO, so if i would get to choose only those who provide that, i wouldn't play much. There is also another aspect that i can consider exploration, is discovering non-obvious things, that are easy to miss by most players and be rewarded for it. You had an active role in scratching everything to get to the hidden gem everyone else missed. Sadly, that aspect is also rarelly present. I recently played WL1 and started WL2 and i was pleasantly surprised by the amount of hidden content. But if you really want to get those things, you need to play with a completionist mindset. Unfortunately, if you play a game full of filler, a completionist mindset would make those fillers even more destructive of the game, as you would "explore" all the fillers and spend too much time it. So, in the end, looking for exploration might be a doomed attempt in many games.

About combat, i would say that there are few games in which i enjoy the combat, and that i am not crazy on game that are overloaded by combat. Rather than unecessary generic battle at every corner, i would prefer less combat with interesting design, or more way to avoid battle. One of the best aspect of my favourite series, (Fallout) is that you can avoid most of the combat and not miss out much of the content. (at least for Fo1-Fo2-FoNV). But even in games i enjoy combats, they need to put good story/setting with it, otherwise, there is just so much combat you can endure before getting bored. Also, if the combat is playing a significant part of the game, i prefer it not being messy and being able to see each part of it, so i prefer isometric TB or isometric RT, so you actually see what is happening on the battlefield, not just through the eyes of just one of the guys that may be running away because he needs healing. Also, i prefer the combat to mean something. You don't just fight because you have a weapon and a target in front of you, but because you want to survive, because you want to release the country of Arulco, because you want to make become the head of the mob in that 30s city, because you want the Aztech out of the gold mine so your brittish villagers can mine there and get to the Castle Age before the Japanese, or because those yakuza are guarding the macguffin your johnson paid you to get, not just because there are critters on your way during a meaningless travel between metro station 23 and sewer 14, a kind a location you already visited 20 times with nothing special in them. Otherwise, fight should be fun, short and involve some other factors. Anyway, combat is a mean, not an end.

Also, art, graphic & design can add a lot into the game. But it mostly have relevant the first few minutes/hours you get into a location. Afterward, those streets/roads/doors/containers/etc are just tools supposed to be part of the gameplay. As long as they retain their efficiency, they can be from any style/technology/decade. As for the gameplay itself, most of those are category. You often choose a gameplay because of what it allows to do/see, what design it does serve, and how confortable you are with it. If the gameplay get in the way, it might cause some pain, but if the content is worth it, you are most likely to continue. On the other hand, if the gameplay is good but the content poor or generic, you might forget you even started the game and get into something else. Currently, there is an overload of new stuff, and the old stuff is still available. You aren't likely to keep going on something totally uninteresting despite its totally awesome gameplay... Unless that gameplay is one of a kind. Not saying their content is bad, but i would understand someone who keep playing Myth, Commandos or Jagged Alliance 2 despite not loving the setting, the story, the tone, the design and the graphics. There is just no other games to play with that gameplay. As long as there is another game that have the same gameplay but a setting you enjoy more, why bother with the bland clone ?

About the depth of the system, how perception matter compared with stamina, how much the engagement system should be toned down, is making a monk worthy etc... Those aren't things i consider too much on first playthrough, unless my first approach is totally doomed or i want to reach a specific thing. I mostly use them as tools for RP, not judging the depth of those stats efficiency. If i replay it more, i will dwelve more into it as it will mean the possibility of new content, other ways to experience the same game. But the first time, i mostly consider them as general options/tools/flavor, unless i get it straight away. And even after dwelving more into it, i never mix/max, never try to reach the best combination, or make balance study of the classes. On the other hand, i don't get some critics about some game not possible to finish if you made the wrong build. It might be true with some games, but for the most RPG i played, some of which mentioned as requiring to restart the whole game many times for proper build (like Fo1 or WL2), can be finished with a garbage character, as long as you are patient, use your wits, and be ready to overcome challenges or avoid them entirelly by playing around the location geography. As long as it is technically possible to win, no matter if it increase the difficulty, every character is viable. (not "If it is not easy, the character is not viable")
 
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MilesBeyond

Cipher
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
716
System.

To me, a lot of the interest in combat revolves around good system anyway. Are the different character options interesting? Is there good, asymmetrical balance? Actually, I don't know why I ask that because I have yet to play an RPG where it's even remotely the case - 100% of good RPGs are ridiculously unbalanced, and 100% of balanced RPGs end up being bland and too symmetrical. But there's unbalanced and then there's unbalanced, naam sane? There's having one class or race or whatever be better than the others (e.g. spellcasters in basically every RPG that has a magic system), and then there's having a game so unbalanced that certain options are completely unviable and will never be used unless as a deliberate "hard mode" challenge.

In other words, I can forgive a bad combat system if it's in a game that allows me to develop my characters in interesting ways and give them new ways to interact in combat. Example: Arcanum. I don't know if there's ever been an RPG made that has a worse combat system than Arcanum. It's clunky, painful, and dull. And yet I don't really mind all that much, because Arcanum's awesome system means that there are a million and one different ways to fight each battle, and I have fun with that.

Moment to Moment... I dunno, that stuff is like game stability to me. If it's not there at all, then I have no interest in playing the game, but if it is there, it's not going to make the game good. A functional interface and intuitive control scheme are, like, the bare minimum. Thinking something's a good game for doing those well is like thinking you're a good person because you haven't murdered anybody. And yet so many games get it wrong! I blame 3D. I have yet to play a 3D, non-first-person party-based game that didn't handle like a battleship.


Story is hit or miss. The problem with story is that it's probably going to be far and away the most subjective category (I mean, hell, make a thread asking about the quality of writing in basically any RPG and you're going to have people who say it's amazing and people who say its horrific). This means that not only is it going to vary from person to person, but also from situation to situation. It's not an RPG, but Thief is a game where I can swing wildly from "This story is awesome!" to "Ugh, skip the stupid story, I just want to play the game" based entirely on what mood I'm in when I boot it up. To me, a great story makes an awesome game even better, but the lack of a story won't make an awesome game worse. A bad and intrusive story, on the other hand, will make almost any game worse.


The other thing about stories is that most video games are just too long to tell a good one. It's tough to maintain things like dramatic tension when between the revelation that your friend is actually a bad guy and your confrontation of that friend there's ten hours of combat, dungeon-delving, and exploration.
 

Bruma Hobo

Lurker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
2,412
I'm a simulationfag who expects the game to present the player several overlapping mechanics making each adventure unique, instead of the typical pre-scripted choices. Also exploration.
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
627
Location
Seattle, WA
Explorationfag. It's the only reason I'll touch an Elder Scrolls game, though in recent years my love for Dark Souls narrative symbolism, secrets, and puzzles has overgrown it.

I am also somewhat a munchkin. I completely obsess over maxing everything out on each character. Statfag?
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2015
Messages
49
Location
Potatoland
Divinity: Original Sin 2
If it doesn't have a dialogue wheel, it's a game, otherwise it's interactive movie. I prefer games over movies.
If it additionally has meaty, branchy quests with tons of dialogue-flavour, sprinkled with occasional C&C - it's a good game. Bonus for character creation/customization/cosmetics. I played dolls when I was a little girl, what can I say.
If, aside from all that, it allows me to finish it without firing a single shot or fireball and still roleplay a mass-murderer, it's awesome game.
If its combat is both strategic and tactical; difficulty levels are not replaced by hostile's HP bar slider, but involve major AI changes - game is perfection, despite game-breaking bugs.

I couldn't care less about the story, it has to be there but it doesn't have to make sense... the software part, the ractivity of the world is a holy grail for me, be it C&C in major plot points, dialogue, multitude of paths to achieve goal (and reaction to my choice of those paths); Day-night cycles, NPC activities are not a part of that, just background.

I think I'm Systemsfag, but more the AI part of it than mechanics itself... And looking at the state of gaming today, I'm pretty sure I'll never play a perfection.
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
A dream game would satisfy combatfags, explorationfags, systemsfags, storyfags and CNCfags. AoD, for instance, don't satisfy some explorationfags urges because you have to use different backgrounds to explore all the content, but for me is still filled with stuff to explore. Moment to moment gameplay is important, but it is the basic that a good game should have, it is not a specific feature. You should add Atmospherefags or Immersionfags to the list. Players will not acknowledge that, but games such as MotB and VtMB are so fondly remembered because they have great atmosphere.
 

Jools

Eater of Apples
Patron
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
10,652
Location
Mêlée Island
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Insert Title Here Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
If it additionally has meaty, branchy quests with tons of dialogue-flavour, sprinkled with occasional C&C - it's a good game.

I couldn't care less about the story, it has to be there but it doesn't have to make sense...

That sounds contradictory, bro. How can you fuss about quests and dialogue, and then claim you don't give a shit about the story? Are you just happy with randomly written dialogue options and poorly written quests and C&C, as long as they're there?

I mean, I come from the opposite camp, story is everything to me, and really the story is either good or there's no story. Having a shit story to back the game could be much worse than having no story at all, IMHO.
 
Self-Ejected

ZodoZ

Self-Ejected
Patron
Joined
Nov 6, 2013
Messages
798
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Combat is king but isn't satisfying combat the result of well thought out system?
DnD based games are based on a proven PnP system and almost any game that uses that system will have decent combat unless the designers totally screw up. Without system is there good combat? Or rather, without good system can there be good combat?

Story has never been important enough to hold my interest as forcefully as I see others "getting in to the story/history/NPCs"
Dark Souls has very little explicit story for example and that game captured my imagination as much as any written story elements.
The Elder Scrolls games have so much story and background yet maybe too much.
Exploration is actually the game isn't it? I don't often find interest in unlocking an obscure part of a dialog tree controlled by some stat or dice roll because many times that dialog tree will force some situation or possibly alter the entire game irrevocably in a direction that didn't have the right experience I was enjoying thusfar.

CnC: just no
Moment-to-moment: maybe if M-t-M means tweaking your party or character to better suit play style, then yes.
so:
System
Combat
Moment to Moment

I guess

What about Stealth? RPGs that have a heavy stealth option available can totally alter a game..
I always feel dirty using a stealth character but damn a stealthy in TES games can be so much fun and opens up an entirely different game as far as replayability goes.

If story could be woven meaningfully in to the fabric of a game then story would be much more important for me.
 

Cadmus

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
4,264
Combat and atmosphere fag. I don't need a very deep system but I need a system that allows some creativity. I also need something to apply the good combat to, so if the game has an amazingly complex combat system, food system but it's all happening in ASCII graphics or in an excel sheet, I don't care. I don't need story, I just want to relive and even go further as in my favourite adventure movies, books, paintings and stories. It's all the same to me.
 

Lockkaliber

Magister
Patron
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
2,542
Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I've been a storyfag most of my life, in the sense that I have a very hard time getting into a game if I feel that the premise of the story and the writing is as bad as the general standard in the video games industry is. As I've grown older though, this feeling has increased when it comes to combat/game play as well, meaning that if I'm not having fun, or feeling like the gameplay and mechanics are complex enough to challenge me in some way while playing, I can get bored pretty quickly. This has in turn led to me having less and less patience for real time with pause systems, and coming to appreciate well designed turn based combat a lot more.

For example I almost can't get myself to replay BG1 and 2 anymore because the combat just feels like a mess when you constantly think of how good it could have been as turn based.
 

Reapa

Doom Preacher
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
2,340
Location
Germany
detail/depth/c&c, setting/atmosphere, mechanics, interface/ui, story and exploration fag
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2015
Messages
49
Location
Potatoland
Divinity: Original Sin 2
If it additionally has meaty, branchy quests with tons of dialogue-flavour, sprinkled with occasional C&C - it's a good game.

I couldn't care less about the story, it has to be there but it doesn't have to make sense...

That sounds contradictory, bro. How can you fuss about quests and dialogue, and then claim you don't give a shit about the story? Are you just happy with randomly written dialogue options and poorly written quests and C&C, as long as they're there?

I mean, I come from the opposite camp, story is everything to me, and really the story is either good or there's no story. Having a shit story to back the game could be much worse than having no story at all, IMHO.
I'll clarify a bit. Story for me is main campaign, a overall sketch of what will happen, mostly linear events and PC motivation that will lead to some resolution, coherence with setting is important and the setting itself may influence the story.

Quests, in the other hand, are singular entities, detailed elements of the setting - some of them may be story building blocks... And they all have to be meaty, branchy.
Quests have to make sense in the setting, but their tone does not - I don't mind if there is a quest to find a teddy bear for big evil demon as long as it's explained why it has a teddy bear, if it's uncommon for a demon to have a teddy bear in this setting. If it's normal, 's all good - you don't explain normal things, I'm totally fine with it and sometimes even more into it, cuz it's something original, even if it doesn't make sense in relation to similar RPG settings.
 

likaq

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
1,198
What was the reason for moving only my poll to retardoland but not this poll?
Other than ' moderator who did this is a faggot'?
 
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
795
* Combat
* Exploration
* CNC (choices and consequences, right?)

I'd say story and systems are secondary. What matters to me is player skill, I think. -I- like to do things. I don't like being railroaded. However, understanding the systems might be a form of player skill too? Or maybe reading comprehension for stories? Still, as long as I can remember, stories always seem railroad-ish to me. And I don't like systems which're too obscure or cryptiic.

I think that good combat and exploration and C&C mean there's going to be some systems. And typically I want some story too, just not too much. I think I'm a cross between action/adventure gamer and RPGer. I've played diablo-like "RPGs" and have liked them, but I've also played games like Daggerfall/Morrowind and Might and Magic VII. Diablo-like games lack depth, but can still be fun if the dungeon crawling is good. One of the most enjoyable games I've played is Jagged Alliance 2.

Right now I'm playing Baldurs Gate. Recently I played Eschahlon Book I and Fallout and Anachronox. I've played lots of strategy games. I played FPS games. I liked Simcity for a while. I grew up on consoles like nintendo and sega and playstation. Most of those were platformers. I can remember the first time I played Zelda. It was such a magical game. I didn't actually own it, so only got to play it once or twice. It had a exploration aspect to it. The feeling was there could be anything out there in the world if you explored. To my young mind it was like nectar. I love to explore. I think I'm an exploraholic. I loved looking for treasure in Eschalon Book I. The movement speed didn't bother me. I've always liked exploring nooks and crannies. Just want to clarify that I enjoy a lot of things. I'm not just a combatfag or action gamer. Those're a big part of me, but not all of me.

EDIT: Castlevania was another magical game I played when I was a youth. I rented it. :/ In many ways it reminds me of Zelda. Lots of moving around and killing baddies and finding items. Something about them appealed and still appeals. But all in all, most of the games I played on consoles were action-oriented. AS I grew older I started to love racing games.
 
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