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POLL - Which famous codexers should be in the Project Eternity Codex squad?

Which famous codexers should be in the Project Eternity Codex squad?


  • Total voters
    175

DarkUnderlord

Professional Throne Sitter
Staff Member
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28,343
No shit Sherlock, THUS MY COMMENT ON A SENSE OF RELIEF OVER MY EXCLUSION!
Kaiser Sarah von Arts: The Kaiser's NPC model and character sheet clearly identify her as a male,
You seem to have entirely misunderstood, yet again.
No, I assure you, I'm quite sure I didn't. :smug:

I'll be going well out of my way to make sure that doesn't make it into the game.
That sounds like a challenge.

Yes. If you self-identify as a female, what are you doing in the men's room?

I find this very confusing.
It's only confusing if you think that everything I say is absolutely 100% literal and that I'm somehow incapable of anything like being facetious or sarcastic in spite of thousands of examples of my having been just that on these forums. You know, kind of like I toss around the word fag with aplomb, or did you really mistake that for genuine homophobia too? I mean really, where the hell did you ever get the idea that I had autism?
It almost sounds like I'm not allowed to make witty remarks in response to your witty remarks. OR DID YOU THINK I WAS BEING SERIOUS.
 

kazgar

Arcane
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
2,164
Location
Upside Down
Hey guys, I want to discuss the NPC party we're supposedly trying to get into Project: Eternity. Where's the thread for that? Does anyone know? I thought it was this one but this seems to be something about the definition of LARPing.

DU, is it worth shutting down the poll part, or creating a new thread, what little consensus seems to be that using actual forum names or trying to specify actual codexers is a bad idea, and the poll may be conflating the issue somewhat, and becoming some sort of child pageant/popularity contest?



Otherwise there seems to be a split between:

A) Party of archtypes (as implied by Abraxas here or Shannow here)

or

B) A encounter a codexer will be proud of, and leading many other players to ragequite/cheat/complain on gamefaqs. This may have a small codex reference, so the people who were involved will know, but the rest won't be left wondering after they reload for the 15th time. (an example from Wyrmlord here)

Issue with A currently is what archtypes to use, and removing the usernames may make that clearer

Issue with B is not knowing the rules, so hard to generate an encounter of correct difficulty, the information from obsidian is vague currently, though this would be improved once the character sheets exist.

May be a group of people saying "Both!" But I personally think the focus should be on one or the other to start with, and then follow that decision tree with some guidelines.

Edit: Err Finally caught up with the newspost thread on the money drive, err sorry for the positivity, carry on as you'd like DU.
 

Kaiserin

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
4,082
DarkUnderlord

Well whatever, you seem hell bent on being an asshole. Kinda like you were when I donated last time. It blows my mind how you don't see a difference between simply being a dickhead on the internet and taking that over into decisions involving commerce, but I guess it shouldn't considering the rest of my experience here on this planet with human beings at large.

If any reference to me(or trannies at large, the exception being if you refer to SMA herself, in which case that is her cause and her decision) is made then I'll be writing a letter to Obsidian stating that I think it's in poor taste. If it's decided on their part that it's a cool thing to do, well then I guess I'll just have to deal with it. I find all of those comments about 'let us prove them wrong' with regard to the bigotry that this was initially sold on all the more hilarious at that rate though.
 

kris

Arcane
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
8,835
Location
Lulea, Sweden
B) A encounter a codexer will be proud of, and leading many other players to ragequite/cheat/complain on gamefaqs. This may have a small codex reference, so the people who were involved will know, but the rest won't be left wondering after they reload for the 15th time. (an example from Wyrmlord here)

:obviously:

Because it is the right thing to do.
 

Serious_Business

Best Poster on the Codex
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
3,909
Location
Frown Town
Nigs

I'm eating some almonds

that shit is fucking sweet

I can't fucking stop

They give me ultimate power

I'll have gorged 400g of these bastards in one day if I can't stop now

But I can't stop

GETTING BIGGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
Patron
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
37,241
Location
Seattle, WA USA
MCA
:lol: That's really weird. I went to the store earlier and bought some Blue Diamond™ Almonds with the Smokehouse flavor. That shit is DA BOMB.
 

DarkUnderlord

Professional Throne Sitter
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Messages
28,343
Hey guys, I want to discuss the NPC party we're supposedly trying to get into Project: Eternity. Where's the thread for that? Does anyone know? I thought it was this one but this seems to be something about the definition of LARPing.

DU, is it worth shutting down the poll part, or creating a new thread, what little consensus seems to be that using actual forum names or trying to specify actual codexers is a bad idea, and the poll may be conflating the issue somewhat, and becoming some sort of child pageant/popularity contest?
You're just jealous that I'm winning.

Well whatever, you seem hell bent on being an asshole. Kinda like you were when I donated last time. It blows my mind how you don't see a difference between simply being a dickhead on the internet and taking that over into decisions involving commerce, but I guess it shouldn't considering the rest of my experience here on this planet with human beings at large.

If any reference to me(or trannies at large, the exception being if you refer to SMA herself, in which case that is her cause and her decision) is made then I'll be writing a letter to Obsidian stating that I think it's in poor taste. If it's decided on their part that it's a cool thing to do, well then I guess I'll just have to deal with it. I find all of those comments about 'let us prove them wrong' with regard to the bigotry that this was initially sold on all the more hilarious at that rate though.
Why do you hate transgender people? Don't you believe they should have representation in computer games? We already have homosexual relationships - hell even ToEE had one of those - maybe it's time to embrace new differences? You apparently don't have any problem with the reference to Cleve or an issue with the reference to myself either, but have a massive issue when it comes to everything about you.

I'm not exactly certain what your issue is, but you should probably have it looked at. This goes back to your comment that I somehow or another referred to you as "autistic". It seems there are the words you're reading, and then there's how your brain is interpreting them. One of those is not bedded in reality.

... or is this you being facetious and sarcastic?
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Joined
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Copenhagen
Off-topiness is one of the joys of your domain, my lord. You're welcome to split up the threads, but when CK answers my point, I shall answer his. It is the inevitable spiral of dumbfuckery that this place instills in me.

Actually I can see we're both tired of this argument and neither of us will budge, so there's not much reason to continue. Plus, DU is very upset about the original subject of this thread and I don't feel like tempting fate. :M

Don't worry man, I'm staff, I have immun...

DarkUnderlord said:
Banned Grunker.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,205
Location
Ingrija
- Equipping Plate +2 and selling Plate +3 because the latter sells for much more and you can use the gold

That's not larping, that's just stupid. Every game is universally all gold and nothing to spend it at after the first few hours. Moreover, gold comes and goes all the time, and a plate mail +3 may be one of a kind. The rule of thumb is to never sell anything that is not 100% useless to you.

- Equipping Chain +2 and selling Plate +1 (which has better AC) because the character has mediocre strength and Chain is 50% lighter

Larping. Only larpers have mediocre strength :smug:

- Not taking the Dodge feat that gives +1 AC, because Power Attack results in a more effective character (since the game favors offense over defense)

This man is your friend. He is not a larper!

Well, not completely a larper. True non-larper would find a way to have both.

- Not savescumming at a random outcome that has 10% chance of raising your character's AC by one

Raising as in improving? Not larping, but a missed opportunity to mourn, have nightmares about, and eventually a cause to discard 10 days of subsequent progress, reload and try again.

- Savescumming at a random outcome that has 10% chance of lowering your character's AC by one

Lowering as in degrading? Anything that threatens permanent stat draining is an anathema to the very genre of watching the little numbers go up. If you're savescumming yet not sending death threats to the developers, you might still have some larping bacteria inside you.

Everything else, duh, that must be obvious.
 

Kaiserin

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
4,082
Why do you hate transgender people? Don't you believe they should have representation in computer games? We already have homosexual relationships - hell even ToEE had one of those - maybe it's time to embrace new differences? You apparently don't have any problem with the reference to Cleve or an issue with the reference to myself either, but have a massive issue when it comes to everything about you.

I'm not exactly certain what your issue is, but you should probably have it looked at. This goes back to your comment that I somehow or another referred to you as "autistic". It seems there are the words you're reading, and then there's how your brain is interpreting them. One of those is not bedded in reality.

... or is this you being facetious and sarcastic?
You're offering a presentation that makes her appear to be a clown, and on top of that you're going to be referring to her as a man. You've essentially said that you want to depict her as a man in a dress with shaved legs, and here you are feigning a sense of ignorance toward why that's being construed as offensive. You say that you understood clearly that I was requesting not to be involved, and then you intentionally weave me into the clownish representation that I just protested against. If that's not setting out to be a dickhead, I'm not sure what is, and so I'm not at all convinced that I am misinterpreting your message at this point at all.

Don't include me in anything like that, and I personally don't want you to present anything to Obsidian which is yet another sterling example of ridicule leveled toward transgender people. Not that I can stop you from doing the latter directly, but hey I definitely will voice my concern over how we are depicted if it does come to that.

What you're essentially saying, though I suspect you're being just an out and out dickhead rather than actually being genuine, is that transgender people should be happy about the way they are presented in say, Ace Ventura, simply because they were included. It's garbage, and I personally am thoroughly bored with being a clown for you people, thus why I don't offer any endorsement on the use of my image or persona for the purpose of this fundraiser.

As for how you are being depicted, WELL YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WROTE THAT DEPICTION NOW AREN'T YOU? Doesn't it go without saying that you APPROVE of whatever you included there, given that you know, you put it forward? On the topic of Cleve, well that's his baby. If he has an issue with it, he can speak out about it! It's obviously not relevant to me, and I can't comprehend how you find the situation analogous when the differences are obvious.
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
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Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
You're offering a presentation that makes her appear to be a clown, and on top of that you're going to be referring to her as a man. You've essentially said that you want to depict her as a man in a dress with shaved legs

:what:

If this is what's gonna make it into the game, I'll open my wallet.
 

Menckenstein

Lunacy of Caen: Todd Reaver
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Remulak
Here's my proposed encounter party:

Niles the Ranger
Ian the Fighter
Giles (twin) the Wizard
Gilbert (twin) the Sorcerer
Edgar the Bard
Roger the Cleric
Saul the Paladin
 

DarkUnderlord

Professional Throne Sitter
Staff Member
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Messages
28,343
Why do you hate transgender people? Don't you believe they should have representation in computer games? We already have homosexual relationships - hell even ToEE had one of those - maybe it's time to embrace new differences? You apparently don't have any problem with the reference to Cleve or an issue with the reference to myself either, but have a massive issue when it comes to everything about you.

I'm not exactly certain what your issue is, but you should probably have it looked at. This goes back to your comment that I somehow or another referred to you as "autistic". It seems there are the words you're reading, and then there's how your brain is interpreting them. One of those is not bedded in reality.

... or is this you being facetious and sarcastic?
You're offering a presentation that makes her appear to be a clown
If you believe that a male character model for a character that self-identifies as female and wears women's clothing makes them "appear to be a clown" then that's your perspective.

, and on top of that you're going to be referring to her as a man.
Other than the character model and character sheet, no. There was the "bowman" reference but given the issues transgender people face every day with being identified as the gender they're trying not to be, I don't think that's an entirely invalid reference or "mistake" that someone might make.

You've essentially said that you want to depict her as a man in a dress with shaved legs, and here you are feigning a sense of ignorance toward why that's being construed as offensive.
At issue here is the disconnect between:

a) How a trans-gender person perceives themselves,
b) how they wish to be perceived and;
c) how everyone else perceives them.

In this case, "Lady Sarah" is clearly identifying herself as female. She's wearing a dress which is also a female identifier. As dresses usually allow others to see the legs, we indicate that the legs are shaved. Again, another female identifier. There is the potential that she may simply be perceived as a cross-dresser, something which the name and the legs attempt to alleviate. IE: She is clearly trying to present as female by doing feminine things. There's also the possibility she may be a Drag Queen but we're hopefully avoiding that by not saying, for example, that she's wearing a blonde wig and heavy make-up.

So in this instance, we can assume that Sarah perceives herself as female and wishes to be perceived as a female.

Except now we run into the disconnect in that she's "not" - or at least wasn't born that way (I don't want to get into whether she's post-op or pre-op). Now the entire issue of trans-genderism is the struggle for people who are one thing, to try and appear to be another. Some pull that off more easily than others ("How others perceive them" - things that play into this perception include: breasts, penis, Adam's apple, sound of their voice, physical build of their body and what they're wearing - all the things that make us determine whether someone is "male" or "female"). These are real issues which transgender individuals encounter everyday.

Given this is a game and the entire point of this character is to portray a trans-gender individual, we at some point need to make it clear to the player that this person, is in fact a trans-gender individual. There are a two ways I see of going about this:

1. We have an entirely female model, with nothing to "arouse suspicion" and we address it entirely in dialogue. The issue with this option is how we get that across. It's unlikely of Sarah to say "So, did you know I was born a man?" as it's unlikely an issue she'd bring up in random conversation. The other possibility is to learn it from someone else who knows the character, such as running into someone who used to date her before (or even after) she transitioned, or someone who grew up with her (for instance, you could meet her father who constantly refers to his "son" - something that is reasonably common with transgenderism). However, the player will never get a chance to meet anyone else to have this conversation - given we are designing just this short encounter.

Given it's an issue Sarah herself wouldn't bring up, it's unlikely any of the other characters travelling with her would bring it up either - if they did, it would end up becoming a HUGE issue during the encounter with Sarah becoming the central character, gaining a lot of unwanted attention, and eating into the time available to outlay the background of the rest of the characters. My preference is also to not have it as an issue that's mentioned in conversation at all. That, quite literally, all you meet is a "male character model" that identifies as female and tells you about (some) of her past - because that's what normal human beings do when they run into people.

2. We use a male character model, and yet refer to Sarah as "her" and never raise it as an issue at all. The player will be able to look and perhaps see "You see: Sarah. She has nice shaved legs." and will be able to identify it as a male character model (if they can in some way access the character sheet) but it's not something that comes up at all. And at this point we might say "Tell me about your bowman." which one of the characters corrects as "Bow-woman" and moves on - without batting an eyelid.

All I had in the original "Sarah's NPC model and character sheet clearly identify her as a male, but she is wearing a female's outfit - and has shaved legs." This is what you derided as "entirely unoriginal and derivative". But as I said, if you believe someone who has the physical characteristics of a male (physical body build, sexual organs, adam's apple, deep voice) and yet is wearing a dress and identifies as a female - is "a clown", then I'd argue the issue is with your own perception.

As for how you are being depicted, WELL YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WROTE THAT DEPICTION NOW AREN'T YOU?
All right, so design a transgender character that you would be happy with.
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
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Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
All right, so design a transgender character that you would be happy with.
More_poisoned__III_by_framboesa_mar.jpg


Originally conceived as a female thug in Final Fight and part of the game's antagonist group, Mad Gear, concerns during the game's development about reactions from North American audiences to fighting women, resulted in the character being redesigned as a newhalf. When further concerns were brought up by a playtester for the Super Nintendo's North American localization, Akira Yasuda pointed out that the characters were actually transvestites.
 

CrustyBot

Arcane
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Messages
814
Codex 2012
:what:


Anyways, here's a couple of character ideas for the Codex Diversity Squad encounter:

- Maximus (mondblut/min-maxers) - Paladin/Warrior
A heavily armed ex-Paladin turn Bandit of fearsome repute. Cast out from society and considered to have no redeeming qualities, he was quickly forced to adapt to the "survival of the fittest" mentality. As a result, his physical attributes are amongst the highest of the human race. His equipment too, has power far beyond what can be normally obtained. However, his Plate Armor is completely coated in bright pink paint and his large kite shield carries a pink tulip flower emblem.

- Eloma Apop (popamole apologist) - Rogue/Mage
An ugly looking teenager, he was born hideously deformed and was abandoned by his parents while still a child. Utilising a unique magical power to keep himself alive, Eloma Apop was able to survive through begging and feeding off the scraps of others. However, the lack of genuine human contact meant that his brain never matured beyond that of a juvenile, although it's possible that Eloma simply suffers from retardation.

The newest member of the Codex group, he isn't well liked by the other Codexers due to his inability to complete simple tasks or partake in basic conversation. He is kept around by as a reminder to the rest of the group of what they could become, lest they fail in their quest and their fracturing souls causes them to decline further into the darkness in their next incarnation.

Eloma Apop is a weak little enemy, suffering both physical and mental deficiencies. But he has the unique ability to create magical copies of himself and multiply in number. Uses a dagger that has a Hydra attached to the hilt, symbolizing that when you cut off the head of Eloma Apop, two Eloma Apops take it's place.

- "Golem" (Prosper) - Monster
A golem with a mind of it's own, the group neither knows nor cares if it's sentience indicates that it has a soul or not. It tries to communicate it's esoteric concepts to the rest of the group and anyone who would listen. But isn't able to do so in a way that others can understand. As a result, no one takes it seriously, and no one ever will. Completely immune to normal weapons, as the bounds of it's imagination, insight and reality are not bound to the restrictions of the mundane world. On death, it drops a "helmet" called "The Face That Never Remembered", granting the user an enormous resistance (not immunity) to normal weapons, but completely cripples their CHARISMA/Speech stats.

I'm still thinking that "a group of heavily fractured souls at the tipping point of sanity and past memories of majesty" is a good premise. Could have the encounter in the ruins of an ancient city. The group could be led by a DU/Saint/VD type who have been on a year long quest to find the "Grimoire of Decadence" to heal their fractured souls.

The player and co. could choose to help the group if they pass the corresponding speech/Codex lore checks, otherwise the Codex group attacks the party.

Progressing through the ruins, they eventually find what they are looking for. DU/Saint/VD grabs the Grimoire, then destroys it.

"You don't deserve to be healed, you degenerates. Neither do I. Let's step into Oblivion, together."

Seeing their final hope for salvation extinguished, the Codex group loses the last of what remained of their sanity.

Everybody goes nuts and attacks each other (including you). Because no matter what happens, you cannot completely avoid combat with the Codex.

:greatjob:
 

Kaiserin

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
4,082
If you believe that a male character model for a character that self-identifies as female and wears women's clothing makes them "appear to be a clown" then that's your perspective.
So you mean to say that I'm just entirely off base in making the assumption that other people view such a thing with ridicule?

I'm sorry, but I've been around long enough to know that people find the idea appalling and worthy of a laugh. The fact that I am aware of the attitudes of others does not mean that I have internalized that attitude. Even if I assume that you've put forward this idea for entirely different reasons than every other time it's been brought up in media, it's still hinging on a sense of shock value over this person's gender variance. Her entire character has been reduced to her transgenderism, and nickname. All that we are conveyed through this depiction is that she is transgender, has done modeling out of desperation, and goes by the handle of SMA. Compared to the character of The Cleaver, this is a hollow and meaningless depiction by comparison.

SMA in reality is a very scholarly person who has a lot of knowledge about a lot of things, and here we're seeing a transgender archer who's done some nude modeling as the embodiment of everything she's posted here, and again with regard to your 'inclusion' of myself, we simply see references to my nickname and the fact that I'm transgender.


Other than the character model and character sheet, no.
Yeah, it's not like those things stand as essential or definitive within the context of CRPGs, those are just incidentally mentioning that she's male, it doesn't hold any more weight or gravity to list it on her character sheet than it would for somebody to whisper it in a text bubble.

We both know that's bullshit, because the character sheet is like going back behind the curtain and telling us 'how it really is,' and here you seem to be taking the two most essential and iconic manifestations of the character, visual representation and stats, and using those to indicate that she's male.
There was the "bowman" reference but given the issues transgender people face every day with being identified as the gender they're trying not to be, I don't think that's an entirely invalid reference or "mistake" that someone might make.
Again, her entire character is about being transgender. She's a token, you're explicitly including this information simply because it's relevant to her being transgender. I don't think that in and of itself justifies the inclusion of misgendering her, especially given that we aren't given any sort of insight into how it makes her feel or how it influences her life. From the perspective of the player, and not the person who designed the encounter, we're just seeing another example of a transgender person who isn't where they want to be yet, and indeed I'm saying that seems to be the only way that anyone wants to depict us.

In this case, "Lady Sarah" is clearly identifying herself as female. She's wearing a dress which is also a female identifier. As dresses usually allow others to see the legs, we indicate that the legs are shaved. Again, another female identifier. There is the potential that she may simply be perceived as a cross-dresser, something which the name and the legs attempt to alleviate. IE: She is clearly trying to present as female by doing feminine things. There's also the possibility she may be a Drag Queen but we're hopefully avoiding that by not saying, for example, that she's wearing a blonde wig and heavy make-up.
You seem to have a tremendous amount of faith in the ability of the audience to sense these nuances and interpret them appropriately. I think that the distinctions you're citing, even if I allow my guard to slip and assume they are well intended, will be entirely overshadowed by the alread extant attitudes of the viewer.
Except now we run into the disconnect in that she's "not" - or at least wasn't born that way (I don't want to get into whether she's post-op or pre-op).
So let's go for the quickest, easiest, and most well trod route to demonstrating it.

Not that I even agree with what follows:
Now the entire issue of trans-genderism is the struggle for people who are one thing, to try and appear to be another.
See, this just isn't how I would described 'the entire issue of transgenderism,' as a transgender person that is. I strongly doubt that any transgender person would describe 'the entire issue of transgenderism' in such a way.

For one, we're talking about *gender,* not *sex*, so from that angle it's possible that somebody *is* what they are 'trying to be.' While somebody's biological birth sex is immutable, how they are perceived by society can and does change, and while these two things do not always line up, the fact that they don't line up for some people is not essential to the struggle of all transgender people. There are transgender people who effectively function within society as the gender they present, not the gender they transitioned from.

Some pull that off more easily than others ("How others perceive them" - things that play into this perception include: breasts, penis, Adam's apple, sound of their voice, physical build of their body and what they're wearing - all the things that make us determine whether someone is "male" or "female").
How others perceive them is central to the issue of 'gender,' and while not wholly definitive of it, when one perceives themselves as female gendered and all of the people around them similar perceive them that way, they are functionally female gender for all intents and purposes so long as those perceptions stand.
You've been a bit more civil with this post and put me off my guard, but I have to wonder if tidbits such as this are truly intended to be informative rather than simply inflaming. As you know, it's rather frustrating to be reminded as a transgender person by somebody who isn't transgender what transgender people encounter. Honestly, I'm not sure what would be more insulting, if you think that you know more about the experience of transgender people than I do, or if you were just trying to deconstruct my viewpoint

Given this is a game and the entire point of this character is to portray a trans-gender individual, we at some point need to make it clear to the player that this person, is in fact a trans-gender individual.
Maybe that's the problem? Why is it important that we include a transgender person? That doesn't seem to fit any sort of vibe that the rest of the party has going on. I don't see how it overlaps with any of the other characters. The inclusion of a transgender person seems arbitrary when we look at the bases on which the other characters are included.

I mean, just why were the other guys included? Let's investigate that:

St. Proverbius - 'Cool dude,' seems to be held up as an example of something that was lost in the decline. We see references to his staff position and use of the banhammer. A tenuous but fair connection to his forum persona.
Cleve - Epic lolcow who has written thread upon thread of scientology style science fiction narratives. We see too many references to count, all from divergent threads, honestly the best designed character of the bunch imo.
Andhaira - Troll who spawned the rat diplomacy meme.
Vault Dweller - Another 'cool dude' who represents some sort of erudition that's been lost.

So why is a tranny the best fit here again? I'm honestly not even sure how we're all that indicative of codex culture at large. Why not include one of your little internet detectives instead? There seems to be a rather strong culture for that around here.
1. We have an entirely female model, with nothing to "arouse suspicion" and we address it entirely in dialogue. The issue with this option is how we get that across. It's unlikely of Sarah to say "So, did you know I was born a man?" as it's unlikely an issue she'd bring up in random conversation. The other possibility is to learn it from someone else who knows the character, such as running into someone who used to date her before (or even after) she transitioned, or someone who grew up with her (for instance, you could meet her father who constantly refers to his "son" - something that is reasonably common with transgenderism). However, the player will never get a chance to meet anyone else to have this conversation - given we are designing just this short encounter.

Given it's an issue Sarah herself wouldn't bring up, it's unlikely any of the other characters travelling with her would bring it up either - if they did, it would end up becoming a HUGE issue during the encounter with Sarah becoming the central character, gaining a lot of unwanted attention, and eating into the time available to outlay the background of the rest of the characters. My preference is also to not have it as an issue that's mentioned in conversation at all. That, quite literally, all you meet is a "male character model" that identifies as female and tells you about (some) of her past - because that's what normal human beings do when they run into people.

2. We use a male character model, and yet refer to Sarah as "her" and never raise it as an issue at all. The player will be able to look and perhaps see "You see: Sarah. She has nice shaved legs." and will be able to identify it as a male character model (if they can in some way access the character sheet) but it's not something that comes up at all. And at this point we might say "Tell me about your bowman." which one of the characters corrects as "Bow-woman" and moves on - without batting an eyelid.
All of that is fair enough, but again without any sort of context I just don't see how having us is 'worth it.'

Again though, the fact of the matter is that you are rendering SMA. If you render SMA and don't make any mention of me, then I am forced to bite my tongue and bear whatever insensitive portrayal you come up with. Because I say with complete sincerity that I don't feel it's my place to decide whether or not SMA makes it into the Codex's referential circlejerk. I only commented to begin with because I was glad that I was being left out given how it looks like she's going to be included.

However, if you mention myself, or it becomes a 'generic tranny,' then I have a personal stake in this issue. While I'm fully aware that I've made a buffoon out of myself here in the past, I've had my fill of playing the fool for the Codex.

All I had in the original "Sarah's NPC model and character sheet clearly identify her as a male, but she is wearing a female's outfit - and has shaved legs." This is what you derided as "entirely unoriginal and derivative". But as I said, if you believe someone who has the physical characteristics of a male (physical body build, sexual organs, adam's apple, deep voice) and yet is wearing a dress and identifies as a female - is "a clown", then I'd argue the issue is with your own perception.
Again, there is being aware of how others think, and while you might try to browbeat me by saying that I'm simply assuming others think that way, I know damned well that most people do not see that as a positive image, and my simply being aware of this does not mean that I have internalized that bigotry and sense of revulsion.
All right, so design a transgender character that you would be happy with.
I will if we make it so far as $3000 dollars. :roll:
 

aris

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
11,613
Why the fuck hasn't prosper received 100% of the votes??
:x
 

aris

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
11,613
You're just butthurt that you only got 7.2% of the votes.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,232
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Again, there is being aware of how others think, and while you might try to browbeat me by saying that I'm simply assuming others think that way, I know damned well that most people do not see that as a positive image, and my simply being aware of this does not mean that I have internalized that bigotry and sense of revulsion.

What the heck does this even mean?

Sounds to me like you're just angry at the Codex for having this "tranny meme" in the first place. The idea of putting a tranny in Obsidian's game is just a convenient excuse to complain about it.
 

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