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Portraits?

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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28,024
While we are working day and night ensuring that the combat system suckage doesn't exceed 80%, some guy decided to draw some portraits for us. I have my reservations (a lot of reservations, in fact), but what do you all think?

assassinvk8.jpg
soldierzf5.jpg
 

stargelman

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They really aren't that bad, I guess.

I have to wonder if you really need those in a single player, single character game though. Where and how would you use them? Would you show them in the character sheet only? During dialog?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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stargelman said:
They really aren't that bad, I guess.
That's the problem. I would really prefer good portraits instead.

I have to wonder if you really need those in a single player, single character game though. Where and how would you use them? Would you show them in the character sheet only? During dialog?
I wouldn't mind having portraits for NPCs (for the dialogue window) to show the player what this character actually look like and, hopefully, capture his/her personality a bit. I doubt that the artist is skilled enough to pull it off though.
 

Fez

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Art-wise they are pretty good. What is the alternative?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
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At the moment? None, unless a more gifted artist will come forward.

[Brad Pitt in Troy] IS THERE NO ONE ELSE?!!!! Hmm? [/]
 

Lumpy

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Having a portrait for the player can be a nice touch.
 

Roqua

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Why do you think they are bad potriats? They look pretty good to me. They look of the same quality of the BG's, ToEE, PtD, and Arcanum potraits. My only critique would be that they seem too watercolory or pastel-ly. But the drawing themselves are not close to being bad in my opinion. If the art was penciled then inked I think the actual quality of the drawings would be more appparent. Can you tell us why you think they are bad and maybe link to a potrait you think is good and explain why?

ANd this is just a personal opinion but people might be more willing to send in art if you didn't post their art and tell everyone it sucks. Maybe highlight what you like and what you don't like without blanket statements of it just being bad. Is it good in general and bad for the game? Does it not capture what you feel to be the art direction you are looking for? Is it the colors? Or do you seriously think the artist just is a talentless hack?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
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Lumpy said:
Having a portrait for the player can be a nice touch.
It can indeed. The question is do you want your character to look like one of those motherfuckers?
 

psycojester

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Somebody go kidnap Kerim Beyit and get him to crank out some portraits for VD
 

Roqua

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Vault Dweller said:
It can indeed. The question is do you want your character to look like one of those motherfuckers?

Yeah. If I was playing a rogue like character I wouldn't mind my character looking lke the guy on the left. If I was playing a heavy warrior I wouldn't mind my character looking like the guy on the right.
 

Rina

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Oct 19, 2005
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They arent great, but better than nothing I suppose?

I'd like to see a female portrait though. :?
 

galsiah

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I like portraits, but I like them to say character not generic hero type. So long as they have character, I'm not too bothered about accuracy/detail. I also think it's important to have an fairly wide range - once you've got portraits that scream character, you need enough options to find something palatable.

I also tend to prefer those that stick to unadorned faces - rather than displaying weapons/shields/helmets etc. The aim should be to say as much that's essential to the character as possible. "I'm holding a big sword" really ought to be low down on the list. If the context were one where using a weapon were rare, including the weapon might say quite a bit. Given that everyone and his aunt carries a weapon, "I'm holding a big sword" is pretty lacking in expression.

The swarthy-guy-with-dagger / stern-guy-in-helmet are just pretty stereotypical.
I'd rather have drawings showing faces of characters relaxing over a beer, than in some artificial posathon.

There's nothing wrong with them as drawings - they just don't say anything non-stereotypical to me.

Arcanum and Prelude are good examples.


Roqua said:
Yeah. If I was playing a rogue like character I wouldn't mind my character looking lke the sand nigger. If I was playing a heavy warrior I wouldn't mind my character looking like the cracker.
Quite - they're screaming superficial stereotypes. [Again - well drawn, but that's not a big issue. Perhaps you could get that artist to look at some Arcanum stuff for ideas VD??]
 

Vault Dweller

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Roqua said:
Can you tell us why you think they are bad and maybe link to a potrait you think is good and explain why?
I have a feeling that a portrait of one NPC won't be much different, character-wise, from a portrait of another NPC. When I look at the pictures, I see a generic soldier, not a specific character.

As for the example:

gidfinalbv0.jpg


ANd this is just a personal opinion but people might be more willing to send in art if you didn't post their art and tell everyone it sucks.
I didn't say that. The guy has skills and draws approximately 100 times better than I do. However, there is a difference between being able to draw stuff and being able to capture character in portraits.
 

Vault Dweller

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galsiah said:
I like portraits, but I like them to say character not generic hero type.
My sentiments exactly.

Perhaps you could get that artist to look at some Arcanum stuff for ideas VD??
I will. I got the portraits today and posted them here right away to get some feedback.
 

Roqua

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galsiah said:
I like portraits, but I like them to say character not generic hero type. So long as they have character, I'm not too bothered about accuracy/detail. I also think it's important to have an fairly wide range - once you've got portraits that scream character, you need enough options to find something palatable.

I also tend to prefer those that stick to unadorned faces - rather than displaying weapons/shields/helmets etc. The aim should be to say as much that's essential to the character as possible. "I'm holding a big sword" really ought to be low down on the list. If the context were one where using a weapon were rare, including the weapon might say quite a bit. Given that everyone and his aunt carries a weapon, "I'm holding a big sword" is pretty lacking in expression.

The swarthy-guy-with-dagger / stern-guy-in-helmet are just pretty stereotypical.
I'd rather have drawings showing faces of characters relaxing over a beer, than in some artificial posathon.

There's nothing wrong with them as drawings - they just don't say anything non-stereotypical to me.

Arcanum and Prelude are good examples.

Thats a good point and I agree, but VD stated these portraits are for npcs, but even so the critisism is valid. The arcanum potraits did speak of character, I actually based the personality of the character I created off of the potrait of the orc that looked like a gentleman. Usually I just pick a portrait based off of the character concept I'm going for so I can easily distinguish between characters in my party, but if the portraits implies a certain type of character I usually build to that, and base the character's personality around that as well (within limits off course as I like intricate personalities that can't be fully realized in a single portrait).
 

psycojester

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To me the Arcanum portraits just confirmed the fact that people in the renaissance could hold a retarded facial expression long enough to have a portrait of it painted
 

Lumpy

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galsiah said:
And there's nothing wrong with the portraits being stereotypical, considering that CRPG characters are almost always stereotypes. No RPG has ever allowed role-playing a complex character, and probably never will.
 

AZ

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Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
467
Arcanum and Prelude are good examples.

And IWD1-2.
I think they look too generic and bright. A darker colors would look better. The artist wants to mimic BG style portraits a bit, which I don't really like.
 

Roqua

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VD, I see what you are saying but I also see character in the portraits posted. The guy on the left looks a little smarmy and flippant and ready to laugh at a joke of yours or over your bodyas you lay bleeding from a stab wound he gave you, and the guy on the right, with his distant stair, looks like he's seen his share of battles and is well disciplined and a little world weary.

I would prefer the first posted potraits over the example you posted to show what you believe to be good. The top potraits I like more because they are a little more generic and don't tie you down to one type of personality. Each potrait has a broader range for allowing me to create the personality I want.

I would pick the second posted portrait over the top ones only if it gave me a good idea for a new character type I wanted to play. Its a great portrait and speaks volumes of the man's character and life, but doesn't leave much play room and ties your hands when coming up with a personality for him.

If you could get a a lot of portraits of that quality and type I would say go with something like that. But if you can't provide enough portraits to cover every possibility of character type I can think of, I would say go with the more generic. One of my critisisms of Arcanum is that I can think of far more character types that the portraits provided don't fit, the spectrum wasn't broad enough.

Of course, if this is just for npcs everything I said is invalid. But to test the artist, if this is true, why not post a character description and backstory and we'll see what he can do, and ask others to throw their hat in the ring and we can see what they can do. It can be like the interface thread 2.

Like what you did with the music thread, you had a description and the musicians tried to capture what you described.
 

Jora

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The portraits are decent. I agree with what Roqua said about the coloring.

(King of Dragon Pass has a wide range of good portraits. You could email the developer to get in contact with whoever did them.)
 

Vault Dweller

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@ Roqua: One more time, the portraits are for NPCs.

But to test the artist, if this is true, why not post a character description and backstory and we'll see what he can do, and ask others to throw their hat in the ring and we can see what they can do. It can be like the interface thread 2.
Why not?

These are the unedited (don't mind the writing) descriptions we use in-game when we introduce a character to you:

Cado has been a thief ever since he could remember. Unlike many people who thought that stealing was a quick and easy way to make money, Cado believed that stealing was a job, much like guarding or trading, and like any job it required a lot of time and efforts, rewarding hard work and dedication. Running a thieves guild in a small town was a difficult and dangerous occupation, and the guild was hit hard more than a few times in the past. A few years ago a guildmaster was nailed to the guild's door, and Cado, who was next in line, had reluctantly accepted the duties and carefully navigated local waters without attracting too much attention to the guild.

Cassius was a relatively young loremaster, having recently celebrated his 42nd birthday. Unlike his gray-haired colleagues with long beards symbolizing wisdom, Cassius' hair was still black and his beard was a stylish black rectangle symbolizing more interest in the opposite sex than in the dusty scrolls describing the tactical brilliance and numerious victories of one of the long dead emperors. Cassius had been waiting patiently for one of his gainfully employed colleagues to die, when Antidas' emissaries made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

Dellar's appearance was misleading. He looked like a skinny sad-looking scribe who would be the first to die in any fight. In reality the last two decades Dellar spent fighting for one cause or another, mastering the tricky art of killing your opponents before they can kill you. The highlights of his career included protecting caravans, raiding caravans a few years later, rotting in a dungeon and fighting for food scraps, being noticed and promoted into a gladiator, finally escaping to Teron and faithfully serving House Daratan ever since.
 

chaedwards

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Jun 10, 2004
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I don't know - they don't seem to fit too well with the style of the world you're trying to portray. I can't see either of them making the sort of cynical dialogue I've seen. Also, the seem a bit... colourful - I imagine the world to be rather dry and clinical in its execution, and they don't really fit the bill. I think monochromatic line drawings, a bit like those in Prelude to Darkness would fit quite well.
 

Lumpy

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Vault Dweller said:
@ Roqua: One more time, the portraits are for NPCs.
Why?
Just use unique portraits for NPCs and more generic ones for the PC. Make them interesting without limiting the array of characters that could use a particular one.
And for the love of God, only use reasonably normal poses in the portraits. Not like this:
xzar.jpg
vg_rpg_bg1_xan.jpg
 

callehe

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Dec 5, 2004
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Gothic Castle
Without being sarcastic: is hiring a 'professional' artist too expensive for AoD?

The portraits on top are not bad, but they look a little sketchy. As for portraits having character... I've always felt that the portraits in BG where too over the top, more generic is good. I would prefer portraits like the ones in from Arcanum. Still any half decent portrait is better than no portraits at all.

Maybe even mr Boyarsky is willing to do some freelance again? :)
 

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