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Portraits?

Flink

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
220
Location
Tarant
I agree, the last portrait is really nice.

I really liked the first two as well actually... I say go for it!
 

Timur

Scholar
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Messages
286
Vault Dweller said:
psycojester said:
Nice portrait god awful descriptive text
If you can do better, change it.

Fuck it, I'll take a go.

A permeant grin etched across his face, Neleos, a swarthy little man, is always jovial regardless of the circumstances and is well liked in Teron because of this seemingly inherent trait. Most pedestrians are shocked when they discover that he is an assassin for hire, and more so after they’re informed that he’s the defacto guild leader. As the image of Neleos giving a victim a warm embrace while he plunges a dirk into the small of the target's back upsets many a civilian's delicate sensibilities, most prefer to think of him as more of an hands-off administrator for the guild as opposed to a cold-blooded killer. When questioned about his role, as he is constantly, Neleos only shrugs and replies with his trademark smile.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Timur said:
Vault Dweller said:
psycojester said:
Nice portrait god awful descriptive text
If you can do better, change it.

Fuck it, I'll take a go.
Not bad. Can you make it shorter? I underlined words/phrases that are unnecessary:

A permeant grin etched across his face, Neleos, a swarthy little man, is always jovial regardless of the circumstances and is well liked in Teron because of this seemingly inherent trait. Most pedestrians are shocked when they discover that he is an assassin for hire, and more so after they’re informed that he’s the defacto guild leader. (it's a small town - everyone knows who he is). As the image of Neleos giving a victim a warm embrace while he plunges a dirk into the small of the target's back (too poetic) upsets many a civilian's delicate sensibilities, most prefer to think of him as more of an hands-off administrator for the guild as opposed to a cold-blooded killer. When questioned about his role, as he is constantly, Neleos only shrugs and replies with his trademark smile.
 

Fryjar

Augur
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
176
Well, now we're back again at the point, where we are discussing the writing and I doubt that our discussion will unfold much differently from the one a few months ago.
As before, I have to say that I prefer your short and somewhat special style (even though your old editor definitely had talent). Nevertheless, I wonder if you still have a native speaker who proof reads your texts.
Even though this passage is fine in my opinion , some of your newly created pieces (like the new death scenes for instance) are not quite on par and show some minor grammatical errors. Thus, I wonder if they would slip this way into your game.
 

Slylandro

Scholar
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
705
A permeant grin etched across his face, Neleos, a swarthy little man, is always jovial regardless of the circumstances and is well liked in Teron because of this seemingly inherent trait. Most pedestrians are shocked when they discover that he is an assassin for hire, and more so after they’re informed that he’s the defacto guild leader. (it's a small town - everyone knows who he is). As the image of Neleos giving a victim a warm embrace while he plunges a dirk into the small of the target's back (too poetic) upsets many a civilian's delicate sensibilities, most prefer to think of him as more of an hands-off administrator for the guild as opposed to a cold-blooded killer. When questioned about his role, as he is constantly, Neleos only shrugs and replies with his trademark smile.

Sorry to be so anal, but in case it wasn't noticed, was 'permeant' really intended?

I don't really like the new text to be honest but I'll wait to see what Timur comes up with next.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Fryjar said:
...some of your newly created pieces (like the new death scenes for instance) are not quite on par and show some minor grammatical errors. Thus, I wonder if they would slip this way into your game.
The new death lines are quick "sketches" at best, aimed to capture the right atmosphere and tone, and get some feedback. Out of curiosity, what exactly you didn't like and why. Your criticism helps me greatly, so don't be shy.
 

Timur

Scholar
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Messages
286
Vault Dweller said:
Timur said:
Vault Dweller said:
psycojester said:
Nice portrait god awful descriptive text
If you can do better, change it.

Fuck it, I'll take a go.
Not bad. Can you make it shorter? I underlined words/phrases that are unnecessary:

A permeant grin etched across his face, Neleos, a swarthy little man, is always jovial regardless of the circumstances and is well liked in Teron because of this seeminglyinherent trait. Most pedestrians are shocked when they discover that he is an assassin for hire, and more so after they’re informed that he’s the defacto guild leader. (it's a small town - everyone knows who he is). As the image of Neleos giving a victim a warm embrace while he plunges a dirk into the small of the target's back (too poetic) upsets many a civilian's delicate sensibilities, most prefer to think of him as more of an hands-off administrator for the guild as opposed to a cold-blooded killer. When questioned about his role, as he is constantly, Neleos only shrugs and replies with his trademark smile.

A permeant grin etched across his face, Neleos, a swarthy little man, is always jovial regardless of the circumstances and is well liked in Teron because of this. Given his good humor, most newcomers find it hard to believe that this inviting man is the leader of the Boatmen. As the idea that good ol’Neleos would kill anyone for the right price upsets many a civilian's delicate sensibilities, most prefer to think of him as more of an hands-off administrator for the guild as opposed to a cold-blooded killer. When questioned about his role, Neleos only shrugs and replies with his trademark smirk.

I also came up with this.

A shit eating grin plastered to his face, Neleos, a swarthy little man, is always jovial regardless of the circumstances and is well liked in Teron because of this. Regardless of his good nature, the Guildmaster’s demeanor is one of easy authority, one that reveals he knows his position of power is common knowledge and asks “so why hide it”? Given his disarming air, most townsfolk prefer to think of him as more of an hands-off administrator for the guild as opposed to a cold-blooded killer. When questioned about his role, Neleos only shrugs and replies with his trademark smirk.
 

Slylandro

Scholar
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
705
Me neither. What VD's writing really needs is just a bit of polish, not a total rewrite.
 

Timur

Scholar
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Messages
286
Eh, I'm a history student, not a writer :wink:

I personally think that VD's biggest problem is that he uses a passive/past tense as opposed to an active/present one. Besides that he’s not that efficient in sentence construction (and the sentences themselves are rather simplistic). Some more detail into Neleos’ demeanor would be welcome.

Not a total rewrite, but an editing job.

Always in a good mood, even when things don’t go his way, Neleos' smile seems to be a permanent feature of his face. Well liked in Teron despite his line of work, few people think of him as an assassin, the general consensus being that Neleos is more of an administrator of the guild, not someone who kills for a living. Well aware of those rumors, Neleos has made no effort to either confirm or deny them.

I tried to add some more character to the description (not the one above, but the past two), not only who he is, but how he acts.
 

galsiah

Erudite
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
1,613
Location
Montreal
Timur said:
...(and the sentences themselves are rather simplistic)...
Which is in no way a disadvantage in itself. Yours often seem to be wordy/complex for the sake of it - which is undesirable.

If anything, I think VD could do better by keeping sentences shorter. Some of his (and your) longer sentences are rather awkward. There's nothing necessarily wrong with long sentences, but they're more liable to come over as awkward/clunky/wordy. As a general rule, I'd prefer short sentences where possible, and long ones where necessary.

Where long sentences are used, I'd point out that God created the dash, the colon and the semi-colon for a reason. A little variety in punctuation can often help with clarity and/or disambiguation.
 

MisterStone

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
9,422
Vault Dweller said:
Another portrait:

Neleos, the guildmaster of the assassins guild.

Neleos' smile seemed to be a permanent feature of his face. He was always in a good mood, even when things didn't go his way, and he was well liked in Teron despite his line of work. Few people thought of him as an assassin, and the general consensus was that Neleos was more of an administrator of the guild, rather than someone who killed for a living. Neleos was well aware of those rumors, but he made no efforts to either confirm or deny them.

Opinions?

This is an excellent description... much better than the rewrites. Don't listen to people telling you this is no good; I can't imagine improving it by rewriting, unless maybe I was given some extra information to include. Since there is already a spiffy portrait, there really is no need for a physical description, imho.

The only tiny correction I would make is remove a comma in this sentence (the one after "guild":
  • Few people thought of him as an assassin, and the general consensus was that Neleos was more of an administrator of the guild rather than someone who killed for a living.

*edit* Style and grammar wise, the last sentence is fine. But is doesn't really make sense. People think of him as an administrator... that's not really a "rumor" is it? Think of a different way to express this, perhaps.
 

galsiah

Erudite
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
1,613
Location
Montreal
Naturally it could hardly matter less, but...

MisterStone said:
The only tiny correction I would make is remove a comma in this sentence (the one after "guild":
  • Few people thought of him as an assassin, and the general consensus was that Neleos was more of an administrator of the guild rather than someone who killed for a living.
I don't agree. I'd say this is exactly the time to move away from a comma-or-nothing approach.

I'd go with:
  • Few people thought of him as an assassin: the general consensus was that Neleos was [more of] an administrator of the guild [, rather] than someone who killed for a living. [choose one]
 

MisterStone

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
9,422
galsiah said:
Naturally it could hardly matter less, but...

MisterStone said:
The only tiny correction I would make is remove a comma in this sentence (the one after "guild":
  • Few people thought of him as an assassin, and the general consensus was that Neleos was more of an administrator of the guild rather than someone who killed for a living.
I don't agree. I'd say this is exactly the time to move away from a comma-or-nothing approach.

I'd go with:
  • Few people thought of him as an assassin: the general consensus was that Neleos was [more of] an administrator of the guild [, rather] than someone who killed for a living. [choose one]

Yeah, yours is better.

I think a good rule of thumb is try to use commas as little as possible.
 

Timur

Scholar
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Messages
286
MisterStone said:
Yeah, yours is better.

I think a good rule of thumb is try to use commas as little as possible.

yep. But I still find it grating that the prose is using a passive/past tense.
 

denizsi

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
9,927
Location
bosphorus
Vault Dweller said:
Another portrait:

Neleos, the guildmaster of the assassins guild.

Neleos' smile seemed to be a permanent feature of his face. He was always in a good mood, even when things didn't go his way, and he was well liked in Teron despite his line of work. Few people thought of him as an assassin, and the general consensus was that Neleos was more of an administrator of the guild, rather than someone who killed for a living. Neleos was well aware of those rumors, but he made no efforts to either confirm or deny them.

neleos.jpg


Inspired by:

wallach.jpg


Opinions?

The smiley expression on the artwork is more of a forced, sinister motive, mixed with some despisal and sorrow instead of reflection of a natural, good mood. Look at his straight nose and smooth nasal bone, and mouth despite the smile. Stretching lines around the sheek don't extend to the nasal area and the mouth is a little too downwards for the intended smile. Note how low and straight the lower lip is, note its angle. The edge points where upper and lower lips meet should be higher, giving the lower lip a steeper bend. It almost look as if we removed the moustache, we would see expressionless upper lip with no bending or stretching.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
I like the smile on the portrait. It looks insincere and slightly worrying which matches up with what I'd expect.
 

jeansberg

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
173
I used to think of it as an insincere smile too, but after reading Deniszi's post all I can see is a twisted grimace.
 

dagorkan

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
5,164
The picture to me looks like this character has just met the PC for the first time, and they're bullshitting each other, testing each other. He's just realized you are a potentially dangerous enemy but doesn't quite know what to think or do with you yet, maybe because you're new in town and he doesn't know who you're working for. It pisses him off because he hates being in the dark about anything happening on his 'turf'... unconsciously he wants you to be aware of it while rationally knowing he should keep his feelings to himself.

Which makes me think his background was more that of a brutish assassin, not a social/intrigue player. He wouldn't be a specialist of using disguise or social situations. Though obviously he has to be competent. He was more of a contract killer.

On the whole very good, much better than the original of Eli Wallach. You didn't really get the impression he had brains, he was a loner and the kind of guy who worked on gut instinct. He wasn't at all the kind of ambiguous manipulative plotter type you'd need for an assassin's guild leader.

The guy painted is still physical, and has a natural preference for confrontation but also has the brains, and can (needs to) work the politics angles as well.
 

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