Baldur's Gate Planescape: Torment questions

[Cadmus]

Oh god, I just played this game 13 hours in a row, I don't think I've done this since uuh, I don't know, maybe Morrowind or Lineage 2. I was so wrong before when I said it was boring!
It's amazing. Firstly, it's goddamn big. I like how my (even though sometimes tiresome) questioning everything and everybody and reading absolutely anything I get my hands on seem to be regularly rewarded, I got solutions to many quests before I even received them, which is great.

It's like a great detective or suspense thriller, wandering about Sigil and learning about my past deeds, I was genuinely horrified at some things TNO has done. The texts are wonderfully written, every single goddamn one of them. The descriptions are vivid and atmospheric. I can't imagine playing this without knowing enough English, though. That would completely ruin the game. So finally, after about 5 times having started the game and being bored to death, I think I can say this is the best RPG I have played in a long time. Fallout 2 doesn't even come close.

I still hate the fucking pathfinding, the characters getting stuck into one another, clogging up every exit area and taking 30 seconds to move through a door, being unable to move out of one another's way when I need to open some cupboard and such. It's really the worst I've ever seen. I don't remember it being as bad in IWD but that cannot be as both games should be on an identical engine ...?

The first time I opened a walkthrough because I thought I was stuck in a bugged dialogue (certain furniture in the brothel) and of course even when I was trying really hard to just quickly glance at the relevant part I fucking spoiled something for myself. Anyway, I'm really glad I've been purposely avoiding all spoilers in hopes I would one day be able to enjoy this game. The day has come and I happily have no idea what's going to happen next.

ITS SOOO COOL OMG OMG *CUM IN MY EYE*

EDIT: OH MENS I WILL BE COMING HERE FOR ADVICE BECAUSE I'M SCARED TO OPEN ANY WEBSITE ABOUT PST AND GETTING SHIT SPOILED

 

[Mebber]

Seems like PST has a new worshipper.

The Nameless One is pleased.

 

[Ninjerk]

Savor this feeling.

Spoiler

You will not feel it again.

 

[Hormalakh]

yeah....basically. most other games will now pale. it's sort of a sad feeling. I wish I had started my rpg career with oblivion.

 

[Rake]

yeah....basically. most other games will now pale. it's sort of a sad feeling. I wish I had started my rpg career with oblivion.

Don't. Propably you would had quit gaming altogether.

 

[Severian Silk]

The game is definitely "okay" in my opinion.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Finishing PS:T actually put me into something of a gaming depression which it took years to come out of - just the knowing that no game would ever come close to it, and then the few that do just don't 'quite' make it (KoTOR2 being the most painful, as it's like watching the greatest Star Wars film that could ever be made, and then as you get to the big cliffhanger where the Exile has to decide whether to come full circle and repeat his actions - after the game has brilliantly and repeatedly taunted you by putting those actions in different lights and making you choose and rechoose - the fucking film falls apart and you see the reels come up and then the Monty Python boot comes down and stomps on you.)

It just completely changed my expectations of a good game and made them completely unreasonable. Before PS:T, it was enough that a crpg had fun combat, D&D-esque character progression (or even simpler) and maybe a generic bad guy to vanquish. After PS:T, suddenly they also had to engage me emotionally and intellectually ffs - no wonder we ended up with modern-day Bioware:-(

 

[hivemind]

I don't understand the global praise the writing of this game gets. It isn't bad sure and of course it's much better than the mainstream rpgs of today but to me it just didn't seem good enough to warrant the horrible gameplay, admittedly the setting itself seems pretty dull to me so that could have made me a bit biased against the writing.

 

[FeelTheRads]

After PS:T, suddenly they also had to engage me emotionally and intellectually ffs - no wonder we ended up with modern-day Bioware:-(

True, but modern day Bioware also cures you.

Really, though, did you read the Planescape sourcebooks? I think they're the closest you can get to the Torment "experience". It's not the same as playing, but still.

One of my dreams is to get rich and enslave MCA to GM Planescape for me.
I'd be like: and he'd be like: and it would be beautiful.

 

[FeelTheRads]

admittedly the setting itself seems pretty dull to me so that could have made me a bit biased against the writing.

lol fuck off Drog.

 

[Cadmus]

Now I'm really confused because it seems to me that Fallout 2 had such completely retarded writing and unfunny jokes yet it's so close on the yearly codex top RPG list. Why is that?

I don't understand the global praise the writing of this game gets. It isn't bad sure and of course it's much better than the mainstream rpgs of today but to me it just didn't seem good enough to warrant the horrible gameplay, admittedly the setting itself seems pretty dull to me so that could have made me a bit biased against the writing.

I don't know. When I started to focus on it and actually read it carefully, I discovered it was intriguing and sent my imagination running wild - this I would consider a sign of good writing. It makes me imagine the stories and relive them and it has an emotional impact on me.

 

[tuluse]

Now I'm really confused because it seems to me that Fallout 2 had such completely retarded writing and unfunny jokes yet it's so close on the yearly codex top RPG list. Why is that?

Because it lets you actually play the game how you want instead of following a linear path.

 

[Severian Silk]

Maybe I would have felt more 'immersed' if I had played the game in 1999 or whenever. And, if the combat didn't also suck, I could wish for more. If it had ToEE's combat and graphics, PST would definitely be my top #2 or #3 RPG ever (after Fallout).

 

[Cadmus]

Maybe I would have felt more 'immersed' if I had played the game in 1999 or whenever. And, if the combat didn't also suck, I could wish for more. If it had ToEE's combat and graphics, PST would definitely be my top #2 or #3 RPG ever (after Fallout).

yeah, the combat is just shit, there's no way around it
I STILL COME 5 TIMES A DAY PLAYING THIS GAME SO WHATEVA

 

[Azrael the cat]

It's not just the prose in PS:T, and I think that's what a lot of imitators (including MCA himself) miss. The pacing, for one, is excellent, with a sort of 'open funnel' system to progression - instead of being told 'go to point A and do B' you'll hear more and more about some guy/thing you've got to track down, with contradictory pieces from different sources. Events like Ravel work as well as they do because of WHEN you get to them, not just the writing - it's the way that you first learn about her in myths and fourth-hand stories, then 2nd-hand stories, then your own memories...which 'might' be the source of some of the earlier myths, or at least resemble them. I'm all for variety in crpg structure - not every game has to be a sandbox, and the IE game / MotB 'series of zones' structure can work just fine. But very few crpgs use linearity (and I mean PS:T / MotB linearity) intelligently - there's no sense of pacing aside from the stats getting bigger on the enemies.

Contrast with the FPS-rpg hybrids and there's a lot of games that really make 'funnelled linearity' (again, where you still have room to explore, but there's a set of singular goals to follow) shine - both System Shock games and Deus Ex immediately come to mind. They do things that you just can't do in a sandbox. Part of that is polish and attention to detail, but it's also pacing. You could never do Gunther Hermann's arc from Deus Ex in an open sandbox, nor the satisfaction of finally facing off against Simons.

KoTOR2 has good writing throughout, but it shines when the pacing is on form and is terrible when it lapses - and it's a large part of why the incomplete ending screws the game so much. There's elements of circularity to it that work really well, and that you can't do in an open sandbox.

Then you get a game like Alpha Protocol where the writing is great, but the pacing is almost uniformly bad. It has probably the most intricate C+C out of any modern crpg, but as great as it is to point out to the strategist guy why the cold war is going to turn hot, or turn him by finding out that the chick you shag is his daughter and she was killed by the ex-military guy, I just couldn't care, because the last time I interacted with him was back in the start of the game.

 

[Infinitron]

CMcC should pay attention to this thread. Actually, he should read all of Azrael's posts about PS:T.

 

[Hormalakh]

So for me, the biggest aspect of PS:T that I loved wasn't the "linearity." I think the writing just worked and was well packaged. Most of what happens ultimately comes back around and has some sort of answer. And ultimately, I think that PS:T's greatest strength lies in its characterization. The characters were believable in a Shakespearean tragedy sort of way. Nobody is a Mary Sue. Even the Mary Sue (TNO) isn't a Mary Sue. And the world gave you enough information that you wanted more when you finished the game. There were a few lingering questions that would further explain everything, but they weren't necessary.

The philosophical aspects of the game were also interesting because they make you sit and consider how the REAL WORLD works and what you feel about it. It ultimately was a great allegorical tale for players to take something away, as good fantasy/sci-fi should be.

 

[Mebber]

Events like Ravel work as well as they do because of WHEN you get to them, not just the writing - it's the way that you first learn about her in myths and fourth-hand stories, then 2nd-hand stories, then your own memories...

It's also amazing how free in discovering (or not discovering) of all these fragmented bits of information you actually are. It's like a puzzle, and something i really like about PST is how flexible this puzzle is. The game circles around TNO unraveling the riddle of his own past, but much of his "background content" is quite easy to miss; but the story progression still feels authentic - there are so many story fragments scattered across the game world, you'll eventually end up with some of the pieces; but the final composition of which pieces of the puzzle you've actually "collected" (and partly in which order too) can vary greatly, and the story progression still works well. This well-working puzzle-nature makes up for a very individual experience imho, it's really up to you to discover TNO's past, and you'll end up with a very individual experience.

 

[Cadmus]

Guys can you give me a slight hint here, just a push or advice, because I'm starting to get frustrated running around when it seems I've done everything:

Spoiler

1) I'm supposed to build the dream machine or smth, I'm at step 2 - get into the siege tower - I had killed the abishai near it for Sebastien, is there a way to get in or was it dependent on the abishai?
2) I got the handkerchief with blood and some other thing which I suppose is the portal to Ravel but I seem to have come to a dead end - where should I look next for unlocking the key? - just a hintsie please!
3) I became the member of the Godsmen, simply because I didn't have anything better to do... what's it good for except for the shop?

 

[ghostdog]

Guys can you give me a slight hint here, just a push or advice, because I'm starting to get frustrated running around when it seems I've done everything:

Spoiler

1) I'm supposed to build the dream machine or smth, I'm at step 2 - get into the siege tower - I had killed the abishai near it for Sebastien, is there a way to get in or was it dependent on the abishai?
2) I got the handkerchief with blood and some other thing which I suppose is the portal to Ravel but I seem to have come to a dead end - where should I look next for unlocking the key? - just a hintsie please!
3) I became the member of the Godsmen, simply because I didn't have anything better to do... what's it good for except for the shop?

Spoiler

1) talk to someone in the marketplace in lower ward.
2) finish the machine first
3) Entering factions is fun , betraying them is even more fun.

 

[Cadmus]

Guys how can I view the descriptions of the priest spells? I understand that in DnD priests gain spells automatically, correct? But I don't know what some of them do, how can I check them on my lady priest?

Secondly, sometimes when I die in a fight, the whole game becomes unresponsive upon respawning, I can't click on anything nor any menus work..I guess that's a bug?

 

[Ninjerk]

I believe there's a whole separate spellbook menu for priest spells? Maybe I'm thinking Baldur's Gate.

 

[Cadmus]

I know it was in IWD for sure but I can't find it in PST.

 

[Infinitron]

Look harder.

 

[Severian Silk]

Right click on the spell icons.