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KickStarter Queen's Wish: The Conqueror - the Jeff Vogel Kickstarter

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,379
A lot of hypocritical edgy faggots here shitting on vogel. Ha,it is amusing that the guy managed to fund his kickstarter in a day despite the retarded hate here. I see that the people that enjoy older looking games and don't care about graphics are a dying breed even on the codex. Go and enjoy your shiny game,apparently they are making a new fallout for all of you retards.

This isn't about "graphics". Its about quality of the art. No one should be proud of or tolerate terrible art quality. The fact that those new screenshots literally look worse than what he put out in the 90's is the problem.
 

Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,849
The notion that Vogel doesnt put effort in his games is pretty laughable if you ask me. If you play his games you can easily see the attention to detail he puts in his work.

Yes, his games can be a bit samey, but you have to remember this is one guy writing/designing everything. You cannot reinvent yourself artistically completely a dozen times if youre the one who steers the goddamn boat at the same time.

And yes, all his games are butt-ugly, but not because he doesnt want, its because he simply doesnt have the abilities. He is just simply not versed in graphical design and too cautious to invest big in art. He wants to change this now appearantly and we will see how it pans out.
 
Self-Ejected

Sacred82

Self-Ejected
Dumbfuck
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Messages
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Location
Free Village
Yes, his games can be a bit samey, but you have to remember this is one guy writing/designing everything. You cannot reinvent yourself artistically completely a dozen times if youre the one who steers the goddamn boat at the same time.

how about reinventing yourself, like, even once.


edit: ok, twice, Geneforge.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
And yes, all his games are butt-ugly, but not because he doesnt want, its because he simply doesnt have the abilities. He is just simply not versed in graphical design and too cautious to invest big in art. He wants to change this now appearantly and we will see how it pans out.

I wouldn't call refusing to invest even 50 bucks into a soundtrack, or at the very max 1000 bucks into more decent assets, being cautious.
 

Tacgnol

Shitlord
Patron
Joined
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Messages
1,871,734
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Is it caution or laziness?

I'd tend to lean towards the latter with Jeff.
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
It's senility:
Our earliest games, the Exile series, had a simpler top-down graphics style. Many fans have, over the years, asked us to go back to this. We're finally doing it. I like this style a lot. It's very graphically clean, and makes it clear what creatures are in what spaces, which is necessary for a game like this on small screens like the iPhone.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
"Our fans have been asking us to go back to the top-down graphics of the Exile series, so now we're going to use RPG Maker style graphics which look worse than both the Exile series and the later isometric games." :retarded:
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
teaserbox_2473092783.png

1-Ta2YHFx.jpg


vs

35144d911885165089a2569ea5de9312_original.jpg

a2adf064f26d81c38f6cffa90051ad26_original.jpg


Which looks higher quality and why?
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,158
teaserbox_2473092783.png

1-Ta2YHFx.jpg


vs

35144d911885165089a2569ea5de9312_original.jpg

a2adf064f26d81c38f6cffa90051ad26_original.jpg


Which looks higher quality and why?
One , a 1993 game, is fully animated the other never was , and frankly compare what we can compare the dark sun universe is so much better than the bland avadon setting its not even funny.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,205
Location
Ingrija
Both are fine.

Point is, screeching "muh RPGMaker" anytime you spot oblique topdown approach to the perspective is a strawman.
 

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
11,746
Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Dark Sun had fluid animations? I love that game but I'd never accuse it of this ;)

Dark Sun's graphics have soul and a consistent style. The stuff from Jeff's new screenshots seems just bland (to me of course).
 
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Sacred82

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don't hesitate to point me to a different RPG from 1993 with better animations and character models shitheads
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,703
Location
California
IMO, the thing about the graphics that troubles me is not that they're bad per se, but that they're unnecessarily bad. That's always been my beef with Jeff. His design, particularly in the first 15 years or so, is excellent. But he seems either incapable of distinguishing between good and bad art, or indifferent about getting the former and avoiding the latter. This has always been most evident in his character portraits and UIs, but it's endemic in The Queen's Wish. Inconsistent style and perspective (not just between asset types, like walls vs. characters, but among asset types, like plants or props), weirdly terrible effect choices, terrible portraits. It's not hard to get B+ portraits for very low price simply by posting on Deviant Art -- not ITS quality portraits, but sort of run-of-the-mill fantasy stuff. Given that a big point of the KSer is funding new assets, it's annoying that he's not trying to actually get good ones.
 

Grauken

Gourd vibes only
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Messages
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My headcanon is that he has a special mental disability that makes him unable to see art per see. All his brains does is translate everything into line graphics ala Wizardry, and monsters and NPCs are all just stickmen. Occasionally when he has bought new art, it still resolves in the same old stick people and line art and he's given up trying to improve the graphics and just goes with the first stuff he buys at the cheapest price
 
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Sacred82

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His design, particularly in the first 15 years or so, is excellent.

it's reductionist both in the general sense and in regards to his fanboys. Different weapon types? Ammo? Nonsense! What a timewaster! That there are even still different races in his games is only due to fan demands. Put items in all nooks and crannies, check. Do the whole 0 to hero thing (including skimpy starting equipment that you have to scrounge around for yourself), check. Abilities that sound interesting but are useless except on easy mode, and overpowered straight damage dealing/ damage soaking abilities for everyone else? Check. Characters being so tongue-in-cheek it's somewhere between fantasy babble and fourth wall breaking? Check.

I mean, the man admits that he's been ripping off other people's work from the start. But people chuckle and go "oh Jeff, stop the self-deprecation already". If he wasn't creatively bankrupt in Exile's and Geneforge's case, he's definitely now.

I remember playing the first Avernum rehash when he introduced that turret bullshit, and thinking "now where did he steal that idea? Not from any self-respecting WRPG".
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
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Messages
5,703
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California
Whether it's copied or not, I found the open-world and exploratory aspects of Exile and the first remakes to be superb, and I thought the world-building and exploratory aspects of Geneforge were excellent as well. Like, so good that I'm hard pressed to think of other RPGs were I enjoyed those aspects as much. (AOD, perhaps, edges out Geneforge.) Those games were certainly full of design failures, too, but they were still amazing at what they did well. I didn't play his later stuff.

Maybe I've overstated my praise, though, because the games did have enough annoyance built into their core gameplay loops that I never finished Geneforge and lost my taste for Exile and its sequels after the second or third game in each due to a certain reptitiousness.
 
Self-Ejected

Sacred82

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Whether it's copied or not, I found the open-world and exploratory aspects of Exile and the first remakes to be superb, and I thought the world-building and exploratory aspects of Geneforge were excellent as well. Like, so good that I'm hard pressed to think of other RPGs were I enjoyed those aspects as much. (AOD, perhaps, edges out Geneforge.) Those games were certainly full of design failures, too, but they were still amazing at what they did well. I didn't play his later stuff.

Maybe I've overstated my praise, though, because the games did have enough annoyance built into their core gameplay loops that I never finished Geneforge and lost my taste for Exile and its sequels after the second or third game in each due to a certain reptitiousness.

Exile was unbalanced (not that anyone seemed to mind back then) but it was quirky and fun. He gave players a lot of tools to play around with. And whatever he copied ideas from, at least it seemed like nothing else I'd played before. With Avernum, the amount of useful character traits was already cut down to a minimum, the rest was fluff, and of course you were wondering why he'd simply remake an old game instead of doing something new. He had been onto something with personality, and then he just makes it all over.

The whole staying in business thing may be a reality, but you can't sell people old slop and justify it by saying you have to stay in business somehow.

Btw, people should take that kind of claim with a huge grain of salt - has anyone seen Vogel's financial records? You've got to hand it to Cleve again, he's been lamenting/ bragging over the money he poured into Grimoire over the years, but even in his dubious campaigns, he never claimed he's strapped for cash.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,205
Location
Ingrija
don't hesitate to point me to a different RPG from 1993 with better animations and character models shitheads

Ultima 7, cretin.

Calling tiny hand-drawn sprites "models" says everything about your competence.

And nobody cares about "art quality" in Dark Sun. It uses the same perspective. Sufficit.
 

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