Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[Lhynn]

The whole point of VtM is introspection, personal horror, intrigue and "2deep4you" stuff, not brawling like an idiot with everything you come in contact with. If you wanna fuck around with mechanics and fight constantly, why not go for a Werewolf or a D&D game? Or if you're one of those people, you could run a.... Sabbath campaign.

I mean, like Junta said, if that's what tickles your fancy then whatever, but it's a bit pointless to do when games specifically tailor-made to cater to that already exist. Playing a Vampire game for its mechanics is like watching porn for the plot.

Blah blah blah, not pertinent to the discussion at hand.
Also bloodlines was about sexy girls, stupid ambition and imbeciles trying to rebel. A lot of it was B movie shlock. You are one of those pretentious twits that fail to grasp the idea that PnP is suposed to be fun and interesting first, and that it being "proper" and "how the makers envisioned" is less important than bringing something to drink and ordering food before it gets too late.
Fucking shitposters man, all sizes and shapes i tell you.

Yes, one in ten, if even that many. Nine out of ten end up eviscerated in under 6 seconds. I guess if you're running a campaign where your PC and his friends are super special snowflakes it works, but I'm not much of a fan of that trope when vidya already bombards you with it non-stop.
I'm not saying it's impossible to happen, just very, very unlikely.

Id say 1 in 100 vampires, if that many. Most vampire populations dont even get that high to guarrant one or two with a maxed discipline for their generation. Its not the point we are discussing here either tho. About 90% of the vampire population is literally trash.
The point is that werewolves have a real weakness and that a proper vampire can deal with them without resorting to ultra rare low generation ancient disciples to get the job done.

PS: The campaign i ran had my players trying to enjoy their last days on the world as prophecies were being fullfiled and they could all but feel the end being nigh. It was about fighting for their humanity, about surviving what was to come, coming to terms with who they were, letting go of their past lives, and not killing eachother in the process. But it was also shlocky, it had them travelling around the world, encountering all kinds of cainites, and even running into sethites, about discovering the world of darkness. And it was DMed and played by a bunch of high schoolers. It was great, and to this day remembered fondly by those guys.
Not that youd have a clue about it, as i was speaking from my experience as a player on my previous posts, not as a DM. I thought i made that clear, you pretentious cunt.

 

[Lambach]

Also bloodlines was about sexy girls, stupid ambition and imbeciles trying to rebel. A lot of it was B movie shlock. You are one of those pretentious twits that fail to grasp the idea that PnP is suposed to be fun and interesting first, and that it being "proper" and "how the makers envisioned" is less important than bringing something to drink and ordering food before it gets too late.

So play D&D then, you fucking ponce.

"There's no wrong way to play a game", maybe, but there are sure as fuck stupid ways to play it. Are you one of those who play Skyrim by eating 3 square meals a day, walking around town and chatting with NPCs in a fixed pattern instead of doing quests and shit? Because that's what you're doing when you play VtM with the purpose of turning it into a reenactment of a some shitty B-grade shock flick. I guess there are autists who find it entertaining, but most people will just play something else instead.

PS: The campaign i ran had my players trying to enjoy their last days on the world as prophecies were being fullfiled and they could all but feel the end being nigh. It was about fighting for their humanity, about surviving what was to come, coming to terms with who they were, letting go of their past lives, and not killing eachother in the process. But it was also shlocky, it had them travelling around the world, encountering all kinds of cainites, and even running into sethites, about discovering the world of darkness. And it was DMed and played by a bunch of high schoolers. It was great, and to this day remembered fondly by those guys.
Not that youd have a clue about it, as i was speaking from my experience as a player on my previous posts, not as a DM. I thought i made that clear, you pretentious cunt.

Sounds like you would've had more fun with Changeling or some other setting if that's the kind of thing you were going for.

 

[Old One]

I finally quit fiddling long enough to play a bit, and it's been a nice return to the game. I played a male Malkavian once so I picked a female Malkavian and I'm going low Humanity as suggested a few pages back. Or rather, I'm simply not worrying about Humanity. I've gotten some good dialogue I don't think I saw last time, but I probably know a lot more about the game at this point. Also, the way all the power lines and cables go nuts is quite funny.

I found the Ocean House Hotel to be very satisfying. I think the negativity some have about it stems from playing the game too often. I haven't played for a couple of years at least, and I was able to appreciate it. I've often thought that, if you've become too impatient to walk most of the time through Bloodlines, you should quit playing because you're not appreciating it properly. I still think that's true. If you're so jaded you're running through the Ocean House, you need to give it a rest.

 

[Lhynn]

SoplayD&DthenyoufuckingponceThere'snowrongwaytoplayagamemaybebuttherearesureasfuckstupidwaystoplayitAreyouoneofthosewhoplaySkyrimbyeating3squaremealsaday,walkingaroundtownandchattingwithNPCsinafixedpatterninsteadofdoingquestsandshit?Becausethat'swhatyou'redoingwhenyouplayVtMwiththepurposeofturningitintoareenactmentofasomeshittyB-gradeshockflick.IguessthereareautistswhofinditentertainingbutmostpeoplewilljustplaysomethingelseinsteadSoundslikeyouwould'vehadmorefunwithChangelingorsomeothersettingifthat'sthekindofthingyouweregoingfor

Gonna take this diarrhea as a sign you conceded the point, that means im done.

 

[Lambach]

Gonna take this diarrhea as a sign you conceded the point, that means im done.

How about you just admit you have shit taste, you complete dumbfuck?

 

[Lhynn]

How about you just admit you have shit taste, you complete dumbfuck?

I have shit taste.
I dont get your post tho, damage control on what level? what did i say wrong? I won the argument and you are bringing up a new subject i dont care about. so explain.

 

[Old One]

Malkavian has some pretty good dialogue with Heather Poe. It seems that Malkavian blood makes her go insane too.

Grout's Mansion: this is fun because of the recorded messages, and because it's the first time you get to go all-out with your vampire powers, draining humans dry left and right to power-up your disciplines. It also has some puzzle aspects that were probably fun the first time I ran through, but are now not much more than speedbumps. I guess that's a good thing though. None of them require extensive hoop-jumping from players who already know the solutions.

UP Plus Patch adds a labyrinth to Grout's Mansion. It's pretty good overall except for two problems: I found a newspaper with some bad grammatical errors, which breaks the mood horribly considering it's a modded area, and navigating the maze allows a different route to the end of the mansion, which cuts off a couple of the recordings. If you want to hear them all in order you have to backtrack a long way to get to the ones you missed.

 

[Lambach]

I have shit taste.

Finally.

I dont get your post tho, damage control on what level? what did i say wrong? I won the argument and you are bringing up a new subject i dont care about. so explain.

What argument did you "win"? The one where you talked about how you played some special snowflake character in some fucking retarded popamole campaign and used it as an example to prove you're an expert in WoD lore/mechanics?

 

[Lhynn]

shit

I give up, you are too stupid. See ya in a couple months to see if you got better.

 

[Lambach]

I give up, you are too stupid. See ya in a couple months to see if you got better.

I dislike repeating myself, but....

 

[Clockwork Knight]

The cab driver was the drunkard you feed on during the tutorial. He finally found his keys.

 

[Prime Junta]

The cab driver was the drunkard you feed on during the tutorial. He finally found his keys.

Can't be. I murdered him.

 

[Musaab]

The version on GoG is said to have community patches and what not...does the Steam one as well?

 

[Tacgnol]

The version on GoG is said to have community patches and what not...does the Steam one as well?

Steam version is just the patched retail version. GOG version includes the basic edition of unofficial patch.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Can't be. I murdered him.

fucking lore rape men

 

[Tacgnol]

Can't be. I murdered him.

fucking lore rape men

What if Caine was the drunk guy?

 

[Beastro]

BTW for love the degree of reactivity that it extends to cheating on your stats with Jack calling you out on it at the beginning.

"MaLkAv gAvE mE My sUpEr sTaTs!"

 

[Old One]

BTW for love the degree of reactivity that it extends to cheating on your stats with Jack calling you out on it at the beginning.

Yeah, that's great. He basically accuses you of being a pussy.

One really funny thing I did this game that I've never done before, and I'm not sure you can even do it unless you have a female character: I was going to see Johnny in Glaze in Chinatown, and there's that one dude over by the DJ you have to talk to to get permission to go upstairs. I had a really high Intimidate score, and I used it to grab his balls, at which point his voice got really high and squeaky and he let me go. Heh.

The UP Plus is a real mixed bag. On the one hand, you can see a lot of work has been put into it, and there are some nice things in there. Enough that I feel bad criticizing it. On the other hand, the new quests are really poorly written and seem very amateurish compared to the base game material. And that's before I make an itemized list of all the little things that are altered for no apparent reason. Frustrating.

The best part is definitely the shortcut to the Warrens, no doubt. And I'm not one who minds the old sewers all that much.

I would never recommend the UP Plus for a new player. It's much too different from the way the game is supposed to be.

I decided to skip the Mitnick-Imalia-Posters for Gary quests. Man, it saves a lot of time if you skip those.

 

[duchU]

[...]

The UP Plus is a real mixed bag. On the one hand, you can see a lot of work has been put into it, and there are some nice things in there. Enough that I feel bad criticizing it. On the other hand, the new quests are really poorly written and seem very amateurish compared to the base game material. And that's before I make an itemized list of all the little things that are altered for no apparent reason. Frustrating.

[...]

I would never recommend the UP Plus for a new player. It's much too different from the way the game is supposed to be.

I decided to skip the Mitnick-Imalia-Posters for Gary quests. Man, it saves a lot of time if you skip those.

1. There are only a few new quests and the main reason they seem very amateurish is that there are no proper voice overs to use (and that 'most' of new quests are short ones - the only longer one is Library quest). Besides Drug quest for Trip is rather an addition to Werewolf blood quest and poster quest is about getting the posters for your heaven (if someone likes things like those) and not about the XP. And in case of Library quest - it could be better with more talking shit (with Beckett for example) but this cannot be done cos there are no voice overs to make it - and besides this you get 3 new maps to visit and a boss to kill so I don't get why people complain here.

2. There are reasons why many things are altered - for example: some books placement were changed because of book selling exploit, Firearms (5) skill book from Society of Leopold - research level required to use it was change drom 10 to 9 cos it costed more to reach resereach 10 (to be able to read the book) than firearms 5 itself... etc.

3. I would recommend the UP+ if someone is going to play only once.

 

[Goral]

I partially agree with Old One and partially with duchU. I would not recommend UP Plus for a new player, even if he would intend to play the game only once. The game is awesome even in 1.2 version and with UP patch there are practically no bugs but there are a few changes in the Plus that are questionable (personally I like them but for the most part they nerf our character and if we check the option they might completely change some disciplines), especially for first timers. As for book exploit, I doubt many first timers would even notice it (who in his right mind would sell means to increase your stats, especially at the start) unless they would be reading a walktrough or something like that. But books exploit is basically cheating anyway so they might as well use cheat codes and get XP that way.

The new quests are good though, nothing special but nothing cringeworthy either (and I wouldn't call them amateurish considering quests such as replanting Lilly or killing the Kuei-jin spy for Knox/Tung) and they prolong the awesome experience one has when playing this game so for next playthroughs I would recommend installing it (without changing disciplines though). Bloodlines is rather linear and every new playthorugh is VERY similar (except for Malkavian, even Nosferatu is basically the same), you always get the same quests, disciplines repeat themselves, etc. etc. As for the posters, you do get XP for that (1 XP to be exact) and it is interesting IMO plus you can do it by the way when you work for Mitnick. I like doing this quest and posters are just a nice bonus.

 

[duchU]

What I meant about the poster quest is that the posters are the main reward here and not the XP (1 point is like nothing at this stage of the game in comparison to how many items you have to find and send to get that 1 XP).

 

[Old One]

The reason some of the quests from the UP seem amateurish is because they're poorly written. Not being able to add voice overs (and I'm including the Library quest, which has a voice over that just doesn't work) is limiting, but it's not an excuse for bad writing. Like I said, I feel bad being critical because the main problem is that the quests were made over a long period of time by a group of enthusiasts experimenting with modding to try and figure out what they could accomplish. Still, there's a problem with what I would call oversight. There's no one acting as a proper editor asking logical questions about why something is happening and what the effect is on the setting and story. There's no one editing the text properly either, for that matter.

I'll give a couple of quick examples of things changed by the UP for no apparent reason. The first time you step out of your haven in Santa Monica, there's a stuffy rich guy who is stranded because his car broke down. The UP adds a tiny compact car staged to look like it crashed into some palm trees. There's even a little trail of smoke coming from the hood. This is not an improvement over no car because, for one thing, the guy's car didn't crash, it just broke down, and for another, he's supposed to be rich so he wouldn't be driving a little wind-up toy car. It probably happened that some one figured out how to add a car to the scene, and so he did add it simply because he could.

There's also a vampire who may or may not be spying on you. In any case he vanishes from sight as soon as he sees you (using Obfuscate, presumably). This guy used to be lurking in a dark alley on the other side of Trip's Pawn Shop, but the UP moves him to the alley behind the blood bank, where he's much more noticeable. In fact, you can't miss him now because you practically run right in to him. This is also not an improvement. In fact I'd say it's worse because it used to be a nice, creepy, little touch you might have missed the first time, but you would eventually see it. Now it's in your face. It's as though the UP thinks Troika made a mistake placing the spy in the alley beyond Trip's. No they didn't.

I managed to finish the game. There's a moment near the end, just before Jack disappears from The Last Round, when you can talk to him as a Malkavian and essentially reveal his entire scheme with the sarcophagus. It disturbs him, to say the least. He implies that he would have to kill you if he thought you actually understood what you were saying.

 

[makiavelli747]

-Just keeps gettin' more interesting, doesn't it, kiddo? The Giovanni, the Kuei-jin - lots of blood bein' spilled for a 10,000 year old conversation piece, wouldn't ya say?
-Gehenna! The hand of the Dark Father! The lid opens! A dark secret I see...!
-Man, you guys give me the heebie-jeebies. Sounds like you know a lot more about somethin' than you're supposed to. Lucky for you, you probably don't understand what you're sayin'. If you did, I'd be talkin' to a pile of ash right now.

 

[Krivol]

I found annoying bugs in library quest (whole quest is kind of a bug in this game, it's just bad):

- trapdoor doesn't open even after using the computer (noclip helped here)
- when I used flamethrower on the "final library boss" he started to scream, stopped to move at all and just got frozen (couldn;t kill him or harm in any way, reload and NOT using flamethrower helped)

I don't like this quest - patroling guards are boring (so sneaky part is boring too) , grand finale is just shitty, voice acting is... well... annoying at best.

Experience reward is not big anyway (1 or 2 points, IIRC) so you can skip this quest totally.

 

[Tacgnol]

- trapdoor doesn't open even after using the computer (noclip helped here)

You have to use the computer and then the hidden switch in the library art gallery.