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Rogue system - new space sim

Blaine

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Yeah, I saw this game a couple of weeks ago. Not sure what to think of it. The painfully bad and clichéd writing (all two lines of it) and JRPG music there near the end are perplexing.
 

Brianetta

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Incidentally, is there any intention to have more accurate (multi-body) physics, programmable autopilots (or ships in general) that can use orbital mechanics or replacing/extending the generated galaxy with real world starcharts? Not right away of course, but in future.

There are no plans for multi-body physics at the moment. The autopilot can already fly you into circular orbits, and there's a (commented out) bit of script in the latest versions which can easily be enabled, showing you the local escape velocity, tangential descent, etc.

As for real world star charts, everything for about 30ly around Sol is more or less real, and many of the bright stars visible from Earth are in their correct positions around the galaxy. Sagittarius A* exists, although S2 doesn't (which is a shame - we might add it in). Obviously, in a Newtonian world, the rather more interesting relativistic effects of a black hole are absent. Spacetime doesn't stretch as you approach, and orbits don't precess.

I once made a cheat script that flew me to the centre of the galaxy, using my regular hyperdrive, performing repairs and magicking up more fuel as required. It took five and a half hours of real time, almost all of it spent in the jump state.
 
In My Safe Space
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Sounds good. And it runs nice on my 10 years old computer.

Is it moddable? Are there any opponents?
 

Kirtai

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Brianetta, that sounds really nice, looking forward to it. Are there any thoughts on sharing models with the Oolite people?

I can also see that scriptable autopilot being programmed to do some amazing stuff :)
 

Brianetta

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Awor: Yes, it is moddable. There are opponents. Pirates, for example, in some systems. No plot, though. Plots will come and go by means of mission scripts.

Kirtai: I don't think we've looked at it. We've just replaced our old, awkward model system with a new one based on SceneGraph with AssImp support, so it might be possible. That's not really my area, though.
 

Kirtai

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It looks like they're trying to put as much as possible into event-driven Lua scripts, which may be replaceable or extendable by mods.

Hmm, I wonder if total conversions from games like Freespace or other non-newtonian games will be feasible in future. I suspect some people in this thread will be all over that :D
 

Brianetta

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Everything in the data directory can be replaced by a mod, and all the Lua scripts are in the data directory. Weapon stats and hardware have not been farmed out to Lua yet, so your weapon choice right now is from the range of coloured blob throwers. A start has been made on that, though.

Easy total conversions are the intention. The inevitable Babylon 5, Firefly or Battlestar Galactica TCs, one day - but not by the core team. Non-newtonian games are going to be difficult - the physics engine is hard-coded, as are things like the autopilot (Lua can tell it what to do, but not how to do it). To change the laws of physics you'd need to rewrite the engine.
 
In My Safe Space
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Non-newtonian games are going to be difficult - the physics engine is hard-coded, as are things like the autopilot (Lua can tell it what to do, but not how to do it). To change the laws of physics you'd need to rewrite the engine.
I think the main point of the conversions of non-newtonian games would be to fix the non-newtonian problem.

Everything in the data directory can be replaced by a mod, and all the Lua scripts are in the data directory. Weapon stats and hardware have not been farmed out to Lua yet, so your weapon choice right now is from the range of coloured blob throwers. A start has been made on that, though.
Is there an ETA for that stuff?

Also, are there any big ships in game?
 

Kirtai

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Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking of. Sounds excellent.
 
In My Safe Space
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It would be awesome if someone would make something like BC3k in Pioneer.

Also, planetary bombardment.

I just increased fuel use of everything 100 times.
 

DraQ

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The physics aren't toggleable. They couldn't be. It's not just a case of "yeah, your ship has inertia and drifts a lot." You start on Earth, with zero on your speedometer. Thing is, Earth itself is moving at thirty clicks per second around the sun, while the speed of Earth's rotation at Los Angeles (where you start) is nearly 1,400 km/h. Gravity is 1G on the surface, and Gates Starport is hanging in high orbit, but not quite as high as the moon. You can't just switch off physics there, because there's absolutely no other way for the game to do anything without writing a new engine for it.
This.
:salute:

This is the reason why, every time someone suggests making essential core mechanics toggleable I feel that strange urge to drive to them and feed them their own keyboard.

Anally.

Sideways.

Hey DraQ did you try this Pioneer thingie ?
I tried a bit of earlier version, currently waiting for a more finished one, or at least save compatibility, but I'm not monitoring the news that closely - will just give it a whirl when it's (mostly) done.
Yes, I know, open source, ongoing project, blah blah, but I imagine alpha designation is there for a reason.

TBH there isn't much that can possibly go wrong, it's pretty much point-by-point Frontier remake retaining stuff that made Frontier awesome and expanding the rest.

I didn't quite like early models, and hated pew-pew pulse "blasters" with humongous particles.

P.S.
I like how having to sit around staring at motionless stars for around a week (as you'd have in multiplayer, where you'd have no option of time compression cutting the time this week would take to less than RL minute) is referred euphemistically as merely "remarkable" boredom threshold.
:D
 

Kirtai

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This is the reason why, every time someone suggests making essential core mechanics toggleable I feel that strange urge to drive to them and feed them their own keyboard.

Anally.

Sideways.
What, you wouldn't want a newtonian/relativistic physics toggle? ;)
(Yes, I know, not going to happen but it would still be awesome).
I like how having to sit around staring at motionless stars for around a week (as you'd have in multiplayer, where you'd have no option of time compression cutting the time this week would take to less than RL minute) is referred euphemistically as merely "remarkable" boredom threshold.
:D
So it would be like a more interesting Eve? :D


Wow, it looks like people are making multipart missions for it already.
 

DraQ

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What, you wouldn't want a newtonian/relativistic physics toggle? ;)
Of course I wouldn't. I would like to see the engine built around relativistic physics from get go. :obviously:

So it would be like a more interesting Eve? :D
Well, in Eve you're not *forced* to wait.
Though it *might* work, if apart from your ship you'd have all kinds of holdings to manage remotely while travelling. Of course, it would have to be MMO then.
 

IDtenT

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Divinity: Original Sin
It's not completely Newtonian, anyway - it's more like how Jules Verne described it in Voyage to the Moon. Only one moon, planet or star exerts a gravitational force on you at any given time.
The only problem I have with that is the lack of Lagrange points, which from a space adventuring race's point of view is pretty much the prime star base real estates.
 

DraQ

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It's not completely Newtonian, anyway - it's more like how Jules Verne described it in Voyage to the Moon. Only one moon, planet or star exerts a gravitational force on you at any given time.
The only problem I have with that is the lack of Lagrange points, which from a space adventuring race's point of view is pretty much the prime star base real estates.
Is there any point in retaining this limitation from Frontier?

I understand, that n-Body problem is very hard, but surely, when one of the bodies is of negligible mass, and the others are restricted to pre-calculated paths (so they effectively don't interact), it can't be that bad?
 

SearchEngine

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This is the reason why, every time someone suggests making essential core mechanics toggleable I feel that strange urge to drive to them and feed them their own keyboard.

Anally.

Sideways.

I know this is late but :(

Joking aside, I originally suggested this because I thought that actual space simulations can be like flight sims in which the games are mostly meant to be played on realistic simulation, but the toggles are there to help people ease their way into the game. That way hardcore gamers can go for realism from the get go with the game in their favor, while others can play as newtonian as they wish. Granted apparently that's not the case, but I can deal with that. I played and enjoyed I-War and Terminus.
 

tindrli

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Yes, rotational inertia is included, you won't stop until you apply counter thrust, or until one of the "atmospheric" systems helps to stop you. Yes, that also applies to linear motion as well. Get going in one direction in pure newtonian flight and you'll have to counter burn to slow down. Yes, you can accelerate until you no longer have fuel to do so. In fact, for some of the long range drive systems you have to attain a certain momentum before activating it (and it's well beyong 88mph ;) )
Hope this helps...

but i dont think he'll make it .. at least not on kickstarter... maybe he need to make a website and collect donations there as well just like Elite does nowadays
 

DraQ

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This is the reason why, every time someone suggests making essential core mechanics toggleable I feel that strange urge to drive to them and feed them their own keyboard.

Anally.

Sideways.

I know this is late but :(

Joking aside, I originally suggested this because I thought that actual space simulations can be like flight sims in which the games are mostly meant to be played on realistic simulation, but the toggles are there to help people ease their way into the game.
The thing is that flight sims don't really rely on their realistic simulation elements to let you traverse gameworld.

Compared to spacesims, the elements of realism in flight sims are generally, well, details. Not dimnishing their importance, but whether you can stall or how you're affected by aerodynamics in flight has pretty much no impact on how you get from point A to B and therefore no impact on scaling and construction of gameworld.

In spacesim, the most important realistic element is movement itself, and the game is tailored aorund how you use this movement to get from A to B.
Sure, stuff like heat and fuel/remass management can be made toggleable, but not Newtonian physics.
 

potatojohn

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I'm actually surprised there are no relativistic single player space sims. The visual effects and behaviour I've seen in relativity demo tools are deeply weird and would probably be quite interesting to play with.
It would take a long time to get anywhere (stars are light years apart), and having relativity+FTL would allow you to violate causality (e.g. leave and then arrive back... before you left :?) .
 

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