Roguey vs the Grognards Thread

[CyberP]

Bioshock 1 does have bad gunplay but Bioshock 2's is actually good which is more than can be said about SS2's.

Your turn to enlighten me. I played BS2 and it was more of the same, except simultaneous use of plasmids & guns and a little less generous with ammo placement if I remember correctly. Still got fed up half way through, little was changed overall.

 

[Nuclear Explosion]

Bioshock 1 does have bad gunplay but Bioshock 2's is actually good which is more than can be said about SS2's.

Your turn to enlighten me. I played BS2 and it was more of the same, except simultaneous use of plasmids & guns and a little less generous with ammo placement if I remember correctly. Still got fed up half way through, little was changed overall.

The guns definitely fell better to use than in SS2.

 

[Jaesun]

I don't actually like BS2 but the guns definitely fell better to use than in SS2.

So basically what you are saying is, a game that is 15 years old (1999), should have the same exact combat as Bioshock 2?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I'm not sure if tying a game's age to its quality is something we should be doing in a site mainly dedicated to old games

 

[Sceptic]

I'm not sure if tying a game's age to its quality is something we should be doing in a site mainly dedicated to old games

You didn't read Josh's quote did you

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

Here's something that will blow your mind, Watcher: http://i.imgur.com/FWhJa01.png
http://i.imgur.com/Y1DdMDw.png
http://i.imgur.com/6hQkhbX.png

 

[CyberP]

I'm not sure if tying a game's age to its quality is something we should be doing in a site mainly dedicated to old games

It is for graphical quality. There's been much progress there. SS2 could have a lot better shooting "feel"...if it were on a more modern engine. It's reload anims simply lower the gun off screen, the idle sway looks fucking terrible, projectile & hitscan effects are not entirely convincing, the models look like ass, and of course the AI, whilst good, would undoubtedly be better on a more modern engine. I'm picturing Cyborg Assassins that actually look convincing for one.
But all this I do not fault it for of course, this game was made in 1999. That's still early 3D, low poly models and such. Mods help of course but it is ultimately bound by the engine. We love old games not for their engines but their design principles.

 

[CyberP]

Seriously fuck the engines. The battles I've had with Unreal Engine 1...

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

:grognard: emoticon please.

 

[HiddenX]

Maybe with a 20-dice

 

[Gnidrologist]

I don't understand what's all this drama between Codex, Sawyer and user of unexplicit gender named Rogueye that seems to be latest big event in the timeline of prestigious magazine. Can someone fill me in on basics?

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Sometimes I get the impression that Roguey decided to deify Sawyer out of boredom, for simple trolling purpose. S/He probably has no particular love or consideration for the guy, but the fact that he regularly delivers trollbait material, updates and insights about PoE and RPG Design, makes him perfect for trolling the 'Dex durably.

Remember the 'Lesifoere' part too, the combination of Sawyerism/gamism and SJW issues is a perfect way to troll the 'Dex and derail multiple threads with minimum effort. Or, As Roguey put it:

I think the number of people ignoring me around this time last year was in the single digits. Becoming Lesifoere and Josh Sawyer is a winning combination if you want to frustrate a lot of people in a short amount of time.

I had to laugh at the article that accused Sawyer of a rape fixation though, somehow that got all of Josh's critics defending him against Roguey's attack! I'm not someone who greatly admires stuff like trolling and annoying derails but that was very clever.

 

[St. Toxic]

Josh is a history major and loves historical settings.

Assassin’s Creed

As to what it's about, I'm guessing some people get itchy around women idiots.

 

[CyberP]

Roguey is an exceptionally good marketing pawn for Sawyer & Obsidian (intentional or not).
It's why I want Him/Her on my dick too.
I play along because I really like what Sawyer & Co. did with New Vegas, and I also sometimes find myself agreeing with his blog posts that are linked here. Plus I obsess over mechanics and systems design too, something that seems to be a little rare strangely enough.

 

[St. Toxic]

New Vegas was horrible. Sawyer truly deserves his fans.

 

[Roguey]

Don't do it. Not if you care for that thing unique to games called gameplay anyway. Mind you I remember you arguing why " Bioshock is better than System Shock 2 in core gameplay" so going off of that you'll probably love it.

Bioshock 2. I kept repeating that and you kept not comprehending. Bioshock was not as enjoyable as SS2.

The world looks about 1000x better and combat/movement isn't as shitty feeling as in those games. It probably also helped that they turned the addictivity up to 11 with the skill system and the bite-sized dungeon every ten feet.

Skyrim has the better animations, but combat feels better in New Vegas imo.

Melee combat in Skyrim is garbage. It needs VATS to feel good. Plus guns>bows. Locational damage and massive sneak crits in NV lead to ~degenerate~ tactics, but limb crippling and its various effects were fun, and so far the sneak attack damage doesn't knock off enough health to suit my tastes. I'm sure it'll get there eventually with those sneak attack-damage improving perks and better weapons, but I don't see the value in making something lousy at first to make it better later when they could have followed the Josh Sawyer philosophy of making something start out good and then become better.

 

[TheGreatOne]

I don't see the value in making something lousy at first to make it better later when they could have followed the Josh Sawyer philosophy of making something start out good and then become better

What tradition? POE isn't out yet and his entire resumé so far consits of RTwP and shooter RPGs with horrible gameplay. The Josh Sawyer tradition would be making a turn based game. So far he's been pretty adamant about making slight improvements on systems that are so shit that what ever balance improvements he makes go unnoticed thanks to the bottom of the barrel level gameplay.

 

[St. Toxic]

It needs VATS to feel good.

Oh Codex, what have you become?

 

[Ninjerk]

Sometimes I get the impression that Roguey decided to deify Sawyer out of boredom, for simple trolling purpose. S/He probably has no particular love or consideration for the guy, but the fact that he regularly delivers trollbait material, updates and insights about PoE and RPG Design, makes him perfect for trolling the 'Dex durably.

Remember the 'Lesifoere' part too, the combination of Sawyerism/gamism and SJW issues is a perfect way to troll the 'Dex and derail multiple threads with minimum effort. Or, As Roguey put it:

I think the number of people ignoring me around this time last year was in the single digits. Becoming Lesifoere and Josh Sawyer is a winning combination if you want to frustrate a lot of people in a short amount of time.

I had to laugh at the article that accused Sawyer of a rape fixation though, somehow that got all of Josh's critics defending him against Roguey's attack! I'm not someone who greatly admires stuff like trolling and annoying derails but that was very clever.

The rape fixation article is excellent trolling.

 

[AN4RCHID]

Melee combat in Skyrim is garbage. It needs VATS to feel good.

Console gamers don't want VATS, they want action that feels like an action game. Besides, VATS was especially terrible for melee combat because it makes positioning total chaos.

Plus guns>bows.

Guns will always feel like shit when damage is as abstracted as in New Vegas. Shooting a realistic human character in the head and them not flinching has not been acceptable in FPS games for a long time. It was presented as an FPS, and compared to contemporary games like Rage, Metro 2033, MW3, and Halo Reach, NV is painfully unresponsive. Bows were not very good feeling in Skyrim either, but there are basically no games that did bows right so it doesn't suffer in comparison.

I don't see the value in making something lousy at first to make it better later when they could have followed the Josh Sawyer philosophy of making something start out good and then become better

New Vegas can do that because it has a very short progression curve. You start out okay and end up pretty good. Elder Scrolls games traditionally take the player from scrub in a jail cell to demigod. You have to start out lower if you want that high contrast between low and high level characters.

 

[praetor]

Right about what? One of the most mechanics-obsessed RPG designers alive today being a "storyfag"?

he's not obsessed with mechanics, he's obsessed with "balance" which he disguises as being about "mechanics". that's why his mechanics are so fucking boring. nothing is cool or fun or interesting when everything is equally "good" and you're left with Excel: The RPG

 

[Immortal]

Don't do it. Not if you care for that thing unique to games called gameplay anyway. Mind you I remember you arguing why " Bioshock is better than System Shock 2 in core gameplay" so going off of that you'll probably love it.

Bioshock 2. I kept repeating that and you kept not comprehending. Bioshock was not as enjoyable as SS2.

The world looks about 1000x better and combat/movement isn't as shitty feeling as in those games. It probably also helped that they turned the addictivity up to 11 with the skill system and the bite-sized dungeon every ten feet.

Skyrim has the better animations, but combat feels better in New Vegas imo.

I think playing a sneak type character in melee was okay.. loved getting those backstab animations.. however.. I don't think First Person is a good perspective to do melee combat from.. I think Fallout NV felt much better then skyrim because 90% of your weapon choices are long ranged weapons.. The melee combat semi worked because of VATS... I guess.. But I don't ever play a melee character in Fallout and rarely in Skyrim.. Unless it's a stealth backstab character.

tl;dr the comparison isn't entirely fair because of the settings.. and I don't think melee works in First Person Perspective.. I'v never seen it done well.. only tolerable

Right about what? One of the most mechanics-obsessed RPG designers alive today being a "storyfag"?

he's not obsessed with mechanics, he's obsessed with "balance" which he disguises as being about "mechanics". that's why his mechanics are so fucking boring. nothing is cool or fun or interesting when everything is equally "good"

Especially in a single player game.. I understand in a MMO or something balance needs to be perfect.. but in a single player game.. half the fun of beating the game on Extremely Hard Iron Man Mode is finding those unbalanced perks. Neutering your game of any uniqueness just so that players can't find interesting combinations you couldn't figure out to nerf is horrible designing.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

To whom it may concern,

Please keep Rogueye fully occupied here.


Sincerely,

the rest of the Codex

 

[Shannow]

So what is this "Roguey" character, you're all so exited about?
Is it chefe's new alt? Made because DU wouldn't give him the Lesifoere-acc?

Spoiler

 

[Ninjerk]

So what is this "Roguey" character, you're all so exited about?
Is it chefe's new alt? Made because DU wouldn't give him the Lesifoere-acc?

Spoiler

I still don't know who they're talking about

Spoiler