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Roguey vs the Grognards Thread

tuluse

Arcane
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Jul 20, 2008
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I'm pretty sure speech+small guns aka sniper-diplomat is exactly the "par for the course" play through.

Usually with enough skill points left over to grab at least one other skill.
 
In My Safe Space
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
21,899
Codex 2012
Doesn't Fallout allow to develop a character that has both great diplomacy and combat skills?

To some extent, but hardly as par for the course, I don't think. Other than the fairly lengthy time-limit, there's little stopping you from amassing enough experience to basically out-lvl some of the quest related challenges, but if you're speccing into a bit of everything to get a well rounded build, as I assume we're talking about, it would take some time to get there.
IIRC 2 levels are enough to make regular eyeshots possible.
 

St. Toxic

Arcane
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Messages
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Yemen / India
I'm pretty sure speech+small guns aka sniper-diplomat is exactly the "par for the course" play through.

Usually with enough skill points left over to grab at least one other skill.

Well, you have to tag a third skill either way, and small arms starts off pretty high as it is, not to mention all the Guns and Bullets mags. But what do you sacrifice to get a good statbase for both diplomacy and combat?

IIRC 2 levels are enough to make regular eyeshots possible.

How possible? We're not talking about clearing out Mariposa here, right?
 
In My Safe Space
Joined
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Messages
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Codex 2012
IIRC 2 levels are enough to make regular eyeshots possible.

How possible? We're not talking about clearing out Mariposa here, right?
For example with Albert. He starts with 59 skill points (normally it would be 49 points but he's skilled). He has Int 6 so he gets 2x6 + 5 = 17 skill points per level, so in two levels he would have 59 + 2x34 = 123 skill points in Small Guns on level 3. Which is about 60% chance to hit in the eyes.
 

St. Toxic

Arcane
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Messages
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Location
Yemen / India
IIRC 2 levels are enough to make regular eyeshots possible.

How possible? We're not talking about clearing out Mariposa here, right?
For example with Albert. He starts with 59 skill points (normally it would be 49 points but he's skilled). He has Int 6 so he gets 2x6 + 5 = 17 skill points per level, so in two levels he would have 59 + 2x34 = 123 skill points in Small Guns on level 3. Which is about 60% chance to hit in the eyes.

Well, I went and tried it out. At lvl 3, if all you lvl up with Albert is Small guns you'll end up with 127 points total, which is something like 15% chance to hit the eyes from 10-12 hexes away. For 50% you need to be 4 hexes away from your target, and at point blank it's something like 93%. That said, you hardly need 130 points in Small guns to be combat effective at level 3, nor do you necessarily need to aim for the eyes, 80-90 at lvl 5 with a couple of followers is more than enough to scrape by. Again, not that it means you can breeze through all the combat encounters the game has to offer.
 
Joined
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The border of the imaginary
Since we are talking about fallout. Most fun build ever was when i played a spiked knuckle wielding high agi/per/luk Power armor wearing jinxed character. Once you get decent unarmed skill, the power armor, a few feats and generally get off the ground. Fucking hilarious how minigun wielding brutes die to their own critical failures, while I walk to them like a boss and punch their faces. early levels were p. fun too...narrowly beating encounters with a limb or two crippled.

There is the sting and satisfaction of trying out an unorthodox unbalanced build.

No fucking way any game with Sawyerist balanced viable bullshit will provide that kind of rollercoaster gameplay experience.
 

SymbolicFrank

Magister
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
1,668
Indeed. I've seen people saying you can have an RPG without combat but that's not the case. An RPG without a combat system is called a SIM *looks at Academagia and Long Live The Queen*
Deus Ex did that pretty well. If you didn't want combat, of course. That's also why the experience is quest-based.

Quest-based XP in a combat-centric CRPG where avoiding battles is seen as "skipping content" is moronic.

Then again, an CRPG where you do have the choice sounds sweet.
 

SymbolicFrank

Magister
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Messages
1,668
Well, mentioning Diablo or not, RPGs as such were taken over by... well, stuff from other genres, with not too many key aspects of an RPG. And it's been like that for a decade, and it's gone so far that the term RPG has been missaplied more often than not. Role playing game =/= developing a character as a better combatant. Shooters do the exact same thing and you'd never call Doom an RPG. And the qoute is pretty accurate, BG got off on the wings of graphical presentation / revolution, not gameplay. So did diablo, mind you, it was just a very simple, mouse controlled beat-them-up with a powerup and inventory system simmilar to what an RPG would have.

As for whether you can or can't make an RPG without combat, you probably can't, the question is how much of a role in character development and story progression does combat actually pose. Or even how much of the gameplay itself IS combat, how many situations are resolved by it, how many rewards are related to it... Combat is present in a ton of gaming genres, role playing a specialist combatant is what you do in vay more games than RPGs. I love a good TB combat system (not much of a twitch man myself, allthough I did do AvP 1 at all difficulties as a child), but i preffer if combat just a part of what happens in a game rather than the be-all end-all point of it.

I mean, I wouldn't have minded a better combat system in the original fallouts or planescape torment, and I did enjoy Vampire the Masquerade even though it was a 1st person real time combat RPG, but an RPG has more than one component and the best remembered and loved ones are often loved despite their combat mechanics. In spite of them.
Do you mean a party-based RPG? Where the stats of the party members determine their behavior, and where you only play one of them?

I mean, do you want to be the whole party, or just one of them? And do stats matter, or do they have to be perfectly obedient puppets?

So, I would actually suggest that an RPS with real-time combat, where you can only pause to command your own character, while all the others do their thing according to their class, abilities, stats etc, would actually be a cleaner Role-Playing experience than Turn-based where you execute each and every action by yourself.
 

Nihiliste

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Messages
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Roguey has one of the strangest gimmicks I've seen anywhere on a forum. What would motivate someone to spend countless hours pretending to be obsessed with an almost willfully boring game designer at a mid level developed. It seems like a poor life choice, especially when you consider that she seems to put enough hours into it to actually do something productive instead.
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
Roguey has one of the strangest gimmicks I've seen anywhere on a forum. What would motivate someone to spend countless hours pretending to be obsessed with an almost willfully boring game designer at a mid level developed. It seems like a poor life choice, especially when you consider that she seems to put enough hours into it to actually do something productive instead.
for years
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I don't know what Roguey does when he's not here, but as a Codex poster he's actually not much of an addict. He's only online for about two hours a day (sometimes more on weekends).

He does show up consistently every day, which is probably what gives people the impression that he's a relentless obsessive.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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Sawyerite
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As others have observed, I didn't go full-Sawyerist until the Eternity Kickstarter campaign in 2012 and it was in reaction the response it got.

Skyrim journal update: In a surprisingly egregious oversight, Bethesda didn't include an option to buy iron ingots from your house steward, forcing you to go all over the place to buy them to turn them into nails and such. I see there's a mod that corrects this, but I'm too annoyed to install it now. Orphan girl's just going to have to stay in the city, and I guess this house is going to stay empty and unvisited.
 

Doctor Sbaitso

SO, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR PROBLEMS.
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Messages
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Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands
Is this in line with your habit of shitting on a game without playing it, only to play it years later?
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
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Messages
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Seattle, WA USA
MCA
Sniper: A clever character that can solve all quests and finish off bad guys easily. Which sort of summarizes what you do in this game.
  • Initial stats: ST 6, PE 7, EN 4, CH 1, IN 7, AG 9, LK 7.
  • Developed stats: ST 10, PE 8, EN 5, CH 2, IN 8, AG 10, LK 8.
  • Traits: Small Frame, Finesse.
  • Tag skills: Small Guns, Lockpick, Speech (duh).
  • Perk progression: Level 3 Awareness, level 6 Bonus Move, level 9 Bonus Rate of Fire, level 12 Better Criticals, level 15 Action Boy, level 18 Sniper, level 21 Action Boy.
  • Comments: Later in the game you'll have to choose between building Energy Weapons or sticking to your old Sniper Rifle. Optionally drop either trait in favour of Fast Shot.
 

Mangoose

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
As others have observed, I didn't go full-Sawyerist until the Eternity Kickstarter campaign in 2012 and it was in reaction the response it got.
Oh please. 2012? Newfag. I was formspringing and facebook friending him for years before that.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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Joined
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Messages
28,237
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I don't know what Roguey does when he's not here, but as a Codex poster he's actually not much of an addict. He's only online for about two hours a day (sometimes more on weekends).

He does show up consistently every day, which is probably what gives people the impression that he's a relentless obsessive.
:updatedmytxt:
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
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May 29, 2010
Messages
35,653
As others have observed, I didn't go full-Sawyerist until the Eternity Kickstarter campaign in 2012 and it was in reaction the response it got.
Oh please. 2012? Newfag. I was formspringing and facebook friending him for years before that.
Full Sawyerist. I followed his formspring since at least week one.
 

Mangoose

Arcane
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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
Unwanted

CyberP

Unwanted
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Aug 2, 2013
Messages
1,711
Rougey you flame baiting scoundrel, watch thy mouth. Duke Nukem 3D has some of the most exceptional level design in video game history.
Shadow Warrior too is awesome, If you take the "racism" seriously your sanity is up for questioning, especially since the Shadow Warrior himself is a badass. It's like saying Duke Nukem is racist for playing off of American beefcake stereotypes.
Rougey is a erratic presumptuous social justice warrior, you heard it here first.
 

TheGreatOne

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
1,214
His idol is a supporter of Anita Sarkeesian. I guess there's honor among thieves, a mutual respect between two kickstarter scam artists. Given the self importance of the man, he must really admire how Anita has politicked her way to a position where the whole internet game journalist scene gives her a megaphone for her inane opinions, where as Sawyer's inanities get barely any headline space outside of forums dedicated to RPGs. Though in reality it's more of "Anita senpai noticed me~~" thing than a comradery between two snakes oil salesmen, after all Anita likely has never heard of JES nor played any of his game, and if she has, she probably consider him some one who designs rape simulations for a living.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,653
Rougey you flame baiting scoundrel, watch thy mouth. Duke Nukem 3D has some of the most exceptional level design in video game history.
I thought it was inconsistent. Some good, some bad. Not like the first Doom which was nigh-perfect barring the last two levels of episode three.

Shadow Warrior too is awesome, If you take the "racism" seriously your sanity is up for questioning, especially since the Shadow Warrior himself is a badass. It's like saying Duke Nukem is racist for playing off of American beefcake stereotypes.
Not interested in paying for a bunch of crude stereotypes made by white guys. If GOG put it up for free, I'd try it just like I did with Duke.
 

BBMorti

Arcane
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
607
What is it with you and white guys? Sawyer is white, why is he free of your hate
 

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