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Roguey vs the Grognards Thread

Higher Animal

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He likes world of goo and other pretentious indy gar-bitch.

Not surprising that the declinator hates Pool of Radiance and Darklands. Like I said, Roguey is a shrieking goblin who's trying to pervert the JES way. The cult of Sawyerism is in dire need of a reformation. We need to get rid of the corrupt Catholic element that's holding us back. Who would be our Luther to lead us away from the dark ages and eventually on to a new world of prosperity, where agents of decline who hate CRPGs and still cling to the old corrupt faith are looked down up by Sawyerite klansmen?

A bad analogy. The Klansmen were protestants. More importantly, Protestantism is like Fallout 3 while Catholicism is like Darklands.
 

Servo

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It's been a while since I paid any attention. Are people actually taking Roguey seriously now?
 

TheGreatOne

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A bad analogy. The Klansmen were protestants. More importantly, Protestantism is like Fallout 3 while Catholicism is like Darklands.
That's what I said. Reformation was triggered by corruption within Catholic church and Anti-Catholicism was part of KKK ideology, hence the analogy.
 
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blah blah that Underrail is extremely gamist and Sawyerist in its systems and it's very likely a lot more people on the Codex would hate it if I were championing it. :smug:

Sawyer... making a game that's half as gamist (and entertaining) as Underrail.

Now that was a great laugh.
 

Roguey

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Name-search reply

Severian Silk: why doesn't roguey shoutbox with us?

It's because I don't want to make time for chatting, plus I'm particularly bad when it comes to real-time communication. Gotta go turn based.
 

Roguey

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Just like PoE should have.

:troll:

I'll only make this call on release, and if it's true, I will have harsh words for Feargus Urquhart and Adam Brennecke.

Not Josh though, since he's already mentioned his preference for turn based.
 

Rake

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Just like PoE should have.

:troll:

I'll only make this call on release, and if it's true, I will have harsh words for Feargus Urquhart and Adam Brennecke.

Not Josh though, since he's already mentioned his preference for turn based.
BS. Feargus wanted RTwP, and ordered Josh to make it. Josh and Tim said that their system would be better than the IE because it will be designed with RTwP in mind from the start. If the system they make turns out to be something fitting more to be TB, both Josh and Tim are hacks, and the blame lies only with them.
Josh mostly. His preferences and bad taste mean jack shit. His job was to make a RTwP for the IE audience, and he has said many times on record that they are the best fit for the job, they have done it in the past blah blah blah.\
If his design preferences work only in TB classless, he should be the one to recognise it from the start and ignore them, instead of trying to shoehorn them into a game not fit for them.
 
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Athelas

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I'm gonna assume the people who say PoE was designed as a classless turn-based game haven't actually played the beta. One of the current problems of the game is that the classes might actually be too specialized/rigid (i.e. the Fighter is always best suited for the frontline). All the spellcasters have unique resource pools (focus, chants, memorization, etc.) and unlike AD&D they don't share any spells. Etcera.
 

Rake

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I'm gonna assume the people who say PoE was designed as a classless turn-based game haven't actually played the beta. One of the current problems of the game is that the classes might actually be too specialized/rigid (i.e. the Fighter is always best suited for the frontline). All the spellcasters have unique resource pools (focus, chants, memorization, etc.) and unlike AD&D they don't share any spells. Etcera.
I'm not saying PoE combat will end bad, only that if it does Josh has the biggest share on blame. And so far his system would be better if it was TB.
Pausing every two seconds is bad design.
 

Roguey

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BS. Feargus wanted RTwP, and ordered Josh to make it. Josh and Tim said that their system would be better than the IE because it will be designed with RTwP in mind from the start.
If it sucks, it won't be because of the system. Obsidian's programmers.

Pausing every two seconds is bad design.
I have a feeling Josh and I both played with nearly all the auto-pause options on all the time because the amount of pausing required in PoE is no different than the amount of pausing I'm accustomed to. He and I are peas in a pod.

Anyway you passive babies are getting a bunch of passive ways to build characters. Hopefully Obsidian won't be dumb and they'll be building the NPCs as passive characters, with the expectation that your PC will be the one with all the actives.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Roguey brings up an interesting point. If you look at LPs of Baldur's Gate on Youtube, you see people pausing a lot. A LOT.

I wouldn't be surprised if IE game playtesters at Black Isle played the same way. Sawyer might think of "pause minimizers" the same way as he thinks of "rest minimizers" - a curious breed only encountered on Internet forums, never in real life.
 

Roguey

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Funnily enough, I am a rest minimizer, but I always give myself reasonable handicaps to squeeze the most fun out of bad systems. :P
 
Weasel
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"Pause minimizer" implies that someone wants as little pausing as possible - I don't think that's what most have been saying here. Suggesting there's an upper limit to the amount of micro one can reasonably do in RTWP before it impacts on the flow and enjoyment of combat (and you're better off going TB at that point) is not wanting as few pauses as possible.

I paused the BG/IWD games a lot, particularly the tougher battles, but not sure I'd want to be pausing much more than that in POE.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
"Pause minimizer" implies that someone wants as little pausing as possible - I don't think that's what most have been saying here. Suggesting there's an upper limit to the amount of micro one can reasonably do in RTWP before it impacts on the flow and enjoyment of combat (and you're better off going TB at that point) is not wanting as few pauses as possible.

I paused the BG/IWD games a lot, particularly the tougher battles, but not sure I'd want to be pausing much more than that in POE.

To clarify, I see people pausing in those Baldur's Gate LPs at the same frequency some people on this forum report pausing in PoE. They don't usually do anything significant during those pauses, they're just, like, scared and not in control or something.
 

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I am also a rest-minimizing-heavy-pauser.

My experience with any IE fight that I'm not almost immune to is that of pausing every 1-3 seconds.

You have to rest minimize to make the spell casting system fun imho.
 

Gozma

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Roguey brings up an interesting point. If you look at LPs of Baldur's Gate on Youtube, you see people pausing a lot. A LOT.

I wouldn't be surprised if IE game playtesters at Black Isle played the same way. Sawyer might think of "pause minimizers" the same way as he thinks of "rest minimizers" - a curious breed only encountered on Internet forums, never in real life.

I have a buddy that had zero experience with RTw/P that tried FTL and he basically had to be forced by the harsh rigors of a Roguelike death system to consider pausing as a thing you ought to do instead of it being cheating. I'm sure if it were a save and load game he'd never have "adapted".
 
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ZagorTeNej

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I don't think rest-minimizers are in the minority, quite the opposite actually. People who rest spam play/use casters a lot while I reckon your average BG1/2 player rolls a paladin, uses a party mage to cast haste, breach and occasionally a high damage AoE spell, uses a thief to detect/disarm traps and open locks and a cleric to heal, they don't bother with spell sequencers and contingencies nor do they use backstab (well maybe once for novelty sake). There's no tendency to rest spam when you deal with most opposition via hasted melee/ranged combatants.

Obviously this is only a guess on my part, no way to know for certain how most BG1/2 players played the game nor how accurate representation of said group are 50 youtube accounts doing a let's play (some of them doing solo runs, speedruns, playing dual/multi classed chars, using SCS etc.).

That said, from what I've seen Sawyer often goes simply with what he feels will make the game better, how some (even a good chunk of) IE fans might feel about it is a factor but not a determing one (mind you, I'm not necessarily condemning such attitude). For example, I doubt most people had problems with thief being mostly a utility class and even if they did it's questionable whether they wanted the problem tackled with turning thief into a DPS class that more resembles a dirty fighter or an assassin than a traditional thief.
 

Roguey

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Another example of self-handicapping: I died more times than I really should have to a blood dragon in Skyrim because I refuse to win by chugging health potions from the safety of my inventory (also because these damn crossbows are finicky and sometimes I have to press R so I can run or shout again). I eventually beat it with the aid of a nearby bandit outpost and that made for a much better narrative than "And I then I kept outhealing its damage until I won."

Name-search reply:
Jim the Dinosaur: roguey seems to have given up on poe, sad day
Nah, just not defending its beta, and I never had faith in its non-Josh Sawyer employees.
 
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Anyway you passive babies are getting a bunch of passive ways to build characters. Hopefully Obsidian Sawyer won't be dumb and they'll he'll be building the NPCs as passive characters, with the expectation that your PC will be the one with all the actives.

Fixed that for you.
 
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