Romance in cRPGs - is it ever good?

[V_K]

Well.... I dunno. As Chesterton would say, don't suggest tearing down a fence until you know why it's there. As Niebuhr would say, whatever is, is good. And as Darwin would say, the persistence of a trait shows that it improves the likelihood of success/survival. Players seem to like player-centric games in which all the world exists to provide them with opportunities to show how cool they are and to help them become cooler.

Yeah, it's kinda funny to read such complaints when the only (?) game where the PC plays auxiliary role is, coincidentally, the most hated game on the Codex.

 

[Mustawd]

kris Most Bioware romances felt forced to me. I always had the feeling that they were there to please me, the player instead of being an integral part of story.

Doesn't this describe everything in most RPGs, from NPCs to shopkeepers to monsters to geopolitics?

Yes, but for me romances in this way just feel...really offputting.

 

[Freddie]

I can't help but wonder if these so called romances are aimed for young audience and player incentive comes from people's will to explore their own self. Another selling point would be that they are kind of safe space. What comes to T&A factor, I don't know how relevant it's at these days, because of Internet.

I can understand 'get the girl' point of hero's journey, but 'get the girl' is really wide definition for romance. Get the girl by buying gifts, or by playing dialogue mini-game, or would it be something that is tied to progression of story and like how many times player interacted with saind NPC?

Then what people think is romantic? Is it just sex in a motel, affair perhaps where two people fill each others needs without making other commitments to each other? Or could it be something else, sharing things, laugh together. Sex, well that may happen too.

Obviously there are different kind of views to this and I'm getting weird idea that perhaps games could work out something else than 'middle of the road' sort of thing because there can be different companions with different preferences. That said, I don't think any studio is going to go with that idea. Different sort of skin packages for fuck buddies, that's what's going to be. I do hope that all remains optional content.

 

[DeepOcean]

Play Gabriel Knight games and you will see how romance should be done, dont go aping Bioware, they are the worst at this. Sometimes feeling is better left under the surface than on never ending childish declarations.

Sometimes feeling is better expressed through action and gestures than words tha mean nothing.

Feeling sometimes is not answered or even exploited like Dionarra was, relationship isnt some linear shit with clear start and end, sometimes the other person is much decided to end it and fuck what you think.

Relationships are irrational too, there is nothing you can do to make someone like you, licking their boots sure wont make any woman like you as it happen on Bioware games.

Relationships grow naturaly when a person has what other person wants consciously or not and they both spend enough time together.

If you want do women harem type of shit, at least make it cool like you being Conan the barbarian and they are your sex slaves instead of you being a beta cuck making declarations that would make a 15 years boy embarassed.

 

[Haba]

If I ever win the lottery, I'll sponsor Vault Dweller to write an RPG with romances.

Imagine the potential for emotional trauma when your waifu of 20+ hours goes all Miltiades on you.

 

[Lostpleb]

Agreed. With the release of Age of Decadence, Vault Dweller already has quite a bit of experience writing visual novels, so yandere gang rape territory wouldn't be too far off.

 

[daveyd]

While not a CRPG, I think the JRPG series Growlanser did romance pretty well. It was all done through conversations and a few sidequests. Generally of course most of them prefer that you say nice things to them but I don't think it was always completely obvious what the "right" answer was. Anyway, If you did enough to win the affection of the various romantic interests you could unlock an epilogue for that companion / NPC. (Alternatively you could have a bromantic ending for the male party members). There isn't any Dragon Age gift-giving shennanigans so I think it was possible to piss off girls to the point where you just can't unlock their ending. In at least Growlanser IV I've heard that doing well in battles (optional mission objectives) also counted towards winning the favor of romantic interests. Yet it was all completely optional and seemed really well done without being a huge distraction. If you don't mind JRPGs I'd suggest checking out Generations (II & III) or IV (Wayfarer of Time).

 

[laclongquan]

Look, regarding romance in RPG, you need to understand the player's mentality. Not your preference, but player's preference.

The fact is, players like everything (in game) revolve around their characters. It's like, basic nature. And romance is one aspect fitting that requirement perfectly.

The fact is, players really dont like be reminded of how his/her character is an idiot being putty in the hand of NPC. Not one bit. So design quest and character to that direction is a No Go cut.

Even here at Codex, the majority of players avoid the topic of VV where she manipulated your MC like a playdough. You get sent out to do many quest, under many unreasonable demands, and get paid zip, unthinkable for the mercenary sentimentality of gamers.

 

[gaussgunner]

The fact is, players really dont like be reminded of how his/her character is an idiot being putty in the hand of NPC. Not one bit. So design quest and character to that direction is a No Go cut.

Even here at Codex, the majority of players avoid the topic of VV where she manipulated your MC like a playdough. You get sent out to do many quest, under many unreasonable demands, and get paid zip, unthinkable for the mercenary sentimentality of gamers.

Typical hot chick using her looks to get whatever she wants for free. Common theme in Bloodlines. MC can do the same, except with VV. Not sure if that's intentional or just unfinished.

Question: what would people think about a game where degenerate NPCs are constantly trying to romance/fuck the PC(s), and it's usually in your best interest to reject them or fight them....?

 

[Lilura]

Valen!

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Question: what would people think about a game where degenerate NPCs are constantly trying to romance/fuck the PC(s), and it's usually in your best interest to reject them or fight them....?

My knee-jerk reaction? It would be pointlessly derivative and a waste of effort.

 

[Lhynn]

Question: what would people think about a game where degenerate NPCs are constantly trying to romance/fuck the PC(s), and it's usually in your best interest to reject them or fight them....?

Sounds like almost every anime ever.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Even here at Codex, the majority of players avoid the topic of VV where she manipulated your MC like a playdough. You get sent out to do many quest, under many unreasonable demands, and get paid zip, unthinkable for the mercenary sentimentality of gamers.

I don't know, her quests maybe don't give any material benefit in form of money or items, but they still give some xp, don't they? And they certainly deliver some reasonably entertaining content as well - the striper-hunter, the wanna-be-filmmaker, the thinblod-snitch - why skip this? Because the quest giver fancies herself a manipulative bitch? Personally, I never really saw her as a vamp power-player manipulating the PC, but someone just a little older than the newest kid on the block clumsily trying to get you to do her favors in the only way she know how to. So I just humored her and went along with it.

 

[gaussgunner]

Question: what would people think about a game where degenerate NPCs are constantly trying to romance/fuck the PC(s), and it's usually in your best interest to reject them or fight them....?

My knee-jerk reaction? It would be pointlessly derivative and a waste of effort.

Yeah, probably. I'll make a few like that and see what testers think. I scripted the first one and it seems like too much effort for what it is. Too many possibilities to cover: is there an attractive female in the party? Is she alone? Is there a tough guy in the party to defend her, or just a cuck or two? Does the NPC take her somewhere private if you say yes, or attempt to kidnap her if you say no?

Sounds like almost every anime ever.

Oh? Then scratch that idea.
EDIT: on second thought I'll roll with it. I have said I'm doing everything wrong with this game. It already has some anime appeal, so what the fuck...

Maybe I'll just go with kidnapping. Then you have a burning quest.

 

[Azarkon]

If a 50ish hour game can't establish a romance, what about movies with romantic plots? I hate those in general, but an interesting point to think about. For me, only Visas Marr's "romance" makes sense and that's because it's not romance in the Biowarean sense. It was also pretty one-sided on her part, if even her love for you is a romantic love.

Pixar established, developed, and completed a life time's romance in under 10 minutes at the beginning of Up. In Wall-E, they created a believable romance between two robots without any dialogue. Film makers at the top of their craft have no issues generating and presenting compelling romantic plots. It's not even considered a problem in film. The only time such plots generally fail is when they're forced into narratives by marketing committees, as is often the case in summer action movies.

In games, on the other hand, I could count the successful executions of romantic narratives on one hand, regardless of whether they are directed at the player, or merely observed by the player. The Witcher 3 romances, both between Geralt and his lovers, and between Olgierd and his wife, can probably be considered successes, in that most people enjoyed or tolerated them. There are also examples from Planescape: Torment. But none of these are nearly as powerful as cinematic examples. In fact, I've never found a video game romance that was.

Yet, I don't think you can blame the medium. Video games are in a position where they can support cinematic style narratives, and at the same time also support Japanese or Bioware style dating simulators, and anything in between. The medium, to this end, has barely been utilized, especially by Western game developers. The Japanese have done more with it, and been highly successful at it, but due to cultural differences it wouldn't be fair to bring those up, as I don't think most of their designs would work for Western CRPG fans, or else they'd be much more successful in the West. Bottom line, then, is that Western developers have yet to come up with anything equivalent in our own culture, and so it remains a question as to whether it can be done.

 

[Grauken]

There's a simple reason romances in games don't work, compared to other mediums. In books, movies and whatnot you watch two fictional people get it on, which makes it much easier to suspense disbelief. In games you become one partner of the equation and only late-stage virgins or the very young fall for that, everybody else just sees it for the masturbation material it is (I mean, come on, anybody really believe he could convincingly fall in love with a game character ), and honestly, there are much easier ways than playing a fucking game

 

[gaussgunner]

Romance between NPCs could work better. What I've seen so far would've been best left unwritten, however. I could be wrong, but I assume most players only care to see the slightest clues about it, and only if it's pertinent to gameplay decisions. Less of the sappy & sexy stuff, more about the exploitable aspects... married couples and their grievances, naive young lust, Romeo & Juliet situations, unwanted admirers...

 

[Malpercio]

Like all character interactions, some of them are bad, some of them are good.

 

[Bohrain]

Clearly the only way to do romance right is to have a tsundere with a tsun phase that lasts for 20 years.

 

[Azarkon]

There's a simple reason romances in games don't work, compared to other mediums. In books, movies and whatnot you watch two fictional people get it on, which makes it much easier to suspense disbelief. In games you become one partner of the equation and only late-stage virgins or the very young fall for that, everybody else just sees it for the masturbation material it is (I mean, come on, anybody really believe he could convincingly fall in love with a game character ), and honestly, there are much easier ways than playing a fucking game

The player doesn't have to be the partner, and even in case he or she is, unless you constantly pretend that your character is you in CRPGs, why should it be you that falls in love with a game character? Perhaps it's more of a psychological block - people were able to enjoy Geralt's romances in Witcher 3 because the character wasn't created by them, so they could establish a certain distance from what was happening to Geralt? But I rather agree with what MRY said above: all games are, to a large degree, power fantasies where you knowingly play pretend. Just because you enjoy killing hundreds of enemies in a game, doesn't indicate you necessarily have to be a psychopath. By the same argument, you shouldn't need to actually fall in love with a game character to enjoy a well written romance.

 

[Grauken]

Well, then I'm good as there are no well written romances in gaming

anyway, battles are enjoyable in terms of gameplay, romances in gaming are not, as there's almost nil mechanics involved apart from picking the right dialogue choices, which are fucking obvious to even the most retarded player

 

[Mustawd]

http://store.steampowered.com/app/654880/Dream_Daddy_A_Dad_Dating_Simulator/



I would say the above is directly descendant from this:

 

[Wehraboo]

No. The inclusion of romances has done more to destroy RPG than any other disgusting decline since going to real time. The worst part is it attracts endless housewife and homo who don't even like RPG gaems into the genre to ruin the fuck out of it by completely undermining every single gameplay and narrative element that isn't completely shit ass retarded.

 

[Delterius]

Romance was well done in PS:T and MotB.

 

[hogcranker]

There's nothing wrong with Geralt getting his dick wet.