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RPG CODEX™ 2017 - Dungeon Crawlers - RESULTS

Sigourn

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After a successful experience making a Roguelikes survey, I decided I would tackle a genre I'm interested in, even if I don't play any dungeon crawlers myself. I saw this as an opportunity to dispell rumors about certain games, or otherwise turn those rumors into reality.

When it came to the Roguelikes survey, some people expressed their discomfort at the options being merely "Enjoyed" and "Didn't enjoy". The survey left no room for preferences. Myself, I like Fallout: New Vegas and Fallout both, yet I would strongly recommend someone to play New Vegas over Fallout. Personal preference, you understand. And so I listened, and decided to add the "Must Play" option.

Why just that, and not a "Must Avoid" option? Well, because if someone tells you you should avoid getting AIDS and avoid getting shot, it's not really important which of the two are most important to avoid (it's getting shot, by the way). And secondly, and most importantly, I find users like to really shit on games they wouldn't shit so much otherwise. Case in point: it's AIDS the one you should avoid, and users will tell you it would be much better to avoid the animu games over the ones that are ACTUALLY must avoids. So I took that option out entirely. People seem much more honest when it comes to recommending good games: "it's good for what it is™", "it's great", "go play it nao!". And I didn't want Codexers being influenced by the ramblings of other Codexers.

This time, as you may well know, I had to use Google Forms (with its strengths and weaknesses) because I lacked official support from the forum to have my own specialized survey made. This means that we probably lost a good number of voters that didn't vote in Google Forms. That said, we still got 80 voters, 16 more than in the Roguelikes poll, but the higher the amount of voters, the more accurate a representation the results will be of the Codex.

Without further preambule, I present you the results.

MOST PLAYED DUNGEON CRAWLERS

JUtd9vA.png

Ohh yesss, that is DIABLO I see as the most played dungeon crawler. It's followed by Icewind Dale and Icewind Dale II, unsurprisingly, given the Codex's love of Black Isle and Infinity Engine D&D cRPGs. An oldie, Daggerfall, and a newbie, The Legend of Grimrock, complete the top five most played dungeon crawlers.

MUST PLAY DUNGEON CRAWLERS

7I3zWnx.png

This lists displays the must play dungeon crawlers, as voted by the Codex. Interestingly enough, the top 15 games (if we were to exclude Clouds of Xeen and Darkside of Xeen, as they are already represented by Worlds of Xeen) are covered either by the Top 70 cRPGs or Age of Incline polls... all of them but one, that is: 1996's Diablo.

AVOID THESE - DON'T BELIEVE THEIR LIES

55jPbJ5.png

Bear in mind how this survey went through: users were asked to vote on these games based on how good the dungeon crawling experience was. These games aren't necessarily bad RPGs: they are just bad dungeon crawlers. So take this list with a grain of salt. However, if there are games that you are confident they are "dungeon crawlers", then by all means consider the negative results as proof that these games do, indeed, suck. Case in point, games like Bloodwych and Lands of Lore III.

Butthurt about the results? These non-dungeon crawlers hurting your eyes? Here you go! Now you are free to download this handy excel and twist the results as you please!
 
Last edited:
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IncendiaryDevice

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What if one game has good dungeon crawling but there's not so much of it, barely scraping into the category, whereas another game is almost pure dungeon crawling but is mostly mediocre?
 

Sigourn

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What if one game has good dungeon crawling but there's not so much of it, barely scraping into the category, whereas another game is almost pure dungeon crawling but is mostly mediocre?

It's up to you, really. In the examples you mentioned, I would probably rate the first "not recommended" and the second "meh", or both "meh".
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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What if one game has good dungeon crawling but there's not so much of it, barely scraping into the category, whereas another game is almost pure dungeon crawling but is mostly mediocre?

It's up to you, really. In the examples you mentioned, I would probably rate the first "not recommended" and the second "meh", or both "meh".

Which are the games on the list that only have 2 hours of dungeons?
 

Sigourn

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What if one game has good dungeon crawling but there's not so much of it, barely scraping into the category, whereas another game is almost pure dungeon crawling but is mostly mediocre?

It's up to you, really. In the examples you mentioned, I would probably rate the first "not recommended" and the second "meh", or both "meh".

Which are the games on the list that only have 2 hours of dungeons?

No idea, I haven't played all of them and some I haven't heard of, even. But it's not so much "how many hours" rather than the ratio of dungeon crawling compared to the rest of the game. It's why I also encourage people to rate games as "not recommended" if they don't consider them to be dungeon crawlers at all or anywhere near close to a dungeon crawler. For example, New Vegas has "dungeons", but you spend less than 20% of your time on the game going through dungeons, not to mention most of them are linear or devoid of anything interesting.
 

PrettyDeadman

Guest
The only wortwhile game on the list is Operation Abyss: New Tokyo Legacy because it has anime girls. Avoid all others at all costs.
Dark heart of Urukhul is pretty good too, Etrian Odyssey too.
Baldur's Gates & Icewind Dale shouldn't be in the list.
 

Sigourn

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May I remind Codexers that it is very, very easy to spot troll votings (like that one user who apparently played ALL of the games on that list, yet all are absolute shit and only Wizardry IV is worth playing), so at the mere sight of "this is a troll voting" I will simply not take those results into account.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
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You should have pruned the list and made a poll here instead.

After careful consideration, I agree. I will trim the list to include ONLY proper dungeon crawlers, and then stage a poll here.
 

Sigourn

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You should have pruned the list and made a poll here instead.

Even with some trimming down to 59 games it's almost impossible to poll them properly. Even at three options per game that would take me to 180 options and I can't go past 100.

Unless I do an IncendiaryDevice and first poll to see how many people have played all the games, and then another poll where only the most played games make it...
 

octavius

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I suggest deleting these games:

For not being dungeon crawlers:
- Baldur's Gate
- Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
- Pool of Radiance
- Pools of Darkness

Obviously poor games:
- Eye of the Beholder III
- Lands of Lore: Guardians of Destiny
- Lands of Lore III
- The Bard's Tale III (needs a UOP to be playable)

All the Japanese games to make it CRPGs only.

You can probably safely delete the following for being rather obscure/poor:
- Bloodwych
- DarkSpyre
- Dungeon Hack
- Hexx: Heresy of the Wizard
- Stonekeep
- The Summoning
- World of Aden: Thunderscape
 

deama

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You could try one of those online polls, and then after the results, edit original post to include those results for future reference.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
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Poll is back. Those who have already voted must vote again.

I removed the "Avoid at all costs" option for one simple reason: people don't know how to use it, and everything that they didn't like goes dumped straight into the "avoid" option, skewing the results. What I did keep was the "Must play" option, since people are more honest about the games they liked over the games they didn't like.

I also removed the console exclusive games. They are so few and "exclusive" as console games that it would be pretty hard to get a proper appreciation for them.

Exactly one week from this moment I will close it.
 

Rakshar

Educated
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34
I suggest deleting these games:

For not being dungeon crawlers:
- Baldur's Gate
- Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
- Pool of Radiance
- Pools of Darkness

Obviously poor games:
- Eye of the Beholder III
- Lands of Lore: Guardians of Destiny
- Lands of Lore III
- The Bard's Tale III (needs a UOP to be playable)

All the Japanese games to make it CRPGs only.

You can probably safely delete the following for being rather obscure/poor:
- Bloodwych
- DarkSpyre
- Dungeon Hack
- Hexx: Heresy of the Wizard
- Stonekeep
- The Summoning
- World of Aden: Thunderscape

I thought Bloodwych was pretty amazing when it came out. I hope you are placing it into the obscure and not the poor category.
 

Sigourn

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19 voters so far... I hope it picks up greatly. So far I'm seeing a lot of "Didn't play"s, but I'm not surprised considering these type of games aren't for everyone.
 

Mightmagic

Augur
Joined
Oct 29, 2013
Messages
118
You can probably safely delete the following for being rather obscure/poor:
- Bloodwych
- DarkSpyre
- Dungeon Hack
- Hexx: Heresy of the Wizard
- Stonekeep
- The Summoning
- World of Aden: Thunderscape
I am not agree. Stonekeep is a good dungeon crawler.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
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Dungeon Lords (2005)

lol

I voted btw, but your list needs a serious rethink. Some games have no place being on it, others are missing, etc.

It's okay. If the games have no place on the list it will be decided by the voters, who will vote accordingly (or not). Games were nominated by the Codex. Some I even nominated myself because I wanted to know the actual opinion of the Codex as opposed to browsing obscure old threads with conflicting comments. Then again, and sadly, trolling is always a possibility...

There have been 33 responses so far. Out of the 14 people who voted for Dungeon Lords, one says it is a "must play", three called it "meh" and another nine don't recommend it. So time will tell. It's still a small pool of votes.
 

Deuce Traveler

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
I can't seem to vote unless I have a Google account. And screw that. Here's what I would vote if the site would actually let me:

Ultima Underworld: Must Play
Wizardry VI: Must Play
Secret of the Silver Blades: Recommended
Dark Heart of Uukrul: Must Play
The Bard's Tale: Meh
Daggerfall: Must Play
Ultima Underworld II: Must Play
Might and Magic IV: Must Play
The Magic Candle: Must Play
The Quest: Recommended
Wizardry 8: Recommended
Dungeon Hack: Meh
Temple of Elemental Evil: Recommended
Might and Magic VII: Recommended
Pools of Darkness: Must Play
Elminage Gothic: Recommended
Legend of Grimrock: Recommended
Wizardry I: Must Play
Might and Magic II: Must Play
Might and Magic III: Must Play
Diablo: Recommended
Icewind Dale: Recommended
Might and Magic: World of Xeen: Must Play
Might and Magic V: Must Play
Might and Magic VI: Must Play
Arx Fatalis: Recommend
Pool of Radiance: Must Play
Icewind Dale II: Recommend
Eye of the Beholder: Meh
Caves of Qud: Meh
Dark Souls: Recommend
Realms of Arkania: Recommend
Dungeon Master: Meh
Hexx: Meh
Legend of Grimrock: Recommend
Nahlakh: Meh

Didn't play the rest, though the Lands of Lore series, Stonekeep, Anvil of Dawn, Lords of Xulima, and World of Aden are waiting for me in my GOG library. This is an odd list... missing some games of some of your series, such as all the Gold Box games and many other Rogue-likes.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
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I can't seem to vote unless I have a Google account. And screw that. Here's what I would vote if the site would actually let me:

Ultima Underworld: Must Play
Wizardry VI: Must Play
Secret of the Silver Blades: Recommended
Dark Heart of Uukrul: Must Play
The Bard's Tale: Meh
Daggerfall: Must Play
Ultima Underworld II: Must Play
Might and Magic IV: Must Play
The Magic Candle: Must Play
The Quest: Recommended
Wizardry 8: Recommended
Dungeon Hack: Meh
Temple of Elemental Evil: Recommended
Might and Magic VII: Recommended
Pools of Darkness: Must Play
Elminage Gothic: Recommended
Legend of Grimrock: Recommended
Wizardry I: Must Play
Might and Magic II: Must Play
Might and Magic III: Must Play
Diablo: Recommended
Icewind Dale: Recommended
Might and Magic: World of Xeen: Must Play
Might and Magic V: Must Play
Might and Magic VI: Must Play
Arx Fatalis: Recommend
Pool of Radiance: Must Play
Icewind Dale II: Recommend
Eye of the Beholder: Meh
Caves of Qud: Meh
Dark Souls: Recommend
Realms of Arkania: Recommend
Dungeon Master: Meh
Hexx: Meh
Legend of Grimrock: Recommend
Nahlakh: Meh

Duly noted. The reason it requests a Google Account is because it is the only way for the poll to prevent multiple votes. I reckon you must have no life in order to vote multiple times, but I wouldn't put it past any Codexer.

This is an odd list... missing some games of some of your series, such as all the Gold Box games and many other Rogue-likes.

Codexers are the ones who must nominate the games. This way we prevent the poll from getting bloated with bad games. I did nominate some myself just to know the Codex's opinion on them, though, like EotB I and III, Dungeon Rats, and I can't recall if anything else.
 

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