Codex Preview RPG Codex Preview: No Truce With The Furies

[Kasparov]

Prime Junta -- Yet here we return to the one big difference between PnP and cRPG which I mentioned earlier - the ability to load game, and failiure as sth leading to alternate options vs failure as a source of frustration. I hope they keep this in mind when designing the failure outcomes.

I dare you to say "FURRIES" again. I DARE YOU!

I never did say it.

Oh, sorry - I mistakenly referred to the wrong broken record.

If you have already acknowledged this same consideration, then ok.

Yeah, it´s been said for a few times. I´d love to link you to something that´s more constructive, but I can´t find anything so I opted for the Asshole Cop role instead

 

[AwesomeButton]

Yeah, it´s been said for a few times. I´d love to link you to something that´s more constructive, but I can´t find anything so I opted for the Asshole Cop role instead

Oh, well, it's the internet, so who cares.

Anyway, I guess implementing a combat system (within the isometric environment) is out of the question, so do your best to make it clear to players, or you'll get crushed by bad reviews, refunds etc.

 

[Kasparov]

Kasparov, you should try to emulate these Triple-A games when they implement mini-games with fights, e.g., "God of War". I know you don’t have the resources, but you can implement a few animations and present the options to press some buttons to punch, etc. You will need more animations and a new mechanics, but the combat will feel less passive.

That would really look out of place in No Truce. Right now our goal is to squeeze as much out of the things we have planned as possible and make the experience seamless, rock solid.

As I said a few posts above this one - the characters and their actions are animated when the situation calls for it. We design such encounters and areas, where they take place in, in such a way that it feels natural and takes into account the player´s character, their equipment/items and past choices. This way we can also surprise the player - unlike the new Shadowrun games, for example, where you can see from the convenient boxes and metal containers strewn about the map that - yeah, this is where we´re going to have a showdown later.

 

[Prime Junta]

implementing a combat system (within the isometric environment) is out of the question

If you can find 'em a couple more million bucks and give 'em another year, I'm sure they can do it. It'd be rad.

Failing that, I'd rather have no tactical combat system at all than a really shitty one implemented in a hurry as a side dish (cf. T:ToN).

 

[Sratopotator]

Lurker King, much better fit for text based combat, would be something like in Neo Scavenger.

Even when minimalistic (just a few icons, small text window, maybe a portrait or smthn), would be a good fit for a CYOA cRPG. No animations or anything like that, maybe some sounds.

I've got a question for Kasparov, does combat-like scenarios in your game have more than 1 "round"? I mean, more than 1 input/output cycle?
Or is it always just ONE roll?

 

[Kasparov]

Even when minimalistic (just a few icons, small text window, maybe a portrait or smthn), would be a good fit for a CYOA cRPG. No animations or anything like that, maybe some sounds.

I've got a question for Kasparov, does combat-like scenarios in your game have more than 1 "round"? I mean, more than 1 input/output cycle?
Or is it always just ONE roll?

First I´d like to address that Neo Scavenger bit - in No Truce that would be like a widget (even if it were a full screen widget) and that´s not good enough compared to the level of detail and complexity we put into other aspects of the game.

Whenever we´re actually going to tackle tactical combat (after No Truce With the Furies has shipped) - we want it to be better than the cookie-cutter cRPG experience. This takes into account the visual bits like encounter/map design and animations; then there´s the technical side from coding to mechanics design, which should be interesting and engaging and have depth and meaning unlike most cRPGs where they´re plain time sinks comprised of repetitive actions. We can talk all about it at one point and debate the merits of different existing systems, but that time is not now.

As for your question - what do you mean by "one roll"?

 

[Lurker King]

Lurker King, much better fit for text based combat, would be something like in Neo Scavenger.

The problem is that you have to develop the whole game around this. I'm trying to suggest something to make it fit in the gameplay screenshots they provide us, not something that is entirely different.

 

[ArchAngel]

Even when minimalistic (just a few icons, small text window, maybe a portrait or smthn), would be a good fit for a CYOA cRPG. No animations or anything like that, maybe some sounds.

I've got a question for Kasparov, does combat-like scenarios in your game have more than 1 "round"? I mean, more than 1 input/output cycle?
Or is it always just ONE roll?

-SNIP-

As for your question - what do you mean by "one roll"?

He means when you get into combat through dialogue, it is one attack roll to rule them all that decides the winner or is there a HP system, some status effect system or something that you need to beat/get to 0/overcome through multiple decisions and multiple rolls before one side is declared a winner of that combat.

 

[Sratopotator]

Lurker King Hey, you're the one that started to fantasize, i just joined.
Besides, do you think that changing "hit him" dialogue - to fist icon, is really that massive amount of work? It may not fit this specific game, but all it really needs is some work on the UI to fit a small interactive window/widget, and the work on the widget itself.

Kasparov
I may have missed it if you already covered it. By 1 roll i mean 1 input/output cycle - 1 action. Is the combat situation resolved after this 1 successful action, or is it is more complex?

 

[Kasparov]

Lurker King Hey, you're the one that started to fantasize, i just joined.
Besides, do you think that changing "hit him" dialogue - to fist icon, is really that massive amount of work? It may not fit this specific game, but all it really needs is some work on the UI to fit a small interactive window/widget, and the work on the widget itself.

Kasparov
I may have missed it if you already covered it. By 1 roll i mean 1 input/output cycle - 1 action. Is the combat situation resolved after this 1 successful action, or is it is more complex?

Haha - those teeny tiny changes are months of work, if you really want them to be good - anything less is a waste of resources on our side and a disappointment on yours.

As for those rolls, the short answer is that "no, they are not just one roll"

My phone's about to die, so no long answer tonight

 

[Zombra]

I definitely don't want to see

Cop hits Barfly for 3 points damage
A)ttack, D)efend, I)tem
Cop hits Barfly for 4 point damage
Barfly hits Cop for 6 points damage
A)ttack, D)efend, I)tem
Cop misses Barfly!
Barfly injects Healing Stim and heals 5 hit points
A)ttack, D)efend, I)tem

 

[Kasparov]

I definitely don't want to see

Cop hits Barfly for 3 points damage
A)ttack, D)efend, I)tem
Cop hits Barfly for 4 point damage
Barfly hits Cop for 6 points damage
A)ttack, D)efend, I)tem
Cop misses Barfly!
Barfly injects Healing Stim and heals 5 hit points
A)ttack, D)efend, I)tem

Dude, wtf :D

And a no less brief reply to Stratopotator:
The encounters will be more complex than a single roll. In this sense think of action scenes on novels - usually they are not a single sentence. There is buildup beforehand and the culmination should leave you breathless, spent.

Read what Robert has to say about this below:

 

[Marat Sar]

No point in dancing about architecture here. We'll have a gameplay demo showing story combat -- some time in spring or early summer. How good it is depends entirely on the quality of writing, animation, sfx and QA. (In that order). The writing is there and we have a very talented psychological animator. For whom we had to search far and wide -- an entire year actually. It's not the idea, the idea holds, I have no worries there. It's in the execution. To make execution even a remote possibility, the number of these sequences is small.

You'll understand when you see it. My dream for story combat (yes, that's what I'm stubbornly calling it) is something more complicated and tactical than choose-your-own-adventure stuff a la the PoE slide shows, or -- phah! -- QTE combat. You have to make minute choices that matter, rolls become harder if you make the wrong tactical choice, passive skills jive in to direct your attention to possible advantages -- or just to add nice flavour and action descriptions. That then present hidden possibilities... But it all retains a narrative flow, rather than a turn based one. We're trying to captures the tabletop experience of time slowing down to a crawl as players try to think of every possible excuse not to fall to death after that failed acrobatics check. Or drinking in the scenery, frozen mid air while jumping from the roof of one high speed vehicle to another. After a wild successful check. Then suddenly the other vehicle speeds up and you're in trouble...

Personally, the opportunities I see in story combat are almost endless. We've developed little storytelling structures for branched dialogues -- like "the swirl", and the "whirlpool" to accommodate these scenes of the fight. They're like hubs you return to to see a red check has become more difficult, because you waited. It allows us to scream, yell, plead in the middle of the fight, seamlessly. Think of one hub as one turn.

The only problem is -- these are by far the most challenging (read: time consuming) scenes to write. It takes a writer about two months to write and edit one. And the QA involved is also wild. Production value (and cost) spikes suddenly. Matter of fact -- it's way more expensive than having a half ass tactical system in there. Even a pretty decent one.

All and all, to give you something concrete: it employs stopping time. There are multiple checks in a larger sequences. Depending on your build about 4 passive checks may give you extra options, and 2 or 3 active checks are the major decision moments. It's well worth experimenting with too. Combat has *always* been a problem for RPG-s. Only two have really nailed tactical combat for me (ToEE and BG2). Surely the genre must seek a way forward other than resolving to twitch gameplay -- that's far removed from the story and has no emotional impact.

At the moment we're thinking: dramatic story event with strong tactical gameplay elements. But in the future, if the audience allows us the funds, I would like to make it: tactical gameplay events with story elements. Imagine super turn based, where every turn is written out and animated by hand. The system we have in No Truce is a prototype for that.

PS I didn't quit my job as a designer to be a butthurt developer commenting on rpg codex. One week's mandatory bed rest, doctor's orders.

PPS I haven't played TToN and can't comment on it.

 

[Xzylvador]

Thanks, Infini, for fixing the link! Here´s also a pic you can zoom into a bit more:

So, the artwork is done with paint-by-numbers?
Wouldn't it have been easier to just give a 7 year old some crayons?

Also, preview: tl;dr.
Just have Darth Roxor tell me whether it's good or not with a single catchphrase title.

 

[Sratopotator]

Thanks for such marvelous reply. Getting serious hype overdose here, i will get the shakes tomorrow.

The reason i mentioned Neo Scav, is because half of its combat was falling down and stumbling around. The way feedback is provided, with 'to the point' sentences, could really work in a text based game where all the lines are 'hand written'. I'm not talking about health points or anything like that - just dialogue action sequences. But never mind.

And i'm asking about such banal shit, cause isometric crpgs tend to give LEAST complex options for in-dialogue "combat". Diplomacy may give you a multiple-choice novel to read, but more physical approach is usually very simplistic. Good to know that it isn't the case with the Furies!
[And Kasparov, my point about not that MUCH work, was only directed at Lurker Kings opinion that you have to make a whole new game for this to work. I know that your work is not that easy. Respect, kisses and stuff!]

 

[Kasparov]

Thanks for such marvelous reply. Getting serious hype overdose here, i will get the shakes tomorrow.

The reason i mentioned Neo Scav, is because half of its combat was falling down and stumbling around. The way feedback is provided, with 'to the point' sentences, could really work in a text based game where all the lines are 'hand written'. I'm not talking about health points or anything like that - just dialogue action sequences. But never mind.

And i'm asking about such banal shit, cause isometric crpgs tend to give LEAST complex options for in-dialogue "combat". Diplomacy may give you a multiple-choice novel to read, but more physical approach is usually very simplistic. Good to know that it isn't the case with the Furies!
[And Kasparov, my point about not that MUCH work, was only directed at Lurker Kings opinion that you have to make a whole new game for this to work. I know that your work is not that easy. Respect, kisses and stuff!]

Hehe, no hard feelings - it's the Internet, after all. And thanks!

But in this Lurker King is right, I'm afraid. Tactical combat takes a good chunk out of the gameplay pie - look at X-COM!

Imagine if between missions you walked around and had to recruit people to your squad, barter for ammo and other gear, meanwhile explain your stance on topics like feminism and debate eugenics with homeless people.

X-COM 2 would have shipped in the next decade.

 

[Sratopotator]

I wasn't really talking about tactical combat. Just a way to represent dialogue options, in other - more game-y way.
Much less mechanically(tactically) complex than Neo Scav system. And without numbers, just text feedback.
Now i know that your "combat" scenarios are too complex to present them in such a way, at that point i though that aggressive conflict resolution in Furies dialogue is more simplistic than the non-aggressive way. (like in every other isometric rpg, sigh...)

 

[Fenix]

Spoiler

Uh-oh... we have a :russia:. And you even sounded reasonable in other threads.

Whoa, what a low blow.
You got me, partner. Hold me closer, Awesome Button, it's getting dark.

They have their own pop stars you ignorant vatnik

Who are - they? What this women have in common with real Afghans? Does she even leave there? What real Afghans think about her? And I don't mean those who live in Kabul.
But you possibly joked.

They are fascist because the strength of the country is their paramount interest, and it must be achieved at any cost through total unity, as nicely symbolised by the fasces.

Yeah, good old fascist China, who would have thought.
Jokes aside, I have no doubts that the best minds of USA and UK surely worked hard to invent such explanation in which USSR and Germany have similiar traits, while USA would not have any similarities with Germany in the light of this explanation. And they had all these years from 1945 till 91 for that.
Quite revealing the difference in attitude to the Nazis in Russia and the United States.
Fight with US propaganda, which is spoon fed to every American from childhood is as useless as peeing on a rain, because real difference between US and other countries lies within ability to manipulate, shape and forge society as people in power want it, not that all declarative bullshit about democracy, rights etc.

So I'm not going to argue with all Cold War's propaganda myths, only want to say your description of fascism have literally nothing with it, I can only repeat myself "fascism formulates as superiority of one group of people that share some trait over another or all other, no matter which trait it is - sex, race, sexual orientation, wealth, historical roots or something".

I am not sure what you mean by 'internationalist'

By this I mean the motto and the rule under which the construction of communism in the USSR was carried out. Different nations were deliberately denationalized to ensure joint peaceful coexistence, and have succeeded in the case of Russian, who were completely denationalized at the end of USSR, while all other quite the contrary had nationalistic nationalist upsurge.
So, long story short, statement that Sovien society was of Nazis kind have same credibility as "the fish needs an umbrella".
I do not take into account wild definition of fascism, constructed in US political history.

Fascism and Soviet Communism coexist perfectly in Alexander Kharchikov, a singer.

I don't know what coexist in him, I don't even know who is he, but using another internet-freak as proof is cheap.
Also I'm respect Stalin, but have no doubts that any reasons I have will be buried under mountains of bullshit that were gathered through lifetime.

This state was fixated on social transformation, such as changing the family and the role of women, whereas afterwards the state was apathetic about it.

Another loadout of bullshit. Experimentation with social structure of new society had its place during 1920-ies while there was heavy intra-party factional struggle.
Results were houses-commune, try to cancel a family and to raise and educate children outside of real family (which is actively implementing now in Europe lol, and was implemented by Nazi during WW2), and complete sexual freedom with open homosexusals, so called "swedish families" and even pedophiles.
So called theory about "glass of water" (that to satisfy sexusl desire must as easy asdrink glass of water) this theory has received the widest circulation.
Trotski was the ideologist behind many if not most of thise experiments.
And even if such experiments were abandoned, women in Soviet society was much more emansipated than West could dream about it for decades after that.

Regarding western definitions of fascism, Stalin and Hitler can be buddies on the authoritarian basis.

Ah, that. I have no doubts it that.

Meanwhile USA invested billions of dollars in Hitler’s Germany; Poland, Great Britain and France signed non-aggression treaties with Hitler before Stalin did; even aftermath Nazis of all ranks run away and hid from Stalin under western protectorate. These and other facts do not make western world and Hitler as buddies. Western definition of fascism designed to cover that western world shares the same fascist values as Hitler. It were the leaders of Poland, Great Britain and France all shook hands with Hitler, not Stalin.

Only specialists know about such things in liberal education system.
In fact, whole Europe fell under influence of UK-born Nazism, but that story is shamefully buried in the past.

"The French, millions of whom fled from the Germans terrified them, was surprised to note how disciplined and at the same time courteous German soldiers were in a foreign country. The bulk of the French felt relieved that the victory of Germany so quickly ended the war and saved France from the heavy losses and casualties, such that it suffered during the first world war. It is characteristic that emerged in those times the offensive word "Bosch" is now no longer used, but rather, in many cases, been replaced by appeal "Monsieur German soldier". ...There were, of course, and plan to provide ...the creation of "greater Burgundy" with Nancy and Belfort and transfer to Germany mining pool in the area Brieuc. All this was a bad omen for a free United Europe, which Hitler intended to create and for which he, in his words, were fighting. ...That way in the very bud was undermined the agreement with the French, which, as later claimed by the French themselves, at a moderate politics had ample opportunities.
Tippelskirch K., Geschichte des Zweiten Weltkrieges. — Bonn, 1954"[/QUOTE]

In general, I feel that rumors about Codexer's "free thinking" was somewhat exagerrated.
Maybe from Codex's point of it seems like that, like bullfrog possible seeing its pond as sea, and itself as submarine, but all that this "free thinking" was able to do is to call someone who asking representative of different culture about his culture to call him fascist.
It is a severe case of self-censorship, when you even don't allowed to think free, so you censor your own thoughts.

PS edited for sake of errors correction, sorry, was too tired.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Lol, praising the advantages that enlightened despotism has brought to a nation in irreversible demographic and economic decline was a very smart point. Go back to watching RT.

 

[Drax]

In general, I feel that rumors about Codexers "free thinking" was somewhat exagerrated.
Maybe from point of view inside Codex it seems like that, like bullfrom possible see its pond as sea, and itself as submarine, but all that "free thinking" was enough is to call someone who asking representative of different culture about his culture.
It is a severe case of self-censorship, when you even don't allowed to think free, so you censor your own thoughts.

I do not understand what you are trying to say. Please rephrase.

 

[Sratopotator]

 

[hello friend]

In general, I feel that rumors about Codexers "free thinking" was somewhat exagerrated.
Maybe from point of view inside Codex it seems like that, like bullfrom possible see its pond as sea, and itself as submarine, but all that "free thinking" was enough is to call someone who asking representative of different culture about his culture.
It is a severe case of self-censorship, when you even don't allowed to think free, so you censor your own thoughts.

:DRumours? Where have you come across these... rumours?

Herd mentality is alive and well on Codex of course, even when I'm mostly in agreement I'm a little baffled seeing how quickly the slogan-of-the-week spreads or how quickly people settle into entrenched 'sides' in discussions of recent events - impromptu mobs banding together to shut down valid discussion of the details because their liberal radar has a hair trigger and has a tendency to spit out false positives. All those times a person gets dogpiled not on the basis of anything they've said but some perception of said person not belonging to the group of tr00 believers - erroneously, too, sometimes.

Like with this red pill stuff, where someone reads a pastebin one day and it changes the whole way they view the world. It would never occur to them that the matters described therein could ever be taking place - such thoughts were totally alien until they were conveniently presented in a neat infodump.

But it doesn't really matter. Bottom line is, people get wise to what's up, and that's a good thing either way.

Still, I'd say a random sample of Codexers, on average, have better discernment than the general population.

 

[Lurker King]

So Kasparov, I'm still intrigued by the presence (or the lack thereof) of challenge in your game. Could you elaborate this part a bit more?

 

[Fenix]

I do not understand what you are trying to say. Please rephrase.

Did the best I could. Edited.

:DRumours? Where have you come across these... rumours?

It's just a figure of speech. But it somehow was implied in itself for me.

Still, I'd say a random sample of Codexers, on average, have better discernment than the general population.

Agree, I just said "somewhat exagerreated".

 

[Morality Games]

Maybe from Codex's point of it seems like that, like bullfrog possible seeing its pond as sea, and itself as submarine, but all that this "free thinking" was able to do is to call someone who asking representative of different culture about his culture to call him fascist.
It is a severe case of self-censorship, when you even don't allowed to think free, so you censor your own thoughts.

PS edited for sake of errors correction, sorry, was too tired.

Freethinking is a strain in Codex history but 2016 was a bad year for it.

The lack of major RPG releases transformed us pretty much into an alt-right political forum in basically every thread every day. Most of the posters with dissenting viewpoints got shut down and went away, so whatever claim we had to "salt of the earth" working folks diversity vs. academia's politically correct diversity went up in smoke.

I guess we're nationally representative for whatever that's worth.