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Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Battle Brothers

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
How critical do you think Battle Brothers' narrative hook and presentation are to enjoying it? I mean, the basic fantasy of managing a mercenary band in a gritty medieval world with art like this:

hiring.jpg


If that image doesn't immediately make you go FUCK YEAH, does that mean the game will probably be that much less engaging for you?
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
For me personally íts the premise of the game that made me go FUCK YEAH since I first read about it. The concept of a mercenary band that you hire people etc etc.

The presentation is actually a nice bonus, maybe the thing that makes the game go to a higher level. Because everything is polished visually and acoustically...that helps a lot. Even the sounds when you kill/hit something are some of the most satisfying sounds of their kind ever.
 

Blaine

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
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Infinitron
Lurker King
Alienman
thesheeep

Describe for me any context in which the Codex is demonstrably and materially relevant, save unto itself—a brand of "relevancy" possessed by even the most obscure brony forum specializing in equestrian gay scat fan fiction—and I'll log out, never to log in again. Just a couple of many examples: There are twelfth-tier anime-centric Steam groups and curators with more members/followers than the Codex, and the display stand of free local real estate fliers mostly hidden behind a plastic plant in the foyer of the Shoney's in Branson, Missouri has more readers than the Codex review reel.

You have to be convincing. Frankly, the possibility that you people may not realize we're a bunch of dipshits who don't matter is slightly worrying.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
f4475c841e.png


Infinitron
Lurker King
Alienman
thesheeep

Describe for me any context in which the Codex is demonstrably and materially relevant, save unto itself—a brand of "relevancy" possessed by even the most obscure brony forum specializing in equestrian gay scat fan fiction—and I'll log out, never to log in again. Just a couple of many examples: There are twelfth-tier anime-centric Steam groups and curators with more members/followers than the Codex, and the display stand of free local real estate fliers mostly hidden behind a plastic plant in the foyer of the Shoney's in Branson, Missouri has more readers than the Codex review reel.

You have to be convincing. Frankly, the possibility that you people may not realize we're a bunch of dipshits who don't matter is slightly worrying.

How about this: I've been told, by somebody in the position to know, that Roxor's PoE review was widely read and acknowledged at Obsidian and elsewhere.

You don't have to leave.
 

RK47

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How critical do you think Battle Brothers' narrative hook and presentation are in enjoying it? I mean, the basic fantasy of managing a mercenary band in a gritty fantasy world with art like this:

hiring.jpg


If that image doesn't immediately make you go FUCK YEAH, does that mean the game will probably be that much less engaging for you?

A man selling potato to a trio of armed men.
They have no legs.
Yeah, that's Battle Brothers alright.
 

Cadmus

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Roxor is right as usual and as usual you need to decide whether your preferences match with his. In my case, the combat and challenge still overshadow the obvious problem that there is literally nothing to do in the game other than fight so that you can fight even more.
 

Dayyālu

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Hey, I'm in the list of the dead! Funnily enough, killed by the only enemy type that I failed to break for a while (Orcs).

Can't add anything of value, sadly. BB is a great game for 30-40 hours, but the lack of overall content and level design is striking.. Roxor particularly hit the nail with the problem of being an X-com like without the basics of X-com (base development, research, taking losses being affordable). The strategic layer needs to be completely redesigned and even the recruitment system worked upon.

Level design could be helped by a greater variety of terrain though: it's noticeable how even forests and swamps give you the much-needed variety , but it's not enough.

It's a great game for 10 bucks, though, and I seriously hope the devs will take the criticism and build up with expansions something with more staying power (even if they keep repeating they are burned out or something).

Good work Darth Roxor , strict but fair.

EDIT:

The combat is pretty dam good, helped by a great sound made by third party company, the world map while is mostly scripted, its random and it provides a lot of challenges and diversity and playing on Ironman changes the game, just like it made Xcom NU playable.

GJ Staff! You pick the most retardo reviewers, are you competing with Kotaku and IGNz?

It's not a edgy review by itself. It points out that the game has some very good points, but if compared to truly well-designed TB games it has also heavy flaws. I like BB and bought it, and I dig the visuals a lot, but as a fan of TB skirmish games one has to see through and admit it's "good for what it is", not the second coming of X-com.

Sadly :negative:
 

Alienman

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
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Infinitron
Lurker King
Alienman
thesheeep

Describe for me any context in which the Codex is demonstrably and materially relevant, save unto itself—a brand of "relevancy" possessed by even the most obscure brony forum specializing in equestrian gay scat fan fiction—and I'll log out, never to log in again. Just a couple of many examples: There are twelfth-tier anime-centric Steam groups and curators with more members/followers than the Codex, and the display stand of free local real estate fliers mostly hidden behind a plastic plant in the foyer of the Shoney's in Branson, Missouri has more readers than the Codex review reel.

You have to be convincing. Frankly, the possibility that you people may not realize we're a bunch of dipshits who don't matter is slightly worrying.

Every time something from the Codex is posted on say for an example reddit, they always say that the people here are cancer and so on :))), but that we actually do know stuff about games/RPGs.
 

Haba

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Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
How about this: I've been told, by somebody in the position to know, that Roxor's PoE review was widely read and acknowledged at Obsidian and elsewhere.

I just had an executive lunch with several key players in the old skool RPG business, and a person of great renown made a specific comment about the RPG Codex "reviews":

Codex reviews? Nobody reads them, they are shit. And fuck that asshole that posts them

Let us discuss further what great editorial practice is to have the reviewer explicitly state their intention to "de-cult" the piece they are supposed to review. r00fles!
 

Cadmus

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I had a really bad seed it seems so my playthrough was going real shitty, everything overpriced everywhere, shit recruits, shit quests.
Started anew and hola, it's going much smoother.
The heavy punishment for loss and the small incremental rewards for victory really reek of Darkest Dungeon to me.
 
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Lurker King

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Describe for me any context in which the Codex is demonstrably and materially relevant.

Dude stumble across “Battle Brothers” on steam -> Google “Battle Brothers’ review” and find an obscure site’s review -> Since the review is gigantic and the tone is negative, dude decides that the game is not worth his money -> One less potential buyer.
 

Kuattro

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the obvious problem that there is literally nothing to do in the game other than fight so that you can fight even more.

I've been too busy murdering orcs lately to truly read this, but I come to the last posts out of curiosity from time to time and see this.

Isn't that what mercenaries do, or has their job changed in the last months? Mercenaries fight.

They go where there's war, they hire their services to the highest payer/more probable winner (usually the former first and the latter further down the war, unless it happens to be the same side from the beginning), and they fight. And when they finish a fight, they get ready for the next one. And then they fight. And again.

And when the fighting stops and peace comes to the land, they pack their bags and move to the next kingdom/country/whatever, where the next war, and the next payday, is waiting for them. Because peace, to a mercenary, is a curse. Do you know why? Because they fight. That's their business, fighting.

Battle Brothers is not about a merchant caravan. Is not about a group of friends or allies fighting a greater evil (though there's coin to be made there). It's about misfits and outcasts banding together to do the only thing they're good at, fighting (and dying if it comes to that), and profiting from it. Professionals of the arms. Mercenaries, in a word.

And mercenaries fight.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
My opinion on the game has shifted somewhat since that "glowing review" comment Infinitron quoted here; I wrote that in the first blush of infatuation with it.

Even so, IMO Roxor is being overly hard on the game, although I agree with some of his main criticisms. It's true that there's rather little "game" in the game; it's basically a combat system with the barest skeleton of a game around it. If you don't enjoy the combat, there isn't much else there to carry it, and even if you do, it does eventually turn into a grind.

On the other hand, that combat is really fucking good. There's a massive variety of enemies which not only have different stats and special attacks, but which also behave differently, requiring different weapons, tactics, and abilities to defeat effectively. Same thing with the gear -- a two-hander has different tactical options than a flail, axe, or spear; thrown weapons have their own uses, and so on. I also differ with him about the perks and the way they support different builds and tactics. To pick one he didn't mention: the skirmisher. Start with a beggar with reasonable base melee and ranged skill, and then on level-up pick whichever happens to award more points. Give him the Quick Hands perk. Then lob javelins, hatchets, or bolas at the enemy as they close in, switching to your main weapon when you get into melee range. These are also great at taking out tough second-row enemies that would be otherwise hard to get at, pikemen or necromancers for example. -- And note: I'm not saying this is the way to build a successful party, but it is a way, which depends on a different mix of stats and perks than the ones Roxor proclaims to be the only viable templates.

And as a matter of fact I especially liked the hidden stats for recruiting. It meant that early on I was looking for the cheapest beggars and cripples possible, giving the hopeless ones a woodcutter's axe and a bandanna and sending them raarghing at the enemy, while carefully cultivating the promising ones. Later on when I had money, I was scouring the settlements for specialists, and either whooping with joy or howling with disappointment, depending on what I got when I hired them.

Also -- I've gotten way more joy out of the game playing on Ironman/Veteran than any other setting. It's not masochism: it just requires you to git gud, figure out which contracts to accept, and know when to retreat in good order. The game loses a lot of its edge if you're not playing Ironman and can save-scum your way out of trouble when a fight goes pear-shaped for whatever reason.

But. Roxor is right in his main criticism: the game does turn into a tedious fucking grind after the initial hump. There is a lot of variety in enemies and battles play out differently on different terrain types, but that variety does eventually exhaust itself, and new battles will start feeling pretty much like previous battles you've won, except with enemies that get progressively tougher as you level up. There is only a limited range of mission types to take, and eventually you'll run out of new ones. It'll start to feel like a chore, not fun anymore.

However, Roxor is mistaken if he blames this on lack of variety or flaws in the core of the game -- the combat system, enemy variety, gear variety, or map variety. The problem is that the game is too long and progress is too slow after the early game, and, as stated, there's not enough there in terms of objectives and strategic gameplay to keep things moving.

Given that they're a very small team and probably don't have the resources to make a deep, broad, fleshed-out strategic game on top of what they have, if I was them I'd just speed up the mid to late-game progression with faster XP and equipment gains. The game would be shorter but ultimately more fun.

All in all I did enjoy BB a lot -- I got way more fun hours out of it than Roxor did, mostly I think because I played in Ironman mode -- but it did wear thin over time. It's a hugely impressive first effort, especially considering the team size, and I hope they'll build on the excellent core they have here to make the game the core deserves.
 
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VentilatorOfDoom

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Dude stumble across “Battle Brothers” on steam -> Google “Battle Brothers’ review” and find an obscure site’s review -> Since the review is gigantic and the tone is negative, dude decides that the game is not worth his money -> One less potential buyer.
So what?
The Codex is a platform for nerds to vent their opinion, not an advertising tool to attract customers for developers.
 

Haba

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The Codex is a platform for nerds to vent their opinion, not an advertising tool to attract customers for developers.

So why do you call them reviews them? "Contrarian Edgelord Whines About Things" sounds like a more accurate description to me.

That can have its own value in the sense of critique and improvement of the industry as a whole, but on individual level this is what should matter:

01LZ3pq.jpg


It should matter that the same applies to a large portion of the like-minded codex hivemind that has actually played it. It should matter that even a cunt like me who hardly enjoys anything at all found the game to be a shit ton of fun.

It is absolutely batshit insane to force out a review with the intent of de-culting it. Like it is a fucking cardinal sin to actually enjoy something!

I mean look at the fucking review, complaining about the lack of BUILDINGS while in the same context name-dropping X-Com and Xenonauts. From a guy who had major issues understanding the LOS mechanics in the game.

A large, a huge part of all games like this is working with and against the environment. Setting up ambushes, moving carefully around corners, navigating through rooftops, tearing down walls that stand in your way, all of that is incredibly important to add a layer of emergent gameplay and replayability that is vital for everything.

Out of diligence, I decided to finish at least one full playthrough before writing this review, where “playthrough” I defined as stopping the late game crisis. After the aforementioned first 20 hours, I just kept asking myself “why am I playing this instead of Xenonauts/JA2/X-COM mods/etc” all the time.

Guy buys a tractor when he wanted a bicycle, decides to suffer through the experience just so that he can complain about the lack of cycling features.
 

Kuattro

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That being said, I don't really understand the butthurt.

I mean who am I, a nobody newfag so I might be wrong, but I have the impression that Darth Roxor has the reputation of shitting hard on anything he dislikes even a bit, so that's what he did. A man has to maintain his streetcodex cred.

I know that I wouldn't choose him to write a review for my site (if I had one, I mean), because I agree with most people who suspect that he didn't fully understand the game mechanics (I could swear he was one of the people defending the usefulness of the berserker perk for crossbowmen, maybe I misremember) but that is the beauty of the codex isn't it? Anyone can step up and write his own review (in fact I was tempted from the moment he let it be known that he was going to shit all over BB to write one myself, but I'm a bit of a fanboy of the game and now it would just feel petty TBQH), nobody chooses you.

Yes, a lot of people will look at it and think that's the official RPGCodex opinion instead of the opinion of the only bloke who could be arsed to write a review in the first place. People do not pay attention anymore, what are you going to do?

Go and write your own. Shit all over Darth Roxor's and show him. And get BB some more sales with your stellar review of the game to end all games.
 

Sizzle

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Describe for me any context in which the Codex is demonstrably and materially relevant.

Dude stumble across “Battle Brothers” on steam -> Google “Battle Brothers’ review” and find an obscure site’s review -> Since the review is gigantic and the tone is negative, dude decides that the game is not worth his money -> One less potential buyer.

In Lurker King's lovely make-believe world, this is how game sales are lost and won:

:inner thought process of a potential BB buyer: As someone who enjoys old-school turn-based games such as X-Com, I wonder if any such games have been released recently. To Steam! Well, this Battle Brothers game looks right up my alley. And the Steam reviews are very positive. Still, better to google some more reviews. One can never have enough reviews. My, this RPGCodex site seems catered to my old-school tastes. It has RPG right in the title. Hmm, yes, their review is long, quite long. Never a good sign. Thank you, gigantic review I haven't read but somehow still figured out the tone is negative, I shan't be buying this game after all. I'm certain this review I skimmed over will ultimately result in thousands, nay, surely even more, of such lost sales, and be instrumental in BB's eventual financial and critical downfall.
 

Doctor Sbaitso

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Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands
You can't ever communicate that you are going to shit on a game and then expect to be taken seriously. The codex doesn't put out editorial reviews. They are posts on an armpit forum dripping in racism and millennial edgelord circlejerks.
 

Darth Roxor

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That can have its own value in the sense of critique and improvement of the industry as a whole, but on individual level this is what should matter:

01LZ3pq.jpg

That was, I believe, posted on the first day when I started playing the game.

and then a few days later, same thread:

Clocked 22 hours on normal/veteran and I'm getting burnt out. The game feels repetitive and barebones as fuck to me.

Hmm, it all heavily reminds me of something. Now where could I have seen something similar?

It feels good to great for the first 20 or so hours

GEE, WHERE INDEED.

It is absolutely batshit insane to force out a review with the intent of de-culting it.

Yes, because that was all my intention. It couldn't have been a joke or something, nope. This is serious codex where everything is for real.

It is unpossible that my use of the word "cult" in relation to people praising something to the high-heavans is a bit of a running joke that started already with the near-cultist veneration of a game by Goral and Lurker King. The same AoD that I gave a positive review.

It also is unpossible that the "de-culting" comment might have appeared on the same day I saw some retards piling stupid and nonsensical praise on this game, like calling it a "spiritual successor to Darklands" or some other shit like that, and that it was a reply to Prima Cunta's statement about the game needing a "glowing review".

Unpossible, I say!

I mean look at the fucking review, complaining about the lack of BUILDINGS while in the same context name-dropping X-Com and Xenonauts. From a guy who had major issues understanding the LOS mechanics in the game.

And again with this shit. "The los mechanics are idiotic" = "guy had major issues understanding them". I guess Vault Dweller had major issues understanding Oblivion.

As for buildings, I would have assumed it fairly obvious I didn't expect multi-floored buildings and heavy use of Z axis that would rival Mordheim or X-Com in this game. However, if you are fighting in fortifications, if the game has cover mechanics, if the game has elevation levels, etc, then why for the love of Christ is it somehow unreasonable to expect it to even have something as basic as enemies starting behind a palisade? Or there being a few walled sections, pillars and corridors in ruins?




I swear, you fucking people.
 
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Lurker King

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So what? The Codex is a platform for nerds to vent their opinion, not an advertising tool to attract customers for developers.

I was just answering Blaine’s comment that Codex's stuff has no impact.

I don’t care if people have different opinions or despise the games I like. But it bothers me that someone can spend his time making a long-winded negative review because they have an axe to grind against its popularity inside the Codex. Making a negative review because you can’t accept that a game is popular it’s just as dishonest as making a positive reviews to please developers.

It’s bad enough that they have to establish themselves with no audience and media coverage without a retard with an agenda trying to hurt their sales. Let's no forget. We are talking about a game made by one of the few remaining talented developers that are actually trying to delivering solid character building instead of geometric shapes for retards.
 
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Lurker King

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In Lurker King's lovely make-believe world, this is how game sales are lost and won

I don’t have to anticipate every single thought process out there. Blaine said that Codex content has no effect on any potential buyers and I’m saying it has for the simple reason that it exists. My claim is weaker and easier to defend: its game related content can affect games sales just like any other game related content on the web. Saying it won’t because is obscure is nonsense because the game is obscure. Saying that it won’t because buyers already have steam reviews ignores that some players are more cautious look for more information before buying games – I know I do. We can argue about this the whole day and I will always have the edge because I’m defending a weaker claim based on common sense while you are defending that ultra-strong conclusion that nobody would be ever put off by this review.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
The los mechanics are idiotic

The LOS mechanics are fine.

Realistic, no. But then neither are disengagement attacks, armour that absorbs damage until you've hacked it to ribbons, or whirlwind attacks with a two-handed axe. These are all gamey game mechanics for you to use to beat battles. They're only shit if you're a filthy simulationist.
 

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