Review RPG Codex Review: Darth Roxor on Disappointment, thy name is Pillars of Eternity

[ZagorTeNej]

Am I supposed to apologize for liking nice graphics?

No, but PoE visually blows DAO out of the water. The attention to detail that is present almost everywhere, beautiful art direction, over painted backgrounds, mix of colours (DAO is just different shades of brown for the whole game basically), different environments, characters that don't look like mutants drenched in oil etc.

 

[jewboy]

Well PoE is a beautiful game. It's been too long since I've played DA:O to remember the graphics. I just figured that with like multiple times the budget, with virtually unlimited funds, it probably beat PoE graphically. Hard to enjoy the graphics though when I have infinite Darkspawn respawns burned into my retinas.

 

[DeepOcean]

Am I supposed to apologize for liking nice graphics?

No, but PoE visually blow DAO out of the water. The attention to detail that is present almost everywhere, beautiful art direction, over painted backgrounds, mix of colours (DAO is just different shades of brown for the whole game basically), different environments, characters that don't look like mutants drenched in oil etc.

Yep, well done 2d graphics >>>>>>>>> Bioware 3d "artistic" vision but someone can argue that DA:O has better visual spell effects with people flying all over the place and all that shit. Casting Miasma of dullness and only barely seeing some puff of smoke on enemies feet, barely distinguishable and with all that shit going on, after a certain point you have no idea of what effect is affecting who.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Yep, well done 2d graphics >>>>>>>>> Bioware 3d "artistic" vision but someone can argue that DA:O has better visual spell effects with people flying all over the place and all that shit. Casting Miasma of dullness and only barely seeing some puff of smoke on enemies feet, barely distinguishable and with all that shit going on, after a certain point you have no idea of what effect is affecting who.

I could see the argument that DAO has better spell effects, visual cues and animations but that doesn't really do much to change the overall impression.

 

[Average Manatee]

If you have to have a game with trash combat, trash combat with A-A-Awesome like enemies grappling and picking up your characters and over the top spell effects at least make for a reason to watch the screen.

 

[hiver]

DAO certainly has better gameplay. About same amounts of trash mobs but its better combat system to play than the one in PoE.
Even with all its lacking stuff and faults. As RT with pause its much better when it comes to feel of combat. More engaging and more diverse based on what companions - classes and builds you have.

PoE certainly had better looking art design, that s true. And not so superficial cliche based main plot.

 

[Roguey]

Did SawyerMan let his opinion be known on Dragon Age? He may also think it was an improvement on the Baldurs Gate series in every way. In fact that seems pretty likely since people say he hated BG2. Roguey would probably know.

He's never played it (the writing is a deal breaker; as much as he liked what ME2 did, the writing quickly killed it for him there too). I believe he should have (preferably all three), skipping dialogue.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

The writing is a deal breaker-He's never played it

How is that even possible ?

 

[VioletShadow]

DAO certainly has better gameplay. About same amounts of trash mobs but its better combat system to play than the one i PoE.
Even with all its lacking stuff and faults. As RT with pause its much better when it comes to feel of combat. More engaging and more diverse based on what companions - classes and builds you have.

PoE certianly had better looking art design, that s true. And not so superficial cliche based main plot.

Must agree. To be honest DAO combat is one of the few RTwP that I can stand.

 

[Irenaeus]

The writing is a deal breaker-He's never played it

How is that even possible ?

I can relate. ME2 writing is beyond retarded.

 

[Roguey]

How is that even possible ?

It's pretty easy to get the gist of what the writing will be like through previews and so on. Plus he's played BG2 and Knights of the Old Republic and knows for a fact that he can't stand David Gaider's writing at all.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

How is that even possible ?

It's pretty easy to get the gist of what the writing will be like through previews and so on. Plus he's played BG2 and Knights of the Old Republic and knows for a fact that he can't stand David Gaider's writing at all.

Haha so he shouldn't had played Pillars at all then,with Pulitzer level of dialog like : [worshiper of Eothas] Who's Eothas?

 

[hiver]

Nobody really expected fallout or jagged alliance, that a retarded strawman as i already explained so it has no meaning when it comes to quality of the game.

I don't know who expected what (nor do I care).

Why say what you say? Why mention it at all then? Never crossed your mind? Rlly?

For comparison. It's a squad-based turn-based post-apocalyptic RPG with dialogues (i.e. not a shoot 'em up). Two obvious questions are 'is it anything like Fallout?' and 'is it anything like JA2?'. The answer is 'no, it's not, don't buy it if you expect it to be like these games'.

The point is there is no reason to think anyone had actually expected that...

Never said anyone did.

, (and you say yourself you dont know or care right there) but you still use this to make a point that its a good game if the players dont have those bad expectations.

See above.

You made a series of inane assertions how its good based on the fact that you enjoyed it, nothing else...

What else matters?

And there we have it. Indeed, for you, nothing.

So your whole review is what i called it. And every review you ever made, apparently. Be kind and shorten the future ones to "i liked it" or "i didnt like it".

A review is nothing but 'I liked it, here is why' or 'I hated, here is why'. It would be dishonest to like a game yet rip it apart (every game has flaws) or hate a game yet give it a favorable review.

A good reviewer (and I'm not saying I am one) should explain why he liked or disliked it, so that the reader wouldn't have to take his word for it but be able to form his own opinion based on the info provided. I believe I've done that and even though it's clear that I liked the game, the review contains plenty of warnings. I explained the setting, character and combat systems in details, so that people can decide for themselves if the game is for them. Beyond that...

Every game or anything else ever made is good because someone likes it. Anything at all. That includes BG1 you know. F3, Obliblion, DO:S, any game EA ever made, Mass defect 3 ? Awesome. Throw in every example of horrible shit game as you will. All good.
Someone liked it and thats all that matters. According to that Escher case brain.

As a wise man once said: 'Odds are, something you like very much sucks. Why? Because this is RPG Codex.'

Anyway, yes, beauty (and other things) are in the eye of the beholder. What differs are the reasons given to support one's opinion.

oki doki then...


...



ffs...




oh and,

I explained the setting, character and combat systems in details

you did no such thing dont be daft.

What differs are the reasons given to support one's opinion.

You just invaluated your own opinion by reducing the "reasons" to just "i like it" previously.





must be the combination of those spells i used... yes, some sideffect.. hafta note that down for future use...

 

[jewboy]

Was Gaider really responsible for all that shitty dialogue though? Was Gaider to BG2 like what MCA was for PS:T? Even MCA didn't write all the dialogue in PS:T. I remember reading some kind of retrospective or interview about the writing in BG2, but I don't remember any details. I didn't play BG2 for the writing. Almost every cRPG ever made had shit writing, which is what I find a bit strange about Sawyer's response to that question. If he restricts himself to cRPGs with decent writing he'll pretty much be left with only PS:T and MoTB. Most of my favorite cRPGs had just awful dialogue because most cRPG writers who aren't MCA or Ziets (or perhaps Vince if he ever releases his game) just aren't any good.

In terms of my enjoyment it's amazing how much better even a poorly written story is than no story at all though. For me combat mechanics trump story unless the story is truly exceptional and even then tactical and varied combat is still necessary in an RPG. Clearly Gaider had no problem designing a game with fun and at least somewhat tactical combat despite being hobbled with a sub-optimal RtwP system. Albeit one that still used 'rounds' and could be auto-paused each round. I can't help noticing that PoE has no such option if only because there are no rounds. It is 100% real time.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Was Gaider really responsible for all that shitty dialogue though? Was Gaider to BG2 like what MCA was for PS:T? Even MCA didn't write all the dialogue in PS:T. I remember reading some kind of retrospective or interview about the writing in BG2, but I don't remember any details. I didn't play BG2 for the writing. Almost every cRPG ever made had shit writing, which is what I find a bit strange about Sawyer's response to that question. If he restricts himself to cRPGs with decent writing he'll pretty much be left with only PS:T and MoTB. Most of my favorite cRPGs had just awful dialogue because most cRPG writers who aren't MCA or Ziets (or perhaps Vince if he ever releases his game) just aren't any good.

I don't think it's just about bad writing, if he truly had so much trouble with it he wouldn't be able to play crap like Skyrim. I think there's just something about Gaider's writing that makes it cringy and unsettling to such a degree that it can be more detrimental to game experience than just your average, plain terrible writing that is standard for the game industry so I can relate somewhat (I still think he's being a delicate hipster though). That said, I had no such troubles with ME2, I thought the writing in that game was pretty good as far as action RPGs (well action game with a few RPG elements sprinkled on top of it) go and some of the characters I really liked (Mordin most of all) but I have no idea how much or if at all Gaider participated in writing for that game.

In terms of my enjoyment it's amazing how much better even a poorly written story is than no story at all though. For me combat mechanics trump story unless the story is truly exceptional and even then tactical and varied combat is still necessary in an RPG. Clearly Gaider had no problem designing a game with fun and at least somewhat tactical combat despite being hobbled with a sub-optimal RtwP system. Albeit one that still used 'rounds' and could be auto-paused each round. I can't help noticing that PoE has no such option if only because there are no rounds. It is 100% real time.

Gaider is a very good designer (he's just a really bad writer), much better than Sawyer in my book.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I explained the setting, character and combat systems in details

you did no such thing dont be daft.

If you say so.

What differs are the reasons given to support one's opinion.

You just invaluated your own opinion by reducing the "reasons" to just "i like it" previously.

When you like a game, it means that you really enjoy the strengths and the weaknesses don't really bother you that much or at all. When you don't like a game, the strengths don't impress you that much but the weaknesses bother you a lot, to the point of making the game unplayable. Of course, different games have different ratios of strengths to weaknesses. Fallout is well liked here, even though it's not a perfect game. Arcanum is less liked - the strengths are greater than those of Fallout, but the flaws are greater too, thus less people are able to enjoy it.

WL2 has a LOT of flaws and it's very easy to focus just on these flaws (just like it's very easy to do what Roxor did and focus just on the flaws; he isn't wrong but there's more to the game than what he described), but it has strengths too (which is why it got the second highest number of votes on the Codex).

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Gaider is a very good designer (he's just a really bad writer), much better than Sawyer in my book.

True.He has my respect for the popdemand mod for Victoria2

 

[hiver]

Its not "i say so". I explained all that several times so far.
And its true.

the rest what you say there is just garbage trying to confirm that something is good because you like it in so many more words, re-asserting the same laughably stupid notion.
and apparently you dont understand what ridiculous nonsense is falling out of your head.

Neither roxor or anyone else is focusing only on bad sides, thats a nonsense strawman argument. About some other review. That also doesnt make your review any different or better.
But the truth is you didint include any of the many bad things in W2 at all. As far as such one sided approach is concerned.


didnt base anything on facts but your stupid preference, like or dislike, which means that nothing is bad or garbage because that just idiotic nonsense logic.
You are reducing your thinking to that of a worst delusional biodrone, oblivion lover, or diablo 3 bot, or whatever worst example of modern gaming retardation there is.

It also invalidates you arguing against any game at all, because someone liked it.


Are you going full retard here?

 

[Country_Gravy]

I'm going full retard. It's actually not that bad this time of year.

I enjoyed this review. He disliked the game more than I did, but he made some very valid points that I agree with.

 

[Sensuki]

It turns out that Darth Roxor's review was so good that it broke the post count record on the OE forums and inspired this thread that claims it's not a review: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78620-the-truth-behind-words-in-rpg-codexs-1-review-for-poe/

 

[jewboy]

Well the review really is that good. It was so compelling and well written that I had to at least consider the idea that he might be a VD alt. The reason I know it's not VD is the review could not be summed up as good for what it is. So yeah. Clearly not VD. I'd say good enough to maybe pass for a first draft of VD writing though. Damn good.

 

[Black]

It turns out that Darth Roxor's review was so good that it broke the post count record on the OE forums and inspired this thread that claims it's not a review: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78620-the-truth-behind-words-in-rpg-codexs-1-review-for-poe/

Darth Roxor's essay about PoE cannot be considered a 'review', despite the author names it such, if only for the staggering amount of spoilers it contains.

wat
Since when sploicers decide whether something is a review or not?

 

[DemonKing]

I think the review tried a little too hard to be deliberately critical. The combat in PoE is a lot better than that in PST for example which was so awful the game would have been better without it.

I actually preferred the original BG to BG2 (lower level, more open world, "classic" D&D feel) and this game gives me the kind of feeling I got playing BG1 again, just with a few nice improvements like being able to zoom in and out, adjust movement speed etc. There a re a few miss-steps along the way (trash mob combat without reward, for instance) but overall I'm enjoying it.

 

[Hatred]

It turns out that Darth Roxor's review was so good that it broke the post count record on the OE forums and inspired this thread that claims it's not a review: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78620-the-truth-behind-words-in-rpg-codexs-1-review-for-poe/

Why does OE have a lower post count available to it than the 'dex ? Also they have had other spin off threads too, I think they may have been closed as duplicates. Tigranes may know better.

 

[circ]

Am I supposed to apologize for liking nice graphics?

No, but PoE visually blows DAO out of the water. The attention to detail that is present almost everywhere, beautiful art direction, over painted backgrounds, mix of colours (DAO is just different shades of brown for the whole game basically), different environments, characters that don't look like mutants drenched in oil etc.

Almost everywhere? You must tell me where everywhere is because I haven't seen any particular attention to detail. It looks like JA2 with painted backgrounds, but atleast JA2 had consistency. Not saying DAO looks good by any means, but neither does PoE for that matter. Also, characters that don't look like mutants? How can you tell what PoE characters look like, unless you mean the party character screen - which consist of some really bad artwork. Have you seen well done artwork?

I guess if the only games you've played are NWN, NWN2 and PoE, PoE would impress visually, but hell, Master of Magic has better artdirection.