Incline RPG Codex's Top 50 cRPGs - Results and Reviews

[Deuce Traveler]

System Shock 1

Spoiler

This is not an RPG and does not belong on this list. That being said, it is an awesome 1st person action-adventure game and should be played by all fans of that genre. The character you play in the game has no speaking role, and in fact most dialogue is found on journals and e-mail records presented in text form. After being arrested on behalf of a corporation that you had hacked into, you are brought up to an orbiting space station by a company executive and asked to do a secret project for him in exchange for your freedom and augmentations which will improve your hacking abilities. You agree to this, succeed in your task, are operated upon, and left in stasis for months while your newly augmented body healed itself from the surgery. You wake up to find the station has been taken over by mutants, the crew has been killed off or are dying, and something has gone wrong with the artificial intelligence running the structure. Oh, and a lot of this might all be your fault. Your task is to set things right again, using your wits, cyber enhancements, weapons and ammunition, and the occasional lead pipe to the face. The game has a very creepy feel to it, as you explore the damaged station; often having to navigate through narrow corridors lit by failing, flickering lights. System Shock is quite the audio experience too, as you can often hear the heavy movements of nearby mutants before you can line them up in your gun sights. Not to give anything else away, but there is also a presence on the station that taunts you as you progress. This villain is quite terrifying, but also is a constant companion. Homicidal in every way, but the only personality in which your character can have interaction with as you traverse the dangerous corridors in search for an escape from an outcome even worse than violent death.

 

[Sunsetspawn]

When can we expect the official version to make it to the frontpage? Crooked Bee? felipepepe?

Been done for over a month now, but it's over 30 pages of text, so is taking a while for the staff to spell check & edit it.

No spell checking or editing my review; my idiocy should be reflected accurately!

 

[Deuce Traveler]

But you don't understand... we are a prestigious RPG magazine now.

 

[HiddenX]

felipepepe: Champions of Krynn - like i promised:

Spoiler

Champions of Krynn is an SSI Gold Box game released in 1990. The setting and storyline is based on the popular Dragon Lance novel series "Dragon Lance Legends".

Some classes (Knight of Solamnia, Red & White Mages) and races (Kender, Qualinesti Elves, Silvanesti Elves, Hill Dwarves, Mountain Dwarves) and monsters (Draconians ...) are new, but the gameplay and features are still the same from previous AD&D Goldbox games: Tile based movement in dungeons, turn based combat with square movement on a combat map. Frequent healing and resting is often necessary to survive the tactical challenging fights.

The story and epic main quest is interesting but no match for the novel series. There's no party interaction and contrary to previous Gold Box games the game is pretty linear and short. There are only a few side quests and only minor quest choices during mid-game. NPC interaction is there, but offers no roleplaying options.

The game shines during combat; you have to learn the weaknesses of the different enemy classes to fight them with your party efficiently with various tactics. The economy is broken like in every Gold Box game, but looting is rewarding ‘til the end. Character Development is AD&D standard – you start from level one.

The game interface is easy to understand and functional; some texts have to be read from the manual.

Champions of Krynn is a good game - clearing dungeon after dungeon with fireballs and backstabbing never gets old with the Goldbox engine. Some more surprises, more non-linearity and more choices with consequences would have been nice.

 

[felipepepe]

Great, only King of Dragon Pass, ADOM and Divinity II to go now. C'mon people, I don't want to have to ask for more help from the Watch... Hidden X is a double spy, so he's tolerable.

 

[Alchemist]

I should write a Champions of Krynn review since I voted for it - but my memory is pretty hazy about the details as I played it 24 years ago. So I'd sorta be talking out of my ass. It's low-level goldbox goodness with Dragonlance flavor. Draconians were cool...

Hopefully HiddenX's review suffices.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

It's low-level goldbox goodness with Dragonlance flavor. Draconians were cool...

Only 290 words to go! Might as well finish it, just in case.

 

[circ]

This list reads like a cross between Gamefaqs and Obsidian fanboyism. And a list that also includes Dragon Age: Origins can never be taken seriously. BaK and ToEE that low? Huh?

You have 30 years of crpg's to pick from and this is the result? There is no Magic Candle here even, the fuck is wrong with you people? Goddamn RPG posers.

 

[felipepepe]

Your fault for not voting.

 

[Gozma]

Lands of Lore: Throne of Chaos is a Westwood Studios game, continuing from the Dungeon Master style real-time grid-based dungeon crawler design that they developed for SSI's AD&D licensed Eye of the Beholder 1 and 2. The presentation was highly notable in 1993 both for the mastery Westwood had for making that graphical era look good and for some early Bethesda-style nerd celebrity voice acting on the new CD media - Patrick Stewart, fresh out of Star Trek TV, played his first but not last corny fantasy videogame king in LoL. The setting is highly cartoony and forgettable fantasy with some slight Dark Crystal type moody undertones and with a straightforward uncomplicated story.

With D&D jettisoned, the character system is highly simplified, beginning by picking one of four starting characters that generally major/minor in the methods by which you kill stuff - melee, ranged, magic. After character creation and into the game proper it's learn-by-doing and new "NPC" party members coming and going as you progress the story. The gameplay is a generally pleasant mix of simple and slow/low-reflex combat and dungeon exploration based on classic tricks like buttons hidden in wall textures and pressure plate puzzles that will be very familiar from the Eye of the Beholder template. Unlike the Eye of the Beholder entries there is a powerful automapper that will even show things like secret switches you may have passed over, meaning you will never miss a secret for long and will have to abstain from using the automap heavily if you enjoy the search.

The game was clearly meant as a "broaden the appeal" simplification by Westwood, then working for a new publisher. The overall contemporary effect is a light, quick game suitable for a relaxing playthrough.

 

[DalekFlay]

And a list that also includes Dragon Age: Origins can never be taken seriously.

Dragon Age: Origins is a good test for poser cynicism. It's a great game in the middle of a decline studio in a decline era, so poser cynics are caught hating it without much reason, showing they would hate just about anything released at the same time. Meanwhile true cynics who just want their classics back are like "yeah it's alright, I dunno, RPG of the year I guess." True open-minded optimists are then like "wow this is a great game how did this happen."

How you respond to Dragon Age: Origins says a lot about you.

 

[felipepepe]

Not really a "great" game, but a solid one, and probably the best intro to the genre for modern gamers. And gameplay-wise, it's much better than some potato games...

 

[Deuce Traveler]

And a list that also includes Dragon Age: Origins can never be taken seriously.

Dragon Age: Origins is a good test for poser cynicism. It's a great game in the middle of a decline studio in a decline era, so poser cynics are caught hating it without much reason, showing they would hate just about anything released at the same time. Meanwhile true cynics who just want their classics back are like "yeah it's alright, I dunno, RPG of the year I guess." True open-minded optimists are then like "wow this is a great game how did this happen."

How you respond to Dragon Age: Origins says a lot about you.

Please. Dragon Age: Origins was shit. From the caked blood that no one ever took time to wipe off themselves or their armor before engaging in conversations, to bands of armed rogues sitting just outside a town's gates with no fear of the town guard or the populace even when you pull your forces back and they follow you into town, to the immature level of understanding of the writer in regards to sex and relationships. The combat is shit, as your warriors will allow enemy opponents to run by them in order to attack your spell slingers behind. Even SSI games 20 years older had a mechanic where you could run around melee opponents, but run the risks of attacks of opportunity. The level design was shit, such as the forest full of bands of werewolves and pissed off trees, and little else. Oh, and the violent trees were ripped off shamelessly from the Lord of the Rings movie, right down to the funky manners of speech. Even if you want to put it in a top 50 list, it had no business being in the #33 slot.

 

[Infinitron]

Attacks of opportunity are hardly a universal feature in RPGs, and a large number of RPG fans will tell you that attacks of opportunity in real time combat == autoshit (I disagree with this, but it's a common opinion)

 

[agentorange]

King of Dragon Pass is a particularly difficult game to categorize; cycling through the genres of 4x, RPG, and text adventure in each of its gameplay facets. Taking place in a low magic world of indeterminate technological advancement, with religious elements borrowing heavily from the various ancient Pagan religions, the player is tasked with establishing a clan settlement in Dragon Pass, and to lead that clan from a struggling group of nomads into a prosperous ruling power; as yours is not the only settlement in Dragon's Pass, you must contend with around twenty other clans, each with their owns morals, goals, and whims.

Instead of being the sole "commander", the player manipulates the game world through 7 advisers, referred to as the Clan Ring. There are far more than 7 candidates for the Ring, and an important part of the game is balancing the spiritual and statistical aspects of the advisers. The game is broken up into 5 seasons, something like turns, in which certain decisions are able to made; plant crops in the spring (sea), wage war in the summer (fire), reap your harvests in the fall (earth), etc. Of course those are just the suggested actions, you may want to wage war in the spring if you find out an enemy clan is unprepared for attack - but beware, because no planting means no harvest, which means no food for your people or their cattle; every action you take will have a long term consequences, and some of the consequences - especially with the random encounters - are not evident until long after you have made the choice. Random encounters can occur at any time, and this is where the game really shines; there are about 100 different events that can occur, each taking the form of a short text adventure, with beautiful hand drawn art work. From incursions of demonic monsters, encounters with enigmatic wanderers and mystics, rebellions and party throwing, each event is comprised of multiple choices for actions; sometimes the availability of a choice will depend on your actions in a previous event, possessing a certain item, or having a certain type of adviser. These events can leads to tremendous boons, or end up devastating your clan; killing a group of visitors to get their magical artifact might benefit you for a while, but chances are you will get fucked up the ass when whatever city the visitors were from sends people to seek retribution. Careful balancing of social, economic, and spiritual factors, and a good amount of foresight, are the only way to ensure your clan does not end up a devastated ruin.

 

[Lhynn]

DA:O is really overrated because of its good bits, but most of the game is p. lazy and stupid. Some encounters are good, more than a couple of the characters have their good moments, i personally loved the LotR intro where you have to climb a tower, desperately trying to warn your allies, only to die seconds after tasting an empty victory. It did a good job setting the mood.

But by the end of the game i was fucking sick and tired tired of encounters, trash fights were the norm and they all felt the fucking same and they completely override my memories of the actual good and challenging encounters the game did have.

Also the fact that it probably was the best AAA RPG from that year, that its a recent game, that it had somewhat pweety graphics, those things weights heavily in its favor. But compared to most rpgs that didnt make it to the top 50 but did to the top 100? the game is fucking banal, shit, boring.

 

[LundB]

Dragon Age: Origins is a good test for poser cynicism. It's a great game in the middle of a decline studio in a decline era, so poser cynics are caught hating it without much reason, showing they would hate just about anything released at the same time.
...
How you respond to Dragon Age: Origins says a lot about you.

'without much reason'? lol please.

There are plenty of reasons to say the game's shit. Garbage MMO recharge-combat, encounters that are 99% samey boring trash mobs, shitty level design (fucking deep roads jesus christ), generic and bland as fuck setting and general plot, painful Bioware writing, obnoxious in-game DLC salesman, I could go on.

The game had a few bright spots, but if you can't see how all that crap provides plenty of reason to hate it, well that says a lot about you.

 

[felipepepe]

Well, this is a list of the Codex's preferences, not an absolute list of Best cRPGs Ever. How many people here really played most games? I'm having a goddamn hard time collecting reviews for many of them, especially older stuff. Think about Dark Heart of Ukruul, how Bee, octavius and cRPGaddict absolutely love it, but they are about the only people in the world that played it... and only Bee and HiddenX had anything to say about Wizardry 1 and 4.

And like it or not, DA:O was among the best cRPG around a time of great decline, and although it made a lot of compromises, it's as close to BG2 as we got in almost 15 years. The era of a release greatly influences it. Geneforge 1 would be a beloved classic if it had been release either sooner or later, not in the golden Infinity Engine era. Fucking New Vegas would be a mediocre spin-off if released next to F1 and F2, graphics aside...

Point is, if you want to present a more traditional cRPG to a casual gamer of today, DA:O is the best game around, having a lot of streamlining, but also a lot of the core features of olden games. And that is reason enough for it to be on the list.

 

[LundB]

When the resource wars are over and humanity is reduced to wandering tribes led by barbarian warlords, I will take a shit on the corpse of a vanquished foe and call it a cRPG. Since everybody else will be too busy dodging the roving cannibalistic machete-rapists and eking out a miserable existence on a dying earth to worry about making a point on a long-dead forum, it will be the best cRPG released around the time. I hope you will treat it with the same consideration you treat DAO despite its 'compromises'.

(Also New Vegas IS a mediocre spin-off, I don't know how anybody could tolerate it without modding it into something resembling an actual RPG with a bit of challenge like I ended up having to.)

 

[felipepepe]

I bet that people will have more fun with that shit on the corpse you made that many here have with all the perfect classic golden-era RPGs sitting idle in their Hard-drives or GOG shelves, unplayed.

Also, why rage so much on DA:O at #33, and not at New Vegas at #8 then?

 

[Lhynn]

When the resource wars are over and humanity is reduced to wandering tribes led by barbarian warlords, I will take a shit on the corpse of a vanquished foe and call it a cRPG. Since everybody else will be too busy dodging the roving cannibalistic machete-rapists and eking out a miserable existence on a dying earth to worry about making a point on a long-dead forum, it will be the best cRPG released around the time. I hope you will treat it with the same consideration you treat DAO despite its 'compromises'.

Also New Vegas IS a mediocre spin-off, I don't know how anybody could tolerate it without modding it into something resembling an actual RPG with a bit of challenge like I ended up having to.

Fuck you. New Vegas is great, factions in that game were done superbly, as was the end game structure. Some of the dlc was very enjoyable and they did wonders even with the limitations of the engine.

Also mods mostly enchanced the game, instead of merely fixing it like most of beth crap.

felipepepe You know better than to say codexers dont play old titles because new shit has prettier graphics. Or at least you should.

 

[LundB]

I bet that people will have more fun with that shit on the corpse you made that many here have with all the perfect classic golden-era RPGs sitting idle in their Hard-drives or GOG shelves, unplayed.

It's typical of monkeys to have plenty of fun flinging poo around, so I am sure you are correct.

Also, why rage so much on DA:O at #33, and not at New Vegas at #8 then?

Hmm? My initial reaction to the list way back when was pretty much just 'Codex gonna Codex', I never expected it to mirror my (amazing and indisputable) taste.

At the moment I'm raging less because of Dragon Age's position on the list and more because someone decided to call it a 'great game' and declare any hatred directed towards it completely unjustified posturing. And then because you seem to be saying it magically turns into a better game just because it happened to be released surrounded by shit that's even worse (not even the base assumption there is really true, I mean Geneforge 5 for instance was released not even a full year before DAO). And also because it's been a good long time since I had a proper rage about anything RPG related, and I was starting to not feel like a true Codexer anymore.

 

[felipepepe]

felipepepe You know better than to say codexers dont play old titles because new shit has prettier graphics. Or at least you should.

You're placing words in my mouth, I never blamed graphics. It's a much bigger issue of:

- Knowing about older games,
- Having interest in playing it,
- Adquiring said game,
- Actually trying to play it instead of whatever you bought on Steam this week (hardest part),
- Getting pass the compatibility issues of newer hardware,
- Getting over stuff that YES, HAVE DATED A LOT, especially regarding controls, not graphics.

All that is much harder than it looks, otherwise we wouldn't have so many people here on the Codex playing shit games, with a huge backlog of old classics THAT SHOULD BE HIGHER ON THE LIST! Of course, there's a sweet spot; Skyrim is ultra-accessible, but it already degenerated into a "follow the arrow" game, not a RPG.

AGAIN, I believe that DA:O presents a sweet spot; it's shinny, cinematic and streamlined, but also have many features of more classic RPGs. If I had to introduce little Herp Derp to a cRPG, I would give him DA:O, not fucking Pool of Radiance or Ultima 4. Hell, even BG2 and Fallout, while looking GLORIOUS to me, are extremely dated for today's audience. That's why it belongs on the list.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

felipepepe You know better than to say codexers dont play old titles because new shit has prettier graphics. Or at least you should.

Hell, even BG2 and Fallout, while looking GLORIOUS to me, are extremely dated for today's audience. That's why it belongs on the list.

Good 2d art is timeless IMO and comparison to shiny 3d graphics is apples and oranges. FFS look at 3D games of the late 90s or early 2000s (exception for Wiz8 2D/3D hybrid). The only reason they didn't make people barf at the time is the previous gen was even uglier.

 

[eremita]

felipepepe You know better than to say codexers dont play old titles because new shit has prettier graphics. Or at least you should.

Hell, even BG2 and Fallout, while looking GLORIOUS to me, are extremely dated for today's audience. That's why it belongs on the list.

Good 2d art is timeless IMO and comparison to shiny 3d graphics is apples and oranges. FFS look at 3D games of the late 90s or early 2000s (exception for Wiz8 2D/3D hybrid). The only reason they didn't make people barf at the time is the previous gen was even uglier.

He just said it's not only about graphics for fuck's sake...

I also agree that DAO is good as introduction to CRPGs.