RPG of the year?

[Gimble]

Torment 2 had too many cooks. Planescape:Torment was a one-off where the primary writer was also the lead designer (and clearly a GOOD one at that). Unless those circumstances repeat, there is almost no chance to see similar writing quality replicated in another interactive game, RPG or othewise.

 

[Kem0sabe]

tl;dr

The only thing I skimmed from that is that no discussion is allowed for non-Western games. That's not true, they can be freely discussed in the trash can that is the JRPG discussion sub-forum, where they belong.

So out of the 3 "console exclusive RPGs" you've listed one is here http://store.steampowered.com/app/485510/Nioh_Complete_Edition___Complete_Edition/ (and is more of an action game) and one is just a really bad action game.

Ridiculous indeed.

I didn't know nioh was released on pc, good for them, it's a great action rpg and should be played by pc players who like the genre.

Horizon zero dawn is as much of an rpg as Witcher, it's an action rpg with character development, equipment, dialogue choices, exploration, stealth, minor crafting.

We admit games like battletech and that dialogue only rpg furries, the first is not even an rpg by the devs own words, the second doesn't even have combat and is basically an adventure game. Why not console action rpg's?

 

[aweigh]

I whole-heartedly agree that the Jap games chosen for this poll are, while being excellent games (at least Nier, AFAIK @ the rest "shrug"), no one here or anywhere owuld EVER call them Codex-worthy RPGs.

It's... kindo f surprising because it's not like a quick googling would reveal which JRPGs were actually veyr good, as everyone has pointed out the obvious Persona 5 which is probably the pinnacle of modern JRPG formula.

Ni no Kuna 1 I also very much enjoyed and is also a veritible RPG, so, anyway I'm just saying: wtf why include shit like Nioh which is a half-assed, low-quality clone of Dark/Demon's Souls except without even motherfucking CHARACTER ATTRIBUTES / Char-development mechanics!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I ain't mad, as I got to vote for Nier which is a much better game than stuff like Torment 2 or D: OS 2, but it sure as FUCK ain't no goddamn RPG.

 

[hackncrazy]

There are a few actually competent games missing from the list. Monster's den, Alvora tactics, Starcrawlers.

Horizon:zero dawn shouldn't be bothered with - it is not even an RPG. Nioh did get a PC release and should technically qualify. If you consider Nier and Nioh, may as well include Trails of cold steel to the list (primarily console games getting PC releases in 2017).

Just as a curiosity:

Why does Nioh can be considered a RPG and Horizon can't?

 

[Gimble]

There are a few actually competent games missing from the list. Monster's den, Alvora tactics, Starcrawlers.

Horizon:zero dawn shouldn't be bothered with - it is not even an RPG. Nioh did get a PC release and should technically qualify. If you consider Nier and Nioh, may as well include Trails of cold steel to the list (primarily console games getting PC releases in 2017).

Just as a curiosity:

Why does Nioh can be considered a RPG and Horizon can't?

Nioh is not my preferred style of game either. Just based on the list, it qualifies in the same group as Nier and Surge for being on PC. Horizon is neither on PC, nor an RPG and not even a good game.

 

[fantadomat]

I whole-heartedly agree that the Jap games chosen for this poll are, while being excellent games (at least Nier, AFAIK @ the rest "shrug"), no one here or anywhere owuld EVER call them Codex-worthy RPGs.

It's... kindo f surprising because it's not like a quick googling would reveal which JRPGs were actually veyr good, as everyone has pointed out the obvious Persona 5 which is probably the pinnacle of modern JRPG formula.

Ni no Kuna 1 I also very much enjoyed and is also a veritible RPG, so, anyway I'm just saying: wtf why include shit like Nioh which is a half-assed, low-quality clone of Dark/Demon's Souls except without even motherfucking CHARACTER ATTRIBUTES / Char-development mechanics!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I ain't mad, as I got to vote for Nier which is a much better game than stuff like Torment 2 or D: OS 2, but it sure as FUCK ain't no goddamn RPG.

Aren't a little bit hypocritical here mate? Saying that Nier is not rpg yet voting it for the best rpg it is a two faced thing. Also i don't put any console exclusive shit here,it is forum for computer rpgs after all. Yes during the years the understanding of "computer" have become bloated and thus i decided to splash all the shit that is on the pc.

Segregating forums happened because throwing shit at each other is hardly a "intelligent discource" as you called it. Although intelligent people do make some nice and fun insults.

Also mate you are not crippled seeing how you can write essays here. You can just make a goty jrpg in the jrpg forum,use your quick google search skills and do it.

 

[draug]

Thanks for the write up (and video) aweigh. Thats pretty interesting. Im gonna have to whip out my fight stick and play some snes games now.

 

[Kitchen Utensil]

Nioh and Nier aren't jrpgs either though.

 

[Roguey]

Early 2000s RPG Codex, before the newfags came in droves, did not segregate forums.

Not so. Back in the day there was General RPG Discussion and General Discussion for everything else, including all other video game genres. JRPG discussion didn't happen on either forum. They may as well have not even existed.

 

[fantadomat]

Early 2000s RPG Codex, before the newfags came in droves, did not segregate forums.

Not so. Back in the day there was General RPG Discussion and General Discussion for everything else, including all other video game genres. JRPG discussion didn't happen on either forum. They may as well have not even existed.

That is what happens when you go tolerant. When you give in an inch they will bite off your arm.

 

[aweigh]

I expected a less dumb support of youre point of view, Roguey. Using straw-men so clumsily by pivoting with a well-worn "but X didn't happen anyway, because they already knew that the future held dozens of segregated sub-forums", something which is frankly impossible to dispute and simultaenously empty of any actual meaning, especially pertaining to this very specific, very granular forum and its changes throughout the years.

You also used a straw man of sorts, (please correct me if I'm wrong in calling it a straw man), by simply saying that (entirety of my expressions) is mutable because, "duh, nobody used to EVER talk about JRPGs, so there wasn't a need!", something that is actually very much provable as a lie, or I guess being generous here, something that is a blatant pivot intended as misdirection because you have nothing to say aside from sweeping statements and (ahem), some apparently infallible knowledge concerning the early Codex years; those can't be researched anymore in case you wanted to (I already tried digging up a lot of threads I remember); about 40% of them were lost in various "wipes" throughout the years, especially due to the Great Codex Rebellion.

What does remain of the 2002-2003 (i'd say up to 2004) gives the lie to your statement there that JRPGs were "never" discussed, but I'm not interested in catching you in a lie, or (again being generous) in watching you rail at something that no one, including myself, is actually sure what the hell it is that it must be railed against?

There were TONS of anime threads, (well, hentai ones...) in Codex of Yore, back in the Wild West Days, when a female poster would post a pic of herself and nomask7 would proceed to ejaculate frothily on her picture then upload his heroic deed and make a thread about it; yes, back in the halcyon days when even though shit like what I just mentioned happened, Codexers consistently behaved better than most of us do now:

And I don't mean in terms of philosophical morality or etiquette, fuck that shit; I mean in that discussions where majority of the thread's participants did not lose "their shit" if someone liked something they didn't, and instead would engage and (yes, sometimes make fun) but rarely, VERY RARELY, would you a thread receive 10 posters immediately each one typing out their zinger, their one-line comment that they try very hard to make as ironical, edgy, funny, sarcastic and hurtful and denigrating as possible all in one for those Kodex Kool Points.

Jasede used to make endless threads about JRPGs. You would know this by a mere 5 seconds of Google.com usage... Jasede, you should swing by this thread and give your 2 cents on the massive effects segregating the forums had, and hey, while you're at it, if you don't mind could you be a pal and tell Roguey that JRPGs discussion has been with the Codex since it's very inception, and NOT JUST THAT (!), but that Codex "founders" didn't act like children and go "OMG JRPG GO BACK TO UR SLUM FORUM YOU PIECE OF SHIT"?

Ahem.

Next time I expect at least 10 paragraphs roguey! And prison rules apply: no making more than 50% of the content of your reply embedded quotes from other people, instead I want to help you learn how to think for yourself and exercise a little thought process and be creative, and by god, I hope one day I'll be the proud Papa beaming at his little Roguey who has finally learned to make posts that are reflective of his (her?) actual human truth... instead of being an incredibly consistent bot of sorts with no opinions or ideas or passions to speak of save for those from others and thus weaponized.

 

[aweigh]

Ah, I was actually right! it WAS a type of straw man! I googled this just now:

Strawman Fallacy
Description: Substituting a person’s actual position or argument with a distorted, exaggerated, or misrepresented version of the position of the argument.

Logical Form:
Person 1 makes claim Y.
Person 2 restates person 1’s claim (in a distorted way).
Person 2 attacks the distorted version of the claim.
Therefore, claim Y is false.

Your attempt to turn my opinion that the eventual forum segregation is meaningless because "they never used to talk about JRPGs EVER anyway EVER EVER so you BASICALLY IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN SEGREGATED!!!!". Yes, it is. Anyway, it's not a bad one. Reminds me of those pundits when they show them an apple and she says, but what about the bananas, because the bananas therefore apple where?

EDIT: BTW, did you know that what I reference above regarding how intelligent discourse has deteriorated and a big, easy to spot sympton of this are what Vault Dweller used to refer to as "one line posts".

Roguey, lemme tell ya dude, there was actually a consideral period (about a few months or so) where VD really took it upon himself to CRACK THE FUCK DOWN on ANY posters who would enter a thread and make a "one line comment" that was not constructive.

I am DEADLY serious. It is... it is indisputable that the thread/forum inter-personal englightenment has eroded so dearly. At that time, man, I was young (lewl lewl), so I found VD's behavior "HE S A NAZI!!!" and I would sometimes go "MUH SPEECH !!! I WANT TO MAKE ONE LINE POST CALLING KIDS GAY!!!! I HATE VDDDDDD" !!!

...now, though, man I 100% understand his behavior now. He didn't sell out, he stuck to his principles in order to better the Codex; and then he bitched out like a punk ass when DU "beat him" and took the reigns, VD then went to his new ITS site/forum and became fat and mediocre carving out his own little mini-Codex of the old days with him ruling with an iron fist (ITS forums). I expected better from him

 

[Roguey]

You also used a straw man of sorts, (please correct me if I'm wrong in calling it a straw man), by simply saying that (entirety of my expressions) is mutable because, "duh, nobody used to EVER talk about JRPGs, so there wasn't a need!", something that is actually very much provable as a lie, or I guess being generous here, something that is a blatant pivot intended as misdirection because you have nothing to say aside from sweeping statements and (ahem), some apparently infallible knowledge concerning the early Codex years; those can't be researched anymore in case you wanted to (I already tried digging up a lot of threads I remember); about 40% of them were lost in various "wipes" throughout the years, especially due to the Great Codex Rebellion.

You can, just click "Start Date" twice and you can see the Codex in all its chronological glory. I went through 2002-2004 on both forums, I saw a single Xenogears thread that got five replies, not worth mentioning http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/xenogears.4457/

Anyway here's a smoking gun right from 2002:

If you're a "core RPG gamer", you'll know that Final Fantasy, whatever number is tacked on, isn't an RPG at all. It may have experience points and level advancement, but there's no role playing to it. You're just walking through the motions of someone else's idea on what you should be doing in the plot. You start as Cloud, you are Cloud, you'll never be anything other than what the designers of the game think Cloud is. That's not roleplaying.

Hell, the fact that you lose control of your character when dialogue rolls around nearly every single time should tip you off that you're not involved that much in your role.

Additionally here's a thread with a title that was a decade ahead of its time http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...moron-merging-and-moving-threads-again.109634

Hah, yeah.. But after reading that slashdot thread about this site, do we really want an invasion of thousands more people who thing Final Fantasy is what CRPGs should be like?

Also note that he says that the reason they don't have subforums is because they didn't have the traffic to justify it. Now we do.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

But what is an RPG Codex?

 

[Elex]

But what is an RPG Codex?

a forum for casual player that enjoi mass market products

 

[aweigh]

Nice Roguey ! TBH, the only surprising thing in those posts you dug up are Proverbius ideas about just what the hell constitutes an RPG, since nothing he cites is indicative of of whether the quotient leans more towards RPG or towards non-RPG. I would love to have him posting again, and reading these posts of him from long ago make it very obvious he was very much what Codexers now term "storyfags". I found this part particularly salient:

This quote:

Hell, the fact that you lose control of your character when dialogue rolls around nearly every single time should tip you off that you're not involved that much in your role.

There has been endless arguing, back and forth and back and forth about this type of scenario and its place and/or it's deserved (or unnecessary alternatively) in an RPG and he laid his opinion on this so well and so succintly. It is probably one of the very best bon mots I've yet read concerning the framing of role-playing in an RPG and its derivative exponentiality to writing and NPC dialog; simply put if you have no dialog trees it cannot be an RPG!

When you phrase it like I just did it sounds ridiculous, because of course an RPG does not need dialog trees, but Proverbius logical fallacy (yes, he is incorrect) tickles me, and it's proof once again of the main narrative I'm selling to you: that the Codex used to engage in much more diplomatic and simultaenously much more rationalistic approaches to the subjects we're still talking about today, such as whether or an RPG needs dialog trees and other things of that ilk; things which answers themselves in the end.

-- ANYWAY --

As I mentioned at the top: well done in finding something relevant to utilize from old posts, (no snark intended), but I wonder why you didn't continue quoting the rest of those threads?

Roguey, you rascal, you know very well that while it is a good move to quickly answer back with quotes from posters saying stuff which goes against my narrative your victory is short-lived:

- From the beginning of my first post upon taking issue with your "one line comment" post it is obvious to anyone who reads that:


PART I

Roguey says:

RPG Codex is a site founded for the discussion of computer role playing games. Console exclusive stuff gets banished to jrpg and general gaming.

I replied with the following:

St. Proverbius wouldn't agree 100% with that flat statement, my dear Roguey.

PART II

Roguey proceeds to quote the RPGCodex's "mission statement" which contradicts his entire premise:

The RPG Codex is a web-site devoted specifically to PC based role-playing games. It is a place that allows users to freely express their opinions about RPGs, without fear of their view being stifled, particularly when that view disagrees with the mainstream 5/5, A+, "Game of the Year" crappola that developers bribe game "journalists" for these days.


We've attracted an odd collection of people over the years and sometimes even developers have dared to brave the cold waters and participate in the discussion. If you're looking for a site where people respect each other, act courteously and politely agree to disagree, this isn't it. If you want respect here, you'll have to earn it. If you don't like that a thread is headed towards a flame war, you don't have to read that thread.


We don't lock threads just because they've had 20 pages of people arguing with each other. We let it run its course. Internet discussion doesn't kill you. If you want to understand more read: Edict from The Management™

I said that St. Proverbius would not 100% agree with you on your throw-away comment expressing that the Codex "has always been against JRPGs", and if you had bothered to post more of the stuff from the threads you dug up you will find that Proverbius basically never, ever was immutable enough to act genuinely dismissive to anyone who brought up JRPGs.

As you have proved, he would take the time, be it little or a lot, to make a quick, smart comment expressing quite succintly why he did not consider them RPGs and not denigrating the discourse by allowing what is essentially a 'belief system" of sorts to manipulate the discussion.

(Sure, once in a while he would say he was gonna kill someone, or that he had already done so, and by no means am I saying he didn't chew people out; my point is that he acted in accordance to the RPG Codex's motto of engaging with whoever and whatever, even if it was merely to quickly exclaim why JRPGs are not RPGs)

If you've been attention to this you'll notice that he also did not:

- did not bring "tastes" into the process. Ever. Go on and find proof he did while being legitimately serious.
- consistently (always, basically) held steadfast to his views and opinions on what RPGs mean to him and how an RPG is mechanically created and given life without doing things like saying "my type of RPGs are better than yours because X and Y and Z"..
- ...instead he would simply lay out his dole and let the other person come to their own conclusions, i.e. fulfilling the RPG Codex Motto.

PART III

Here comes the denoument, Roguey. I previously then said the following:

let me just rephrase and finish by saying that 2003-2004 era codexers, which included those founding members, legit did not give much of a fuck over JRPGS

...instead there was little JRPG talk in 2003-2004 codex simply because the posters/members of those years by and large didn't play them, most of them being a tiny bit too old...

I stand by my statement that early-Codex was much more respectful, for starters, of JRPGs in general (although obviously DISMISSIVE of them) and, and now this something almost no nowadays codexers seems to know, or at least, to realize!

Why did you not address what I actually wrote, Roguey? Why did you instead focus your entire energy in making sure you could provide evidence that Proverbius did not enjoy JRPGS... when I never argued that he did so?

Hmm... Roguey, snap out of it man! Anyway:

...With the great influx of new people, and for waaaay too many reasons that aren't discussed now cos I'm tired and I don't have forum posts handy for evidence anyway, somehow, SOMEHOW the notion that east V west is not only something "real" but that anything from japan is degenerate trash....

...THAT is my final argument in support of my statement. Under original founding fuckers THERE WOULD BE NO JRPG SUB-FORUM.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that it is obvious to anyone (not trying to be insulting, just the facts here) that in your "mission statement"'s content it is obvious they are referring to the RPG Codex founders journey for playing what we NOW CALL "c&c" RPGs, i.e. simple reactivity.

The fact that you twist that into them being against JRPGs simply proves... well, it proves you're something, not something I care enough to label but there is definitely an agenda in your way of communicating.

...The revelatory this detail is the this:

Forum segregation was 100% against what peeps like Proverbius and VD wanted, and I doubt it would ever even occur to them. Proverb specifically would call people who need a safe space without others talking about things they don't like to be utter morons and not worthy. But, as I mentioned, the evil japanese RPGs and whatnot were most definitely not something on their radar.

I first apologize for having to re-post the body and content of my initial premise, but I felt it was needed since you have still not mustered enough "Roguey-juice" to address them.

This is your home-work now Roguey, listen up! If you do it well you get to post again:

Your mission is to find Proverbius posts saying (and thus giving me the lie):

a) That he "hated", or hey at least "really really disliked" JRPGs. (He didn't like them, or enjoy them, but whether Codex posters made threads about them or even, god forbid would ask him about a JRPG, he would act in exactly the way that you, you Roguey (!), you yourself demonstrated WITH THAT AMAZING PROVERBIUS QUOTE ON JRPG MECHANICS for me and for everyone else; not with vitriol, nor dismissiveness, but with reasoned approaches and explications as to why they are what and why they are not that, so on and so forth.

b) Secondly, go through the time period when the Forum Segregation happeened, and now don't whine, this homework is not a punishment Roguey! But you do have to learn to actually talk about the topics that are being talked about Roguey! I know it's a harsh lesson but you will be a better Proverbius for it eventually!

Oh, right: many threads (not that many actually...) were made "discussing" whether or not to make every sub-type of RPG and whatever-the-fuck locked inside it's own little forum-bubble, and we all know who won and what happened: DU won and he tore the land asunder.

My main actual fucking point, you stupid fuck, is that the segregation had nothing to do with JRPGs (as you and others inferred indirectly, er, actually you outright 'ferred it directly), but rather was a decision which has negatively impacted the the entire "eco-system" of the RPG Codex forum, it's posters/denizes, and how discourse transformed for the worse, and that was when I then began explaining to you that things didn't used to be like this.

In any case, you get a gold star for disproving what I never said, and you get a double-star for trying to use unintelligent debate strategies in a very bad way.

All that said, I await your post when we can continue discussing what I began talking about, and not whether or not whatever the fuck it is you think we were talking about (giving you the benefit of the doubt here, as I can easily imagine you just being maliciously punitive in these situations).

 

[Roguey]

Your mission is to find Proverbius posts saying (and thus giving me the lie):

a) That he "hated", or hey at least "really really disliked" JRPGs. (He didn't like them, or enjoy them, but whether Codex posters made threads about them or even, god forbid would ask him about a JRPG, he would act in exactly the way that you, you Roguey (!), you yourself demonstrated WITH THAT AMAZING PROVERBIUS QUOTE ON JRPG MECHANICS for me and for everyone else; not with vitriol, nor dismissiveness, but with reasoned approaches and explications as to why they are what and why they are not that, so on and so forth.

To bad Final Fantasy blows and is the worst RPG ever and even if they try to port a final fantasy game on PC I'll hunt them down.

Do you know how many FF clones there are being done independently? There' gobs of them.. GOBS. I run across a plethora of them every single month when I sweep around looking for new indie CRPGs in development. I just can't stand FF games, so I don't post about them.

b) Secondly, go through the time period when the Forum Segregation happeened, and now don't whine, this homework is not a punishment Roguey! But you do have to learn to actually talk about the topics that are being talked about Roguey! I know it's a harsh lesson but you will be a better Proverbius for it eventually!

The split happened about two years after I joined, so no need.

 

[Jasede]

We have talked about jRPGs from day one I registered here, usually only the good ones because, well, back then we all had taste, so typically nobody took issue because back then it wasn't edgy to go "CHRONO TRIGGER? LOL Kill yourself, weeb!! We only discuss TRUE RPGSSSS!!!" here, and if anyone had been that edgy we'd have quickly set them straight by spamming tubgirl until they see the error in their ways.

I admit my memory is dodgy at best but there has never been a time we self-censored when it came to jRPGs. It was generally understood they were essentially an evolution/corruption (depends on the poster) of Wizardry. We did have pretty long threads about "Are jRPGs RPGs?" and they were often inconclusive but I think to remember the answer was mostly "Yes, but different."

About segregation, this is more of a personal issue. I think on the one hand it makes sense: there are more posts now. On the other hand, I read way less threads because I simply miss most of them. The company subforums are a wasteland to me, I never remember that there is an Obsidian forum, for example. If I wanna talk about an Obsidian game I expect it in general RPG. In my opinion, the only thing the jRPG/General RPG split has done is cause endless "Is X an jRPG?" threads, like with Dark Souls. The current solution is also retarded. "It was made in Japan so it's a jRPG, even if it's a western RPG." -- lol wut?

 

[aweigh]

Roguey wtf, are you trying? Look at what you just posted in response:

I just can't stand FF games, so I don't post about them.

For the benefit of the jury: this is the proper attitude and correct behavior when dealing with people whose predilections are alien to you. Is your "reply" simply you expressing agreement that yes, Proverbius (and in my arguement by extension his historical colleagues at that time) a higher quality of RPG Codex poster who actually practised things like actively going out of his way to not belittle things (JRPGs in this case) that he is noticeing first-hand others on his website enjoy?

If by chance you are taking the angle that somehow Proverbius doesn't know that zero-zum is not applicable here, then that is just plain rude and SHAME ON YOU for such a weak-willed insinuation. You can do better.

Uh, ok! Yes, Roguey, thank you for seeing it my way, although this not what I wanted

I want you to grow a spine... no, scratch that, I wish you would develop a semblence of a persoanlity! But I must posit a big caveat: I am assuming here that you are simply a quirky RPG Codex citizen; and your bot-posting of other people's words, ideas, thoughts, expressions and their graces instead of ever, ever being able to communicate something truthful from your own self (in the divine/philosophical sense of the owrd 'truth', mind you).

But, fuck it, It's fine. I know everybody has their own time table. I'll always be here to continually remind you that your existence in the RPG Codex, no, your entire collective amalgamation of posts, threads and assorted interactions is legitimately offensive; it offends me as a fellow Codexer because the ponit of this place is to-- as you yourself quoted above --to engage in discourse, to elucidate and to enlighten while simultaenously meeting head-on that and those who lie to themselves and take it out on others not by merciless bullying or whatever, but by showing them via your own personally constructed and DE-constructed ideas and aphorisms and theories and all that beuaitufl stuff with the then hope that they'll reciprocate in kind--

-- not necessarily in that they reciprocate and agree with you, but that a spirited and engaging forum discussion will then COMMENCE! That is glorious!

Not to dismiss they whose manner alienates but to stand knee-deep in the same muck with them, and say: "Ok, I can understand your line of reasoning, and I think it holds several strengths, although also some flaws; now what I have to say about that ideological construct in response is so and so and so...".

Sorry, I'm just jazzed from reading some Spinoza. Oh, and your line at the end "i dun need to" at the end was pathetic.

 

[Jasede]

I also didn't actually notice what this thread was about.

I just did and voted NieR: Automata. I'll try to explain.

Grimoire is just too disappointing on too many levels. The music, the art, the UI, the monster design, the design decisions, the character creation, the lack of portraits... there are too many things holding it back to even consider it a viable choice unless you are edgy -- or REALLY love Wizardry-like games and were starved for one, but let me and Roguey assure you, there are quite a few better ones if that's the case, like Elminage: Gothic.

Original Sin 2 I haven't played so it wouldn't make sense to pick it for me, but it looks good. Writing seemed better than other Larian games from what little I have seen, which was always the thing that held them back a lot; that and uninteresting encounters.

ELEX I truly loved and adored. Once. I will never touch it again. It just has nothing long-term going for it. It's great because it's the closest thing to Gothic 2 we're gonna get in a long time. Maybe that's why Grimoire has so many votes: closest we'll get to Wizardry 7 in a long while. I can see that, even if I disagree.

Now, NieR: Automata.

That game has so many problems: the presentation is very anime, the story takes a long time to become engrossing, the game requires a lot of trust and patience from the player, and unless you get invested in it, it will do nothing for you. There are technical issues with the port and no real patch in sight, nor will there ever be because SQUEENIX is a soulless megacorp.

However, and of course I will get bad ratings for this from the usual suspects, the game is a masterpiece despite its flaws. Unlike ELEX it has substance. A real soul. If you are a human being with healthy emotions, NieR: Automata is an experience you're not likely to ever forget. It's a a grand work of art in the sense that I will never have to replay it, not even once, and yet will always remember its twists and the story it told, and the earth-shattering conclusion.

Yoko Taro has built up many expectations over the years of delivering a 'weird' or 'strange' experience, with a big 'fuck you' to the player. But in this game, he doesn't give the player a 'fuck you'. He gives us a 'fuck you, Square-Enix' and that alone is a stroke of genius that only Yoko Taro can pull off. Never have I been happier to delete a game and my savegames from my hard drive as after this game. It pulls off that thing at the end far better than sometimes overhyped (but still quite good) Undertale does, narratively, and that in itself is impressive.

To be honest, that fact that Yoko Taro can still surprise me after all the shit he pulled is saying something in itself. I know nobody who can pull off this theme so consistently and yet manage to still shatter everything I expected by the end of it. The moment the game previews the third part is incredible, or the third title drop, or the credits, or the whole system issues, or even all the little questions it gleefully asks.

Not to mention the chip-upgrade mechanics are sound, the combat technically flawlless and the boss fights intense and interesting.

So I am gonna have to give it to NieR: Automata and just suck up that people are gonna disagree. (By which I mean, be wrong.)

Edit: also NieR shouldn't be on the list -- despite RPG mechanics, it's an action-adventure, with RPG elements. But since it's on the list... If it weren't I'd vote Elex, even though I think it was ultimately shallow. But it is miles better than Elex, and I liked Elex.

 

[aweigh]

Jasede

The legitimately sad consequence of the segregation is that people VERY rarely bothering venturing outside their comfort zone/sub-forum, and it is in my vew indisputable that while there may be benefits, there is also a downside that is impossible to measure because that downside is the fact that with most Codexers posting only in their little sub-forum bubble the overall quality of discussing broadly about not just RPGs and their mechanics/etc, but talking about things tangentially interconnected: all because it has been proven for (well, since forever) that isolated groups benefit in some ways, sometimes greatly and uniquely, but time and again it is known that isolation does not foster even the simple urge, the inkling to broach beyond what make sense to you.

TL;DR everybody ends up losing out on everyone else, with the majority assumning predictable attitudes that communicate that they know X and Y and Z because they are from THAT sub-forum and thus, thus, thus, thus, etc; you get the picture. It is actually similar, in a completely simplified and electronic and without all the real world impact, similar to how arbas and their many, many "sub-tribes/cultures/ethnicities/etc" all continually remain at level 5, when they could reach level 25 if they engaged with each other more often.

LOL, I know this will get me 10x dumbfuck/retarded tags, but I wholeheartedly think the most intelligent forum thinkers concerning RPG design are in the JRPG sub-forum. I spent most of my Codex career posting only in what is now "GRPG", and I one day stumbled onto the JRPG forum because a Wiz thread I made was moved over to there (because it was about a SNES remake of Wiz 5), and that ended up being the beginning of me finding a literal plethora of friendly, collected posters who all know their shit to the x-treme, and I have never seen a single ego outburst over there because when everybody is intelligent... what poinst is there in not engaging with each other?

I know everyone thinks all JRPG sub-forum posters are for some reason sub-humans, etc (I prefer the term "Aborted Zika babies", hehe), and I by no means am exhorting ANYONE to suddenly go to JRPG sub-forum now and making threads and shit attempting to show anyone up, but if actually go ahead and do that: lol get ready to get rekt.

GRPG forum is losing out massively on the many thoughtly writings/ideas that blossom in JRPG sub-forum, and that ain't no lie. Feel free to not believe me, it's 100% your right.

I mean, fuck, you think there are grognards in GRPG? They are actually in JRPG sub-forum. I know, I know, "BULLSHIT! FUCK U JAP LOVER", etc, etc, but it is the truth. JRPG sub-forum citizens rarely like flashing or flaunting themselves and also post in other sub-forums rarely or not that frequently because, frankly speaking, they are already accostumed to Civil Discource with other Intelligent posters; i.e. "ain't no need I got at home".

And hey, who KNOWS what's going on in all those sub-forums that I don't know anything about!!!!! Instead of thinking to immediately make them out as inferior, why not for at least briefly allow some graceful process to take action within you and think about what you're missing out on, and on what THEY are missing out on... etc, etc. Whatever.

 

[Jasede]

I made a helpful illustration:

 

[Roguey]

The company subforums are a wasteland to me, I never remember that there is an Obsidian forum, for example. If I wanna talk about an Obsidian game I expect it in general RPG.

Good news, all threads that appear in the subforums also appear in the main forum. You're not missing anything.

 

[fantadomat]

What is with your complex of inferiority guys?! When i want to talk about jrpgs i go in the jrpg forum,when i want to talk about anime i go in the anime thread and when i want to talk about crpg i go in the general rpg. I don't go around spamming that shit around in the other subforums. aweigh you sound as if you are beginning a crusade for social justice and equality on the forum. Also you sound like pretensions asshole insulting all the people in the GRPG for no reason. How frequent people go on the JRPG forum and say that all the jrpg fans are retards and the only smart people are in the GRPG forum?http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?members/jasede.2607/

Jasede,made you vote for whatever you like ,that is the point of the poll. I put Nier for the anime/jrpg fans,to have a vote options. Doubt that there are many jrpg from 2017 that could beat Nier in popularity,still i am not big fan on the jrpg so i don't know. When it comes to ELEX and Nier the opposite is true for me,i saw Nier as another soulless jap action rpg and ELEX had a real soul that filed me with happiness.

 

[Urthor]

The year isn't over yet, and all those games are meh except Divinity 2 which had buggy as shit 4th act. Underrail's expansion still has time to get released and as such I will refrain from voting.