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KickStarter Serpent in the Staglands Thread

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,426
Players don't care for exact probabilities. 4-12 is enough of information.

Probably not from a pure probability perspective, but I don't think there's any meaningful differences for gameplay.

Am I seriously reading this bullshit on RPGCodex, of all the places? 4-12 and 4d3 are already radically different on their own. Once you consider other stats and modifiers, and enemy stats, it's an entirely different ballgame. Here's a simple one for you: Someone doing 4d3 damage, with plus 2 luck modifier to rolls, will be doing max damage in every attack.

BTW, I'm guessing you guys are POE fans.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Uh, has there ever even been an RPG where you got a bonus for every individual dice roll in that way?
 

Whiran

Magister
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
641
Players don't care for exact probabilities. 4-12 is enough of information.
I think that would depend on how the information was displayed.

If people realized that the probability distribution was different based on the number of dice and the range of the dice (e.g. 1d6 is different than 2d6 which is different than 2d4) then they'd care. Knowing that 4d3 is different than 4-12 and would give 8 23.5% of the time instead of 12.5% of the time makes a difference when picking a weapon.

However, that information is "hidden" behind "obscure" mathematics that most people don't want to care about that when playing a game. A nice (simple) visual representation of the probability distribution would do wonders for understanding at a glance what is going on.

Or, one could just show the DPS of the weapon.. I don't like that as much but it is something that most games more or less understand since DPS usually takes into consideration all factors in calculating damage and give the average over time. That is why DPS became a thing after all - a way to quickly check how much damage was actually being done after all the variables were included.

One of my gripes with Serpent in the Staglands is how item information is portrayed - I wish there was an easy way to check out what an item's stats are (like mouse over the item and press control or something to bring up its stats) and how it differs from another of the same time. Maybe there is and I just don't know it yet.
 

roshan

Arcane
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Messages
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Uh, has there ever even been an RPG where you got a bonus for every individual dice roll in that way?

Icewind Dale, Icewind Dale 2, Planescape Torment. These are ones I'm sure of. But I thought most DND games worked that way.
 

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,426
Uh, has there ever even been an RPG where you got a bonus for every individual dice roll in that way?

Icewind Dale, Icewind Dale 2, Planescape Torment. These are ones I'm sure of. But I thought most DND games worked that way.

Not that I know of. In D&D, you get (4d3) + 2, not 4(d3+2).

How it works in the games I mentioned is that you get [(1d3) + 2 (up to the maximum)] + [(1d3) + 2 (up to the maximum)] + [(1d3) + 2 (up to the maximum)] + [(1d3) + 2 (up to the maximum)]. So you would be doing maximum damage all the time.

Real example: In Icewind Dale 2, if you have a greatsword (2d6) damage, and you equip the ring that gives you +4 luck and get another +1 luck any other way, you will always do maximum damage. Versus if you had a great axe (1d12) in which case you would be doing maximum damage 50% of the time, with a minimum damage of 6.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I really don't think it works that way. It would make multiple dice damage values absurdly overpowered, on top of the advantage they already have over single dice rolls by being more weighed towards the average.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dice_notation

To this basic notation, an additive modifier can be appended, yielding expressions of the form, AdX+B. The plus is sometimes replaced by a minus sign ("−") to indicate subtraction. B is a number to be added to the sum of the rolls.

http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/14969/understanding-weapon-damage

2d6+3 would range between 5 to 15.

(and not 8 and 18)
 

jagged-jimmy

Prophet
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Freeside
Codex 2012
Combat can be horribly broken:
Basically can kill whole towns with proper AC earning tons of XP/loot - > also nobody cares, can still use merchants and bounties.
"Emplify" and you characters will attack continiously with no pause at all (AS=0) - which is fun but also overpowered like hell.
"Eclipse" + high occult and fast hitting character (dmg does not matter) -> whole party is healed constantly=godmode.

It's kinda fun to use interesting combat combos, but the game feels broken and there is no challenge. Ok, so far i fought only humans (also pit fights), some witches/leles.
 

roshan

Arcane
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Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,426
I really don't think it works that way. It would make multiple dice damage values absurdly overpowered, on top of the advantage they already have over single dice rolls by being more weighed towards the average.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dice_notation

You are confusing basic + bonuses with LUCK bonuses to rolls. A luck bonus in the IE games is in fact ABSURDLY overpowered. Luck doesn't add to rolls, it just scales them upward.

How luck works: If you have +2 luck and you roll a 1d6 and you get 6, it remains 6. If you roll a 5, it becomes 6. If you roll a 4, it becomes 6. If you roll a 3, it becomes 5. If you roll a 2, it becomes 4.

The same principle applies to multiple rolls. If it's 2d4, and you roll a 1 and a 3, it becomes 3 and 4, so you do 7 damage out of the maximum 8.

You can test this out by playing IWD2 and equipping Young Ned's Knucky or Tymora's Loop. With the Knucky and the Loop, your mage will always do maximum damage with a fireball spell (unless they save, in which case you do half of maximum). Similarly, your fighter with any weapon that is d6 or less will always consistently do the exact same (maximum) amount of damage.

I haven't even gotten to how it affects your critical chance... using luck modifiers you end up with beasts that do in the hundreds of damage per attack.
 

Stompa

Arcane
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
531
One of my gripes with Serpent in the Staglands is how item information is portrayed - I wish there was an easy way to check out what an item's stats are (like mouse over the item and press control or something to bring up its stats) and how it differs from another of the same time. Maybe there is and I just don't know it yet.

Gonna second that, comparing items isn't particularly convenient. SitS also seems to be very shy to show full info to the player. I have zero idea why, for example, characters have different amount of HP, the only kind of HP bonus I've seen stated is one racial ability. Putting points into attributes doesn't alter combat stats until confirming your choice, so you can't exactly see how they will affect your character beforehand. Rolls don't line up with what the stats tell you, I've had a result of 5 on a 1d3 damage roll for seemingly no reason.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Ah, I'd actually forgotten that the concept of a "Luck bonus" exists. It probably shouldn't.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
So, how does stealing stats by use of aptitude work? Haven't invested in aptitudes yet as I wanna discover more about the game first.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Where are the saves stored, can't find them?
Someone already asked this. They are in the most impractical dir possible. C:\Users\<Username>\AppData\LocalLow\Whalenought Studios

It's little details like this that bug me about the game, but on the whole, I'm happy.
 

jagged-jimmy

Prophet
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Codex 2012
So, how does stealing stats by use of aptitude work? Haven't invested in aptitudes yet as I wanna discover more about the game first.
You have to have at least 1 point in philosophy and an item ("Thieving Imp"). You can free the Imp and ask him to steal stats. I think with low philosophy you can only steal stats you already skilled a bit. I could not steal anything i had 10 in, but could steal my main stat from companion of my choosing. Companion looses 2, you gain 2.
 

NotAGolfer

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Divinity: Original Sin 2
"Death marks your flesh for the carrion god."
:x

Goddamn it, this game really puts the Gee! in RNG.
:love:

That womyn facepalming everytime I reload kinda triggers me btw.
6TjC6Sg.jpg
 
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Stompa

Arcane
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
531
So, how does stealing stats by use of aptitude work? Haven't invested in aptitudes yet as I wanna discover more about the game first.
You have to have at least 1 point in philosophy and an item ("Thieving Imp"). You can free the Imp and ask him to steal stats. I think with low philosophy you can only steal stats you already skilled a bit. I could not steal anything i had 10 in, but could steal my main stat from companion of my choosing. Companion looses 2, you gain 2.

I don't think it's like that, at first level of Philosophy I couldn't steal anything but Occult, the stat I didn't level. At second, Perception became available. Now at third I can also steal Strength.
 

Doctor Sbaitso

SO, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR PROBLEMS.
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Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands
Pretty charming first couple of hours. So far I think they did a good job of capturing the "oh fuck here they come" of combat in Darklands. First pause is always about setting up your formation or your squshies will get creamed.

Did anyone open the portal to the wolf demigod in the library, go in and live to tell the tale?
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
"Death marks your flesh for the carrion god."
:x

Goddamn it, this game really puts the Gee! in RNG.
:love:

That womyn facepalming everytime I reload kinda triggers me btw.
6TjC6Sg.jpg
Thanks for posting this, I wanted to cut that out see if we can get it added to emotes
 

da_rays

Augur
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Jan 23, 2014
Messages
382
Location
Filthy Pub , Quebec City
Well i thought my lvl 4 party was capable of handling most encounter ( was mostly in the beginning area ) . Then i wander off a bit to the north , stumble upon some frozen ruin. Ran into 2 horrible spiders , party weakened , but victorious. :dance:

Crawler sneaked up on me :
187 DMG to my main dude :negative: Note to self: Check ruin ~later~
 

The Fish

Arcane
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
1,216
Did anyone open the portal to the wolf demigod in the library, go in and live to tell the tale?

She tasks you with killing the bloodless hunters (if you have high philosophy). If you do she then asks that you use a summoning scroll when you meet octavian so she can mate (rape) with him. You're only supposed to be able to kill the bloodless with silver weapons, the whips that the bloodless hunters carry seem to be enough to kill her.

Crawlers are broken too

You're supposed to run from them. A character in the game says that at least. You can fly past them unmolested with the bat morphing spell.


Any idea what the rune and glyph combination for this is? I've found over a dozen combinations but none seem to work.

This is in ista cale btw.
Hmf9taU.jpg
 
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Haba

Harbinger of Decline
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Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Did anyone open the portal to the wolf demigod in the library, go in and live to tell the tale?

Please post the runes you used for that, I'm bugged and can't get the way open without the second one.

Crawlers are broken too

You're supposed to run from them. A character in the game says that at least. You can fly past them unmolested with the bat morphing spell.

Nah, you'll have to kill them later. You'll be seeing packs of 5+ of them...

It is strangely fitting that
Codexian Anus-monster
is the strongest foe in the game.

I don't even feel bad abusing Hallucinagon against them. Horrible things, kill them whenever I can.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Developer
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
From the first town

Some guy said there was something up with the well and told me if I figured out what was up with it, he'd send his son. I've been through that place and all I found were some Shroomers and Imps but he still has no more dialogue. What exactly was I suppose to find?

get some woodwise and talk to the rat by the well that is next to the gravesite. If you give it some food (I know it likes salted meat), the rat will tell you some things it has seen.

That said, I haven't used that information to talk to the guy again, because I was at a wedding last night.

SitS is a great game, but combat is a little weird and could do with a tutorial. Better yet, tweak it a little so enemies don't just beeline past your front line; in darklands, the enemy would engage the person taking a swing at them.
 

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