Vapourware Seven Dragon Saga - Gold Box spiritual successor from SSI veterans

[Darkzone]

If I could wave a magic wand and make them design a 3D view port for adventuring mode, I would. Obviously, it's not a deal breaker for me. I'd rather have the larger party of 6. Maybe TSI looked at the success of Wasteland 2, D:OS, PoE, and decided that isometric was the way to go for a kickstarter campaign. Should the developers free themselves from the constraints of appealing to the masses for funding, perhaps they will re-visit perspective and overall UI presentation.

It is also not a deal breaker for me. I just hope, that they make a good RPG.

 

[Jaesun]

Any chance they are working on getting the GoldBox games on GoG? He met with the WotC guys too..

While Ubisoft does own SSI older properties, it is possible the entire Gold Box game rights are a fucking mess (like the System Shock rights).

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Any chance they are working on getting the GoldBox games on GoG? He met with the WotC guys too..

While Ubisoft does own SSI older properties, it is possible the entire Gold Box game rights are a fucking mess (like the System Shock rights).

Infinitron asked them on their forum and with the answer they have give I was under the impression its only Ubisoft and WotC/Hasbro. Since Dave had a meeting with both parties within a few days..

Our understanding is that SSI became part of Ubisoft in 2001. Regarding the specifics of the D&D license, that does require WotC/Hasbro’s approval.

We, along with all of the fans, would love to see the Gold Box games be made available on GOG.com or some other outlet(s).

 

[Alchemist]

I guess they really just aren't interested in making a true Gold Box successor and have other design goals in mind.

Yep. They never said a new Gold Box game was coming, just "We made some games you loved, including these."

I know - and I think that's a shame. That's one reason (among others) why the Kickstarter is failing. They should have known that what most people want is a new Gold Box game with modern technology. But it's obvious now that's not the game they want to make. So be it - if they ignore the Gold Box niche they have a very uphill battle to fight in getting funding and making something distinctive. Right now the vision they present is very hazy and generic. Just saying "we're old SSI guys - give us money and trust us, we'll make a cool game!" isn't going to cut it.

 

[Telengard]

Gold Box? We were the minority back then, and it's even worse now. Especially since most of our group aren't even into gaming anymore. They'd want a much smaller team if they went that route, keep costs real low.

On the other hand, if they want an insta-hit without doing much marketing work, just say Menzoberranzan II with Drizzt as player character again. Actually cash in on current nostalgia.

 

[Zombra]

Yep. They never said a new Gold Box game was coming, just "We made some games you loved, including these."

I know - and I think that's a shame. That's one reason (among others) why the Kickstarter is failing. They should have known that what most people want is a new Gold Box game with modern technology. But it's obvious now that's not the game they want to make. So be it - if they ignore the Gold Box niche they have a very uphill battle to fight in getting funding and making something distinctive. Right now the vision they present is very hazy and generic. Just saying "we're old SSI guys - give us money and trust us, we'll make a cool game!" isn't going to cut it.

Yeah. It's kind of no-win for me ... I'm even groggier than the Gold Box grognards ... Gold Box wasn't SSI's best work in my opinion. If they tried to "cash in" with the gigantic ←irony Gold Box nostalgia dollar by pushing a souped up Gold Box clone, I'd be like, "Eh, OK." The game they're actually planning to do sounds way better to me. I hope they can come back with a more coherent, focused second pitch next time and really sell it on its merits from day one. Assuming a miracle doesn't happen with this campaign, which I guess it still might.

 

[Apexeon]

2D is the best.

2D Art is based on the talent of the artist and his/her desire for that perfect shot/scene.
The artist sets the scene and ignites the imagination.
Passionate Crpg 2D artist is what I would be hunting for.

 

[Zed]

Good 2d is great.
Good 3d is great.

The problem in the games industry isn't graphical dimensions, it's style and vision. I long for game developers to commission real artists. Real musicians too.

 

[Jaesun]

Good 2d is great.
Good 3d is great.

The problem in the games industry isn't graphical dimensions, it's style and vision. I long for game developers to commission real artists. Real musicians too.

If only Westwood Studios could make a comeback.

THAT would be the single greatest thing EVAR.

 

[Apexeon]

Good 2d is great.
Good 3d is great.

The problem in the games industry isn't graphical dimensions, it's style and vision. I long for game developers to commission real artists. Real musicians too.

If only Westwood Studios could make a comeback.

THAT would be the single greatest thing EVAR.

RIP Westwood .

Its more about the people that were at Westwood and the passion they had for there work.
The music groups name is nothing without the music groups players and lead singer.

EA just grabs names then milks the corpse, then bins it.

 

[felipepepe]

I wonder where all the artists went... the guys who did the 2D art on Eye of the Beholder, Lands of Lore, Star Control 2, Ishar, Ultima, Bard's Tale... fucking Defender of the Crown...

 

[Apexeon]

I wonder where all the artists went... the guys who did the 2D art on Eye of the Beholder, Lands of Lore, Star Control 2, Ishar, Ultima, Bard's Tale... fucking Defender of the Crown...

They work at the 7/11 with me.

****** 3D ******** trash art put us out of work.
Oh and the mobile phone stain games that have popped up (game developers looking for the quick, dirty and easy money).
I refuse to make that ****.

When you get down to the pixel you start to get real with the art.
All this talk of the Unity Asset store being great from certain people shows me they have no clue on what made old school game great. Cut and paste art leads to a cut and paste feel.

• Hand placed loot
• Hand crafted art (as close as you can get).
• Hand crafted quests
• etc...

 

[LESS T_T]

Indeed. I've just looked up Mobygames credits for curiosity. Many of them just disappeared from mid 90s to late 90s, presumably most games from that period started to require 3D artists (even if it's pre-render) rather than 2D artists. Few of survivors turned themselves to producer, designer or "CG supervisor."

 

[Alchemist]

I wonder where all the artists went... the guys who did the 2D art on Eye of the Beholder, Lands of Lore, Star Control 2, Ishar, Ultima, Bard's Tale... fucking Defender of the Crown...

Rick Parks was one of the key artists for Eye of the Beholder / Lands of Lore / Legend of Kyrandia - looks like he passed away in 1996. http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,699/

I think a lot of pixel artists were encouraged to learn 3D or else they wouldn't be able to stay competitive or keep jobs. Also back in those mid-to-late 90's days even a lot of the 2D sprite art was based on 3D pre-rendering. I was working in the industry starting in 1996 and saw the fading away of pixel art techniques first hand. At that time everything was moving toward 3D pre-rendering and soon after that it was all about real-time 3D.

 

[getter77]

If I had to pick a "recent" example of a different stylistic approach that they'd quite possibly have been better served working with hewing closer to the 2D roots, on top of all else really, it'd have to be the also successfully Kickstarted Antharion that hopefully emerges from their hard, but quiet, work:

http://orphicsoftware.com/

Really, the more I think back, the outstanding majority of their pitch should've essentially been Antharion's scaled to reasonable 2015 KS totals---doubly so since, IIRC, The Gold Box series was something they strongly implied as one of their direct inspirations.

 

[FuriousGamer87]

Good 2d is great.
Good 3d is great.

The problem in the games industry isn't graphical dimensions, it's style and vision. I long for game developers to commission real artists. Real musicians too.

For that kind of thing, a lot of $$$ is needed.
Hence the kikekickstarter.

 

[tuluse]

Rick Parks was one of the key artists for Eye of the Beholder / Lands of Lore / Legend of Kyrandia - looks like he passed away in 1996. http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,699/

I think a lot of pixel artists were encouraged to learn 3D or else they wouldn't be able to stay competitive or keep jobs. Also back in those mid-to-late 90's days even a lot of the 2D sprite art was based on 3D pre-rendering. I was working in the industry starting in 1996 and saw the fading away of pixel art techniques first hand. At that time everything was moving toward 3D pre-rendering and soon after that it was all about real-time 3D.

Wasn't a lot of the background art that LucasArts and Sierra did physical paintings that were scanned in?

I imagine those people could still be doing texture art if they wanted to (I know HL2 featured a lot of scanned oil paintings as textures, one reason it still looks so good today).

 

[Whiran]

For that kind of thing, a lot of $$$ is needed.
Hence the kikekickstarter.

I'd argue otherwise.

It's the same amount of money but it needs a strong artistic vision which means it needs vision.

 

[FuriousGamer87]

For that kind of thing, a lot of $$$ is needed.
Hence the kikekickstarter.

I'd argue otherwise.

It's the same amount of money but it needs a strong artistic vision which means it needs vision.

Actually, I would counter argue that the Unity market assets that they are using for the gameplay portion of the trailer demonstrate that they currently don't have the dough to hire an actual professional artist or two.
You don't magic this kind of stuff up from thin air.
To have an artistic vision or an actual visual design, you need a skilled artist first so he/she/it/whatever will take charge of that.
Those don't come cheap.

 

[Alchemist]

Wasn't a lot of the background art that LucasArts and Sierra did physical paintings that were scanned in?

I imagine those people could still be doing texture art if they wanted to (I know HL2 featured a lot of scanned oil paintings as textures, one reason it still looks so good today).

I don't have first-hand experience in the process the adventure game companies used - but yes, I believe they did scan in paintings during a certain era.
And yes, becoming a texture artist was certainly a viable path for skilled 2D artists during the industry shift to 3D engines. Also concept art.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...y-tactical-simulations-interact/posts/1171520

David Shelley, Lead Designer, with details on Character Specialties

Where Race give shape to the character, innate toughness, mobility, senses, and link to the mystical; and Class defined the character’s core features; Specialty gives it a final direction. Experimenting with the three pieces is quick and fun, and generates interesting synergies. Here is an overview of the Specialties.

Deadly. Extra attacks during the encounter, extra damage, increases to the statistic used for damage, and the Mystic Leap ability to get to where you need to deal damage. Did I say damage often enough? Works well with any character you don’t want focused on support. Tactical. Some damage support, but more importantly, it gives a character access to all the weapons in the game. Prefer your Knight to be sword and board? Make him a Tactical Knight. Want the Scout to be up close and personal with blades? Make him Tactical. Fast. The best Mystic Leaping range of any class, lots of teleports, some extra actions to get extra movement. If you want the character to get where the enemy is weakest, or kite the slow beast, then Fast is a good choice. Shade Elves and Half Shades have an innate Flash Step, which can complement Fast, while the dragonkin races have Surefooted, meaning they ignore difficult terrain. Priestly. This is an overall control and support Specialty. Some healing, anti-magic, harm undead, pin, leadership, a few talismans to toss around, and some good social skills make this an all-around useful choice. Priestly Soultenders get very strong heals, while Priestly Wraith Hunters have the best harm undead. A Priestly Wizard can both cast spells and cancel other magic (including breath weapons and such). Defensive. Lots more hit points, harder to hit in combat, luckier, and the powerful deflection ability, increase the character’s survival significantly. Best with Classes using light armor, heavy armor characters still benefit. Tough. A bit of healing, good hit points, some protection from Trauma, better statistics, and the taunt ability to guide the enemy to this more survivable character. An obvious choice with heavy armor, though hardly useless to light armor characters. Rogue. This Specialty provides the classic thief skills of streetwise, lockpick, traps and bluff. Harder to hit, an emphasis on dexterity, leaping capability, make the character mobile. A few talismans provide some mystical firepower (think grenades, and pools). A natural to combine with the stealthy Scout, and/or the Doorwalking High Elf, it adds some style to other characters. Who says the thief need to be the squishiest? A Rogue Knight can handle both traps and ambushes while out on point. Noble. Another leadership, evasive Specialty, with the skills of the court: seduction, socialize, politics and bureaucracy. So, in combat, better survivability, and some support feature. With diplomacy, the critical skills to thrive. The seven elements. These seven allow any character to have proficiency to cast spells. It further allows Wizards to cast the most powerful spells, and at a longer range. Some teleport ability allows them to move about the battlefield. Weapon users can benefit from using spells to add elemental damage. See my discussion on magic for the feel of each element.

I’ve now presented a brief overview on the three main pieces of creating a character. It gives rise to many different characters, and allows customizing to varied play styles. We love the ability to experiment, and hope you will too. There is also the further synergy of putting together all six members of the team.

I’ll talk about the Goals system for each character in another update.

blargh use paragraphs next time

 

[Zombra]

Broken into paragraphs for my bros:

Deadly. Extra attacks during the encounter, extra damage, increases to the statistic used for damage, and the Mystic Leap ability to get to where you need to deal damage. Did I say damage often enough? Works well with any character you don’t want focused on support.

Tactical. Some damage support, but more importantly, it gives a character access to all the weapons in the game. Prefer your Knight to be sword and board? Make him a Tactical Knight. Want the Scout to be up close and personal with blades? Make him Tactical.

Fast. The best Mystic Leaping range of any class, lots of teleports, some extra actions to get extra movement. If you want the character to get where the enemy is weakest, or kite the slow beast, then Fast is a good choice. Shade Elves and Half Shades have an innate Flash Step, which can complement Fast, while the dragonkin races have Surefooted, meaning they ignore difficult terrain.

Priestly. This is an overall control and support Specialty. Some healing, anti-magic, harm undead, pin, leadership, a few talismans to toss around, and some good social skills make this an all-around useful choice. Priestly Soultenders get very strong heals, while Priestly Wraith Hunters have the best harm undead. A Priestly Wizard can both cast spells and cancel other magic (including breath weapons and such).

Defensive. Lots more hit points, harder to hit in combat, luckier, and the powerful deflection ability, increase the character’s survival significantly. Best with Classes using light armor, heavy armor characters still benefit.

Tough. A bit of healing, good hit points, some protection from Trauma, better statistics, and the taunt ability to guide the enemy to this more survivable character. An obvious choice with heavy armor, though hardly useless to light armor characters.

Rogue. This Specialty provides the classic thief skills of streetwise, lockpick, traps and bluff. Harder to hit, an emphasis on dexterity, leaping capability, make the character mobile. A few talismans provide some mystical firepower (think grenades, and pools). A natural to combine with the stealthy Scout, and/or the Doorwalking High Elf, it adds some style to other characters. Who says the thief need to be the squishiest? A Rogue Knight can handle both traps and ambushes while out on point.

Noble. Another leadership, evasive Specialty, with the skills of the court: seduction, socialize, politics and bureaucracy. So, in combat, better survivability, and some support feature. With diplomacy, the critical skills to thrive.

The seven elements. These seven allow any character to have proficiency to cast spells. It further allows Wizards to cast the most powerful spells, and at a longer range. Some teleport ability allows them to move about the battlefield. Weapon users can benefit from using spells to add elemental damage. See my discussion on magic for the feel of each element.

Is it just me, or does this read like it was written really fast?

 

[Dorateen]

Evidently, I need to apply the Fast specialty when it comes to posting updates.

 

[sser]

Good 2d is great.
Good 3d is great.

The problem in the games industry isn't graphical dimensions, it's style and vision. I long for game developers to commission real artists. Real musicians too.

Yeah but...

Good 2D art > Good 3d art

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Noble. Another leadership, evasive Specialty, with the skills of the court: seduction, socialize, politics and bureaucracy. So, in combat, better survivability, and some support feature. With diplomacy, the critical skills to thrive.

That sounds pretty neat.