Vapourware Seven Dragon Saga - Gold Box spiritual successor from SSI veterans

[m_s0]

I don't think I've read a single one of those through, but I'm glad they still seem to be at it.

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.tsi-games.com/prototype-proceeds/

The art team continues to move ahead. We have a white box version of our first environment in the prototype, and people are having fun using leap to bounce up to the tops of the lower towers. From there, they get the height advantage to shoot the Slyth and dark wizards patrolling below. We have the hooks in for dynamic lighting, but haven’t started experimenting with setting different times of day.

Lee also passed on the current user interface pieces to Sebastian, and he’s starting to overlay them onto the screen. So the blocky programmer art buttons dotting the screen should be gone, and we’ll move a step closer to having the prototype look and feel more like the combat portion of Seven Dragon Saga.

Edwin and David are exploring the different ways players can complete the game. Noisy discussions on whether to have an ‘evil’ ending, where the party switches sides, and wins one for the Dark Gods. On the one hand, it provides for more freedom of play. On the other hand, it’s not heroic, and we’re not quite sure how triumpful players would feel. If any of you would like to chime in on this, feel free to post comments on one of our social media pages.

Paul is taking another pass at the Borderlands concept, where the party can seize control of regions of the strategic map, and give them to factions they want to strengthen. The player can then convert them to Settled Lands by pacifying the area. This unlocks merchants who sell unique items, and safe resting areas. Still a lot of work to keep this mechanic fresh, and providing the proper level of reward.

— David Shelley, Lead Designer, Seven Dragon Saga

 

[Zombra]

Started a thread on the subject of the "evil ending", expect zero traction. Chime in.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

I don't necessarily need an 'evil' ending but considering that we will play the elite force of the empire I will definitely expect the ability to play as a really tough son of a bitch. I do hope they will give me the ability to treat people outside of the empire not only with hugs and kisses but that I will actually be able to execute the will of the empire with an iron fist. Its only appropriate that an elite group autonomously operating in unpacified border regions will act not just like kindhearted goodspirited adventurers but more like conquistadors or inquisitors, ready to subdue in the name of the emperor. This should lead to a number of very interesting choices for the player.

Furthermore, I wonder what that specific position as elite force entails for quests. I don't expect to go into cellars to kill some huge rats for twenty bucks on this one. If they come up with creative ideas to benefit from the setting they have chosen this really has a lot of potential but they gotta make sure that everything - meaning particularly quests and the way NPCs behave - is consistent with the particular and exposed position the player characters occupy in the world.

 

[Abelian]

I don't see the need for an evil ending and would rather see the extra time used to polish the game.

inquisitors, ready to subdue in the name of the emperor

Spoiler

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Distracted by the 'evil endings' thing made me miss at first how cool this sounds:

Paul is taking another pass at the Borderlands concept, where the party can seize control of regions of the strategic map, and give them to factions they want to strengthen. The player can then convert them to Settled Lands by pacifying the area. This unlocks merchants who sell unique items, and safe resting areas. Still a lot of work to keep this mechanic fresh, and providing the proper level of reward.

 

[Morality Games]

There's no inherent need for the narrative to go either way.

Games that support Evil playthroughs can be pretty fun but as far as consequence goes they are sort of annulled by the fact you really only make one choice: be Light-aligned or be Dark-aligned. All the choices you make after that are a just reaffirmation of your original choice, and deviating from that choice or mix and matching rarely makes thematic or narrative sense. Paragade and Renegon require a lot of headcanon.

A game that presupposes everyone person thinks of themselves as being "good" in their own way and instead seeks to create consequence by confronting them with morally challenging choices that strain their ability to continue considering themselves moral (Alpha Protocol) has a natural advantage.

But then again, a well designed game could do the latter and *also* have an evil ending anyway the same way King of Dragon Pass manages to transition more or less seamlessly through procedurally generated events.

 

[Zombra]

Mailing list update!

Hello All!
Lately the design team has been focusing on ways to imbue player made characters with personality, beyond their base stats and skills. Traditionally, most party based cRPG's either allow players to create custom characters that are little more than walking stat sheets, or they provide the player with pre made characters with rich back stories at the cost of player agency.


7DS takes a hybrid approach, by allowing players to create a party of custom characters with unique personalities which participate in the game’s narrative elements by using our goals system.


During character creation, players answer a short series of questions, like the one above, to create a personality profile for the character along with their race, class, and specialization. Based on those answers, the character gains one of 13 goals.


A character's goal awards bonus experience to that character when the player solves quests in a manner aligned with it. We also use goals to create conversations between characters. For example, a character with the Acclaim (seeking fame) goal, may chide a Compassion (helping others) focused character on how they try to help people, but always forget to trumpet the fact. The Compassion character could push back, about how being helpful is an end in itself, and worrying about what others think is stupid.


The game also tracks when events occur, and overall ratings of how the party solves issues. So, if the game recognizes that the player likes to slaughter his way out of problems, a character with the Sanctity goal (respect for all religions), might commiserate with the Compassion character on how their views are not being heard.


As the project progresses we'll be adding more depth to this system to enhance the characters personalities and provide more feedback to the player including camp events and romance options.


Folks at the office have snapped up the new official D&D cRPG, Sword Coast Legends, and ploughed a few hours into it. Nice to see more official games coming out. What do others think of it?


David Shelley -- Lead Designer

 

[SausageInYourFace]

The goals system sounds really intriguing but probably really complicated to implement. But party creation with extensive interaction between the chars could turn out great if they get it to work properly.

 

[Bubbles]

The writing in that screenshot is really sloppy, but I like the art.

 

[Morblot]

Yay, romances

 

[SausageInYourFace]

The text is just a placeholder (hence its the same in both boxes).

 

[Dorateen]

Instead of playing SCL, folks at the office should fire up a copy of Wizardry 8 to hone their skills on creating personality options for player created characters.

The goals system has always sounded fantastic to me.

 

[Zombra]

With the mention of two never-before-heard-of Goals, the list of Goals referenced to date has expanded to 9. According to the update there are 13 in all.

Acclaim (seeking fame)
Compassion (helping others)
Dominance
Greed
Honor
Sanctity (respect for all religions)
Seeker
Serenity
Thrill of Battle
___?
___?
___?
___?

Respect for all religions seems like a pretty weird Goal to me (Oh boy! I'm going to get out of bed today and go respect all religions!), but hey.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Perhaps it's more like an anti-Inquisition or anti-Theocracy thing?

 

[Dorateen]

Nobody expects the Anti-Inquisition!

 

[LESS T_T]

David Shelley talks about distinct settings in RPGs: https://www.facebook.com/TSIGames/posts/870938446337260:0

The recent release of Fallout 4, and Wasteland 2 Director’s Cut, and the re-release of Dark Sun on GOG, had me thinking on how distinctive settings can benefit or harm a game. Fallout 4 has its well established late-50s - early 60s post apocalypse vibe in excellent form. Science fiction always has the challenge of teaching the players the rules of the world, and Bethesda does a great job, by saying, “Modern world stuff, some weird science, and lots of scarcity.”

Many fantasy games take the easy route of western, Tolkien myth-stories. Designers can count on players understanding from the start that the elves are tall, nature loving, good magic users, good bow users, and probably hate the dwarves. Knights are good, goblins bad, and damsels are for saving. Add in Campbell’s hero’s journey, and the game’s structure is very approachable, if rather predictable.

Like the Fallout series, SSI shifted to post-apocalyptic visions for their first internal fantasy RPG after the gold box series: Dark Sun, Shattered Lands. The art change from Elmore inspired gold box to Brom’s brooding, more monochrome style was striking. It was still D&D, but with the twist that magic degrades the world, and everyone is trying to survive. The same sorts of races and classes were recognizable, but each had a tweak to better fit the world.

So there were new world rules to figure out, but they were an extension of D&D, not an alternate universe. This helped provide a balance between a fresh look and a need for a massive info dump on new players. Dark Sun sales were good, and the reception positive, so the change of venue and art style worked well. Perhaps TSI will try its hand at the post-apocalypse in a later game.

With 7DS, we are not using the D&D license, so will not be tied to their restrictions, nor benefit from their familiarity. For a setting, we are going with more of an international feel, more East meets West, with a modern visual style. We decided to keep with races called elves and dwarves, and they meet many of the expectations, though the dwarves take much from the Tuaregs of North Africa, and one branch of elves is more South Asian. The story line focuses on solving open quests involving quarreling factions, and world altering artifacts.

Our challenge will be for players to be comfortable building their party from races and classes both familiar and new, and then coming up to speed on their party’s abilities, and the overall rules the world works by. If a being looks ugly and primitive, is it an automatic evil creature? Can I attack townspeople, and if so, what are the repercussions? A hundred such questions will come up during the beginning of play. As designers, we must answer the questions in as subtle and natural way possible.

While it is always safest to choose a lowest common denominator setting and story, so everyone knows a grey beard is always a sign of respect, wisdom, and probably a lot of magic, it also runs the danger of being instantly forgettable. Games like Fallout 4 and Dark Sun took fresher approaches, and were successful. We intend for 7DS to also strike that balance between familiar and fresh, and are excited for you to join us for the ride. Next time we’ll look more into how quests align or clash with different settings and player expectations.

 

[CryptRat]

Trying to justify why they don't choose a totally fresh world. You use dwarves and elves because you're unable to do better, just assume it, if the game is good we'll play it anyway, but an original alien world is better, don't try and say otherwise.

 

[Sacred82]

Dark Sun

Perhaps TSI will try its hand at the post-apocalypse in a later game.

 

[Abelian]

Games like Fallout 4 Fallout and Dark Sun took fresher approaches, and were successful.

Fixed. I understand he's trying to ride the coattails of a recent release, but if he's talking about freshness, he should mention the original, not the nth iteration.
Funny enough, I had strike out the entire name, as the 4 still looked like a regular 4.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

For a setting, we are going with more of an international feel, more East meets West, with a modern visual style. We decided to keep with races called elves and dwarves, and they meet many of the expectations, though the dwarves take much from the Tuaregs of North Africa, and one branch of elves is more South Asian.

me likey, can't think of many RPGs with an Eastern feel. As a matter of fact, only Jade Empire comes to my mind right now, even though someone will undoubtetly point out some grand classic to me that I haven't played yet

 

[Comte]

I really wish that more games had been made in the Dark Sun setting.

 

[Telengard]

You use dwarves and elves because 90% of RPG players are babbling idiots who won't even look at anything that doesn't have elves (preferably drow) and dwarves, just assume it, if the game is like Forgotten Realms we'll play it anyway, but an original alien world won't be bought by anyone, don't try and say otherwise.

FTFY

 

[Moink]

me likey, can't think of many RPGs with an Eastern feel. As a matter of fact, only Jade Empire comes to my mind right now, even though someone will undoubtetly point out some grand classic to me that I haven't played yet

Does Way of the Samurai count as an RPG?

 

[mondblut]

an original alien world is better, don't try and say otherwise.

Bullshit.