Shadowrun Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut

[Morkar Left]

The main problem with Shadowrun is that this is a mediocre game with some potential. That's why people are so pissed off about it: SRR could be a great game, but it isn't and will never be.

Pissed off? I don't think the Codex was ever that pissed off at Shadowrun Returns, and certainly not now. I don't remember there being hundreds of pages of rage ala Wasteland 2 and Pillars of Eternity. It didn't get as much attention compared to the other Kickstarter RPGs, and therefore, not as high expectations.

I don't think it ever had "potential", either, if by "potential" you mean potential to be a Vault Dweller-defined "full scale RPG". HBS was never in the position to afford that.

Yeah, some people had to high expectations to begin with. I never thought that it would turn out like a full rpg, even their kickstarter never claimed this. They said it's going similar like the SNES and Genesis games with X-com tactical level combat. Basically they did exactly what they promised, except the difficulty wasn't X-Com like at all.
Overall I never regretted backing SR:R, I even bought it togetgher with Dragonfall on gog again.

I love how SRR's rather realistic inventory causes such butthurt in all those pathetic hoarders.

Not being able to distribute items between your party isn't realistic at all

 

[almondblight]

It's telling that almost none of the SRR mods I played was as linear as DMS (you couldn't even walk in and out of buildings in that one). Potential is a good word for it. They not only kneecapped more interesting design elements with some poor decisions regarding the engine, but they didn't even bother to make use of the engines potential to the same extent as amateurs working in their free time.

 

[Excidium]

SRR's rather realistic inventory

lmao

So your definition of a realistic inventory is one where your ability to carry weapons is ruled by your combat skills, where you have an arbitrary amount of slots for consumables, where items cannot be shared and travel automagically to a locker?

 

[J_C]

So, after DMS, I've just finished Dragonfall. I liked DMS, it was a nice RPG-lite, but holy shit Dragonfall was geniunly good. I liked the missions, I liked the NPCs, the story was great IMO. The game system was still more simplistic than I would like it, but I already got over that in DMS. There were some pretty good and hard choices I had to make, which i liked very much. What did you guys choose at these points:

Spoiler

Did you set the APEX AI free, or you destroyed it? It was a hard choice for me, but I set it free in the end. Mainly because i saw the movie Transcendence, where I rooted for the AI, and APEX was similar to it. Doing dirty things, but it wanted to achieve a greater good. At least this is how I saw it.

The other interesting choice was at the end, about releasing the dragon. I gave it to APEX.

 

[V_K]

I love how SRR's rather realistic inventory causes such butthurt in all those pathetic hoarders.

Not being able to distribute items between your party isn't realistic at all

That's why I said rather realistic. As in "more so than being able to carry six full sets of armor (to switch them midcombat) and a whole inventory of an average convenience store in your pockets".

 

[dryan]

So, after DMS, I've just finished Dragonfall. I liked DMS, it was a nice RPG-lite, but holy shit Dragonfall was geniunly good. I liked the missions, I liked the NPCs, the story was great IMO. The game system was still more simplistic than I would like it, but I already got over that in DMS. There were some pretty good and hard choices I had to make, which i liked very much. What did you guys choose at these points:

Spoiler

Did you set the APEX AI free, or you destroyed it? It was a hard choice for me, but I set it free in the end. Mainly because i saw the movie Transcendence, where I rooted for the AI, and APEX was similar to it. Doing dirty things, but it wanted to achieve a greater good. At least this is how I saw it.

The other interesting choice was at the end, about releasing the dragon. I gave it to APEX.

Spoiler

I set APEX free, because I was naïve enough to believe it when it told that Monica was "living" in symbiosis with it. I didn't give Feuerschwinge to APEX because I got burned once by the AI. But I set the dragon free, which apparently was a good thing, according to Aljernon's assistant and that long haired guy who shows up at the metro.

 

[Loriac]

I love how SRR's rather realistic inventory causes such butthurt in all those pathetic hoarders.

Not being able to distribute items between your party isn't realistic at all

That's why I said rather realistic. As in "more so than being able to carry six full sets of armor (to switch them midcombat) and a whole inventory of an average convenience store in your pockets".

strawman argument

 

[V_K]

I love how SRR's rather realistic inventory causes such butthurt in all those pathetic hoarders.

Not being able to distribute items between your party isn't realistic at all

That's why I said rather realistic. As in "more so than being able to carry six full sets of armor (to switch them midcombat) and a whole inventory of an average convenience store in your pockets".

strawman argument

Not really. Strawman argument would be me pointing out that it's not as much an inventory system flaw as party management one. Oh, wait, that's also true.

 

[Morkar Left]

So, after DMS, I've just finished Dragonfall. I liked DMS, it was a nice RPG-lite, but holy shit Dragonfall was geniunly good. I liked the missions, I liked the NPCs, the story was great IMO. The game system was still more simplistic than I would like it, but I already got over that in DMS. There were some pretty good and hard choices I had to make, which i liked very much. What did you guys choose at these points:

Spoiler

Did you set the APEX AI free, or you destroyed it? It was a hard choice for me, but I set it free in the end. Mainly because i saw the movie Transcendence, where I rooted for the AI, and APEX was similar to it. Doing dirty things, but it wanted to achieve a greater good. At least this is how I saw it.

The other interesting choice was at the end, about releasing the dragon. I gave it to APEX.

Spoiler

I set APEX free, because I was naïve enough to believe it when it told that Monica was "living" in symbiosis with it. I didn't give Feuerschwinge to APEX because I got burned once by the AI. But I set the dragon free, which apparently was a good thing, according to Aljernon's assistant and that long haired guy who shows up at the metro.

Spoiler

I killed APEX and set the dragon free. I didn't buy APEX story and just thought it would use every trick possible to get free. The dragon on the other hand I thought wasn't outright "evil" or selfish just completely shocked/traumatized about how the world had changed when she awoke. She was obviously some nature freak. Plus there seems to be a greater goal the dragons have to fight against and that seems to be reason the dragons exist at all and why mankind probably will need them. I guess it's about fighting these creatures from the other dimension.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

So is every mod for this game still some headache-inducing, hipster meta garbage?

 

[J_C]

So, after DMS, I've just finished Dragonfall. I liked DMS, it was a nice RPG-lite, but holy shit Dragonfall was geniunly good. I liked the missions, I liked the NPCs, the story was great IMO. The game system was still more simplistic than I would like it, but I already got over that in DMS. There were some pretty good and hard choices I had to make, which i liked very much. What did you guys choose at these points:

Spoiler

Did you set the APEX AI free, or you destroyed it? It was a hard choice for me, but I set it free in the end. Mainly because i saw the movie Transcendence, where I rooted for the AI, and APEX was similar to it. Doing dirty things, but it wanted to achieve a greater good. At least this is how I saw it.

The other interesting choice was at the end, about releasing the dragon. I gave it to APEX.

Spoiler

I set APEX free, because I was naïve enough to believe it when it told that Monica was "living" in symbiosis with it. I didn't give Feuerschwinge to APEX because I got burned once by the AI. But I set the dragon free, which apparently was a good thing, according to Aljernon's assistant and that long haired guy who shows up at the metro.

Spoiler

just completely shocked/traumatized about how the world had changed when she awoke.

Spoiler

I would have set her free in hindsight, after talking the long haired guy on the metro. But I think this "the dragon was shocked about the world" wasn't made clear before, and so I just thought the dragon was an evil lizard.

 

[Morkar Left]

So, after DMS, I've just finished Dragonfall. I liked DMS, it was a nice RPG-lite, but holy shit Dragonfall was geniunly good. I liked the missions, I liked the NPCs, the story was great IMO. The game system was still more simplistic than I would like it, but I already got over that in DMS. There were some pretty good and hard choices I had to make, which i liked very much. What did you guys choose at these points:

Spoiler

Did you set the APEX AI free, or you destroyed it? It was a hard choice for me, but I set it free in the end. Mainly because i saw the movie Transcendence, where I rooted for the AI, and APEX was similar to it. Doing dirty things, but it wanted to achieve a greater good. At least this is how I saw it.

The other interesting choice was at the end, about releasing the dragon. I gave it to APEX.

Spoiler

I set APEX free, because I was naïve enough to believe it when it told that Monica was "living" in symbiosis with it. I didn't give Feuerschwinge to APEX because I got burned once by the AI. But I set the dragon free, which apparently was a good thing, according to Aljernon's assistant and that long haired guy who shows up at the metro.

Spoiler

just completely shocked/traumatized about how the world had changed when she awoke.

Spoiler

I would have set her free in hindsight, after talking the long haired guy on the metro. But I think this "the dragon was shocked about the world" wasn't made clear before, and so I just thought the dragon was an evil lizard.

Spoiler

Dunno, In the conversation I had with her it was recognizable, maybe dependent on dialogue choices/skills? It was rather tough for me to decide if she was just acting or really more reasonable than everybody thought. Thinkingthat all other dragons are actually reasonable and this whole dragons are here to save the world thing convinced me. But not being entirely sure was some of the awesome things in Dragonfall and made the campaign outstanding compared to other rpgs. With APEX it was the same or even more questionable.

 

[Spectacle]

I love how SRR's rather realistic inventory causes such butthurt in all those pathetic hoarders.

Not being able to distribute items between your party isn't realistic at all

Yes it is. Those items are the personal property of the runners who have them, and they've brought them to use themselves, not to share. You can hand out extra grenades etc to the team from the stash if you want them to have something extra.

 

[tuluse]

I love how SRR's rather realistic inventory causes such butthurt in all those pathetic hoarders.

Not being able to distribute items between your party isn't realistic at all

Yes it is. Those items are the personal property of the runners who have them, and they've brought them to use themselves, not to share. You can hand out extra grenades etc to the team from the stash if you want them to have something extra.

You can't hand a gun to another runner

 

[J_C]

I love how SRR's rather realistic inventory causes such butthurt in all those pathetic hoarders.

Not being able to distribute items between your party isn't realistic at all

Yes it is. Those items are the personal property of the runners who have them, and they've brought them to use themselves, not to share. You can hand out extra grenades etc to the team from the stash if you want them to have something extra.

You can't hand a gun to another runner

And this really bothered me. I bought a better shotgun to Eiger on my hard earned money, and she just said fuck you, I'm not using it. Same with armors.

 

[Galdred]

You can't hand a gun to another runner

It's for realism reasons : the gun is gene locked to a single user. That also explains why you never get to salvage anything out of slain opponents.

 

[Excidium]

The only reason is that the developers were on a tight budget and making a game for casual players

 

[V_K]

I love how SRR's rather realistic inventory causes such butthurt in all those pathetic hoarders.

Not being able to distribute items between your party isn't realistic at all

Yes it is. Those items are the personal property of the runners who have them, and they've brought them to use themselves, not to share. You can hand out extra grenades etc to the team from the stash if you want them to have something extra.

You can't hand a gun to another runner

TBH, it made certain sense in DMS, where all your runners were hired guns.

 

[Excidium]

You can't hand a gun to another runner

TBH, it made certain sense in DMS, where all your runners were hired guns.

No it didn't make a lick of sense, quit rationalizing the simplistic systems of the game.

 

[eremita]

Where's mah fuckinn Android version?! I finished DMS and there's still no information on Dragonfall for Android/iOS...

 

[Kem0sabe]

Where's mah fuckinn Android version?! I finished DMS and there's still no information on Dragonfall for Android/iOS...

Would actually buy it again for android.

 

[eremita]

Where's mah fuckinn Android version?! I finished DMS and there's still no information on Dragonfall for Android/iOS...

Would actually buy it again for android.

Well, I'm a little bit afraid they won't do it at all; last piece of information is from march...

 

[Stefan Vujovic]

The only reason is that the developers were on a tight budget and making a game for casual players

Yeah, 2mil $, totally tight budget, especially for mobile game developer... More like overrated/overpaid game developer who got away with retarded fan nostalgia.

 

[thesheeep]

TBH, it made certain sense in DMS, where all your runners were hired guns.

No it didn't make a lick of sense, quit rationalizing the simplistic systems of the game.

Actually, Excidium is right here.
This part of SRR does not make any sense, no need defending it. Yes, there might be cases like a street samurai never parting with his katana, no matter what you offer him, but in general, you should be able to equip other characters. Especially in the setting of Shadowrun, where it is normal that a runner demand money for his equipment (or directly demands equipment).

This is simply a design flaw in SRR. One that is probably based on a tight budget, and a focus of that budget on more important (in the minds of the designers) things.
If you really think 2mil is a lot for a team that needs to pay normal developer wages, you have no clue about game development costs. It would be a high budget for a team where everyone works to make the project their dream come true (and then start making money when the project starts selling, if at all) and is happy living off a minimum wage until then. But this is certainly not the case for a team of 20 people or so.

 

[Zetor]

You can't hand a gun to another runner

It's for realism reasons : the gun is gene locked to a single user. That also explains why you never get to salvage anything out of slain opponents.

This is actually true for enemies -- in p&p SR you never 'loot' anything from enemies except key items / credsticks / consumables, since all weapons are gene-locked and cyberware is a huge hassle to cut out, carry, and take to a shadow doc to sell for a tiny fraction of its original price. However, you SHOULD be able to trade items between characters and have a persistent inventory, and this is pretty much a limitation of their own engine at this point*.

Maybe they'll address it in the next xpac / sequel (the way inventory works seems to be the #1 complaint overall), but I'm not too hopeful...

* I know that it's possible to work around it in a mod, but it takes a shitload of triggers for each item on each map. Yeah no.