KickStarter Shenmue 3

[abnaxus]

 

[Abu Antar]

There's a lot of time left. If you pledged to the Kickstarter campaign, you will most likely follow news about the game and learn about Sony's involvement. Dislike it? Pull your pledge. I don't really care as long as I know that a publisher is involved before the actual campaign has ended. Microsoft holds the Shadowrun rights. Didn't stop me from backing two of HBS's games.

 

[Malpercio]

Meh, I guess I'll have to play Shenmue 2 one of these days, then.

 

[DawnrazorDCLXVI]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ysnet/shenmue-3

BOOM!

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

Somebody fill me in quickly what this Shenmue series is all about. Thanks.

Despite being a 1999 product, it has the whole lotta glory of nowadays gaming like avesum QTE minigames and cutscene-focused gameplay.

Best things about Shenmue are its combat parts which are shameless Virtua Fighter rip offs.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

So it's all just nostalgia. Right now nearly $3 million worth of nostalgia. And kawaii waifus. Got it, thanks.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

Why nostalgia? Now casual crowd LOVES such things. Shenmue fits present times much better than late 90's.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Meh, it's fine if you need a bigger budget than KS can realistically provide, and have a publisher or investors lined up to provide more funding if you reach your goal. But you need to be upfront about this shit. It needs to be in your pitch video and FAQ. Kingdom Come: Deliverance did exactly this, and nobody complained. D:OS had a KS to make an already funded game better, and nobody complained. It's all about honesty and transparency.

Both Igarashi and Suzuki failed to clearly inform their backers what they were actually doing, presumably in order to maximize the funding. It is rather scummy, and I'm certainly not supporting any of them. I don't really begrudge the poor console peasants who are throwing money at Shenmue 3 after waiting for it for over a decade, though.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Wait, there are waifus? Now, I'm interested.

 

[CyberP]

I don't know what to think about the current habit of using kickstarter to leverage publisher support or gain attention of corporations. It seems so secretive, sketchy, dishonest. That's probably not the word for it. But you certainly don't see information on the hidden investors on the Bloodstained Kickstarter. and Sony isn't mentioned AT ALL on the Shenmue III Kickstarter.

Absolutely. As I said in the E3 tread when it was annouced, wouldn't be surprised if Sony dumped shit loads of cash indirectly into the Kickstarter. Smash all records, mass publicity, much returns.

I wouldn't put it past other devs/pubs having done this either though.

 

[pippin]

I don't know what to think about the current habit of using kickstarter to leverage publisher support or gain attention of corporations. It seems so secretive, sketchy, dishonest. That's probably not the word for it. But you certainly don't see information on the hidden investors on the Bloodstained Kickstarter. and Sony isn't mentioned AT ALL on the Shenmue III Kickstarter.

Absolutely. As I said in the E3 tread when it was annouced, wouldn't be surprised if Sony dumped shit loads of cash indirectly into the Kickstarter. Smash all records, mass publicity, much returns.

I wouldn't put it past other devs/pubs having done this either though.

This is what I meant when I said the kickstarter was a PR move. Weebs begging for the game + pr tool to make believe it's "their game": 100% positive reviews (not that it would be any different if they followed a regular dev process).

 

[abnaxus]

Somebody fill me in quickly what this Shenmue series is all about. Thanks.

A tree.

 

[A user named cat]

What I want to know is what arcade games will be playable in game.

No kidding. I remember in S1 you were supposed to get a job driving a forklift or something, but I'd just go to the arcade every day to play Hang-On and darts until curfew Life simulator.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Kickstarter provides 5M, Sony will provide the other 145M needed. Actually, I wonder if they can make it on a TW3 budget of 40M or so.

 

[abnaxus]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...d-record-for-quickest-video-game-crowdfunding

 

[CyberP]

The wheels are in motion. The grand scheme is well underway. It's quite simple really. Who is even going to attempt to trace the "alleged" corruption back to the source?

 

[Kz3r0]

No kidding. I remember in S1 you were supposed to get a job driving a forklift or something, but I'd just go to the arcade every day to play Hang-On and darts until curfew Life simulator.

You must really play the second, lotsa more when you find the arcade.

Kickstarter provides 5M, Sony will provide the other 145M needed. Actually, I wonder if they can make it on a TW3 budget of 40M or so.

Shenmue has alaways been insanely expensive, I can't blame Sony for using Kickstarter, if done properly is a hundred millions dollar game, marketing excluded.

 

[taxalot]

Shenmue is one occurance that if my money went straight to the Taliban I would not even care at all.

 

[abnaxus]

When Shenmue 3 launched on Kickstarter yesterday, fans freaked out, thrilled that the game they’d wanted for more than 10 years could finally happen.

As the dust settled, though, many started to question the project’s target budget. The Kickstarter page lists a goal of $2 million, which the campaign has already passed. But Shenmue 1 and 2 were famously expensive games to make — some of the most expensive of their time. In a past interview with Polygon, director Yu Suzuki called Shenmue 1 a "company project" for Sega, meaning that his bosses essentially gave him a blank check to create something that would help make the Dreamcast stand out. During a Game Developers Conference panel in 2011, Suzuki pegged its budget in retrospect at $47 million.

So the question became, how could Suzuki make a third installment for a budget less than 20 times that of the original — or even less accounting for inflation? Not that it’s an entirely fair question, because Suzuki never said there wasn’t non-Kickstarter funding backing him up. But by declining to mention specifics about external funding, he left a lot unclear about how substantial the game will be. And by presenting the game as a proper sequel, he left questions open that he could be selling a game that may be smaller in scope than he’s leading people to believe.

All of which is to say, we don’t know. And in an interview with Polygon at E3 yesterday, Suzuki clarified some of the concerns, and left others intentionally open.

"The important thing for Shenmue 3 is to bring back those fond memories that everybody had of 1 and 2."

To start, Suzuki confirmed that his company Ys Net has lined up non-Kickstarter funding sources, but he wouldn’t say who they are or how much they are providing. Though Sony mentioned earlier in the day that it would help Ys Net with development, Suzuki wouldn’t speak to specifics of that partnership or even confirm Sony’s involvement. There’s not a lot of precedent for a team to reveal where non-Kickstarter funding comes from — Republique and Bloodstained both said they have outside funding without naming names or saying how much. Yet it feels like a bigger deal here because of the pitched scope of the game, and it leaves questions open about the the game’s scale.

To that point, Suzuki said he conceptualized the game in such a way that it’s scalable to different budgets. At the lower end of the spectrum, the game will focus more on its story, and at the upper end it will incorporate more open world elements. There will also be Kickstarter stretch goals along the way pointing to more specific features. And Suzuki said he will be bringing in various side activities and minigames similar to what players saw in Shenmue 2.

"The important thing for Shenmue 3 is to bring back those fond memories that everybody had of 1 and 2, like for example the setting of 1986 Yokosuka — bringing back those memories and the nostalgic feel," he said.

Suzuki further pointed out that he is using Unreal Engine 4 and will be making the game for PlayStation 4 and PC, so things that were expensive to make in the old days back before much of the technology had been invented aren’t as expensive any more. Making an open world game, for instance, used to be unique, and now many franchises have moved in that direction, making it easier to follow in their footsteps. Though Suzuki said that despite the evolution of open world game design since Shenmue 1 and 2 shipped, he doesn’t have any plans to alter the way Shenmue 3 will play to keep up with the times, aiming for a feel similar to the original games.

Asked if he expects the game’s final budget to be comparable to those of previous Shenmue games, Suzuki said he hopes it will be. Without knowing the amount of investment put in outside of Kickstarter, it’s hard to know how realistic that may be. But as of this writing on the Kickstarter campaign’s second day, it has almost crossed the $3 million mark, so Suzuki may be on his way.

http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/17/8795017/shenmue-on-a-budget

 

[gromit]

dissection of a flawed cult classic

.@taxalot i demand an apology for you triggering @Tehdagah

But in all seriousness: there is a difference between an old master -- as much as you can be without being Miyamoto -- banking his entire career and good name on a costly experiment... and what I'm assuming troubles you so much, the thought of some newbie scene kid treading and/or blundering about on, the ground he (and others) established.

The comparison is a bit lofty to say the least, but the same thing underlies how Picasso first got really good at capturing form, before he went off the rails with his own treatment -- compared to the stereotypical art-slacker who leans on a gift for mimicking any one of his later styles.

Plenty of people blame some nasty design trends on the game. That's "fair" in that despite the (relatively-and-in-context) mixed critical reception, and the general love-or-hate status among players, the game was and is popular with developers... or its ideas, at least.

But why should Yu Suzuki shoulder the blame, because he "established" some of those things?
You do not "establish" things. Things "get established." Blame the cargo cultists.

They not only can't come up with a better method for play-in-cutscenes since the last millenium -- the exceptions have either avoided or wholly embraced the "problem" -- but for too long it was the "in thing" to cram in QTE to "fix" cramming in unnecessary cutscenes. Now the "revolutionary" thing is to ape Shenmue II Disc 3.

The only thing Suzuki is really guilty of, is not reigning in the scope of the project (as a whole.) The first game came as close as anything I've seen, at pulling off the structural equivalent of the first chapter of a novel. It's also sporting one of the slickest fighting systems to ever grace an "action" RPG, and you barely use it outside of self-inflicted tutorials.

Shenmue II seemed to be on the right track, with more story beats, more solutions to the open goals, better use of better-balanced maps, and a faster pace (if you wanted.) It was still a slow burn, but things were heating up... problem being I was playing the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th levels of a really, really long game.

Compressing the story into fewer beats, or having more in one place, would have gotten us to "the goods" already. It was there, in the engine, with a series of fantastic introductions already implemented... waiting for a moment that never came.

I haven't been biting my nails over the cliffhanger in a self-aware cliche / homage -- spoiler alert, Hero's Journey, oriental magic, kung fu, father-avenging -- but DAMN do I want my fully-scheduled open-map Virtua Fighter with in-game rewards for faithful role-playing. I've wanted it since Sierra adventures and River City Ransom, in that little-kid cram-every-game-together kind of way, but that is an idea that can work.

 

[DawnrazorDCLXVI]

...cliches about martial arts abound, and abound also in how it is a tale of revenge, a cycle that never ends. Add also a treasure hunt in there. Still, while not being top tier in quality, the story targets a few areas that were seldomly addressed by games before : it is set in the 1980s in Japan and China

Come now. Is it really that cliche if it happened in Japan and China?

 

[DawnrazorDCLXVI]

I pretty much agree with taxalot's take on the Shenmue series.
At the time Shenmue came out, it was really a revolutionary game.

One of the questions I have in my head is whether or not Shenmue 3 will be relevant when it comes out.

I think this will depend on the immersiveness of the storytelling.

 

[DawnrazorDCLXVI]

dissection of a flawed cult classic

.@taxalot i demand an apology for you triggering @Tehdagah

But in all seriousness: there is a difference between an old master -- as much as you can be without being Miyamoto -- banking his entire career and good name on a costly experiment... and what I'm assuming troubles you so much, the thought of some newbie scene kid treading and/or blundering about on, the ground he (and others) established.

The comparison is a bit lofty to say the least, but the same thing underlies how Picasso first got really good at capturing form, before he went off the rails with his own treatment -- compared to the stereotypical art-slacker who leans on a gift for mimicking any one of his later styles.

Plenty of people blame some nasty design trends on the game. That's "fair" in that despite the (relatively-and-in-context) mixed critical reception, and the general love-or-hate status among players, the game was and is popular with developers... or its ideas, at least.

But why should Yu Suzuki shoulder the blame, because he "established" some of those things?
You do not "establish" things. Things "get established." Blame the cargo cultists.

They not only can't come up with a better method for play-in-cutscenes since the last millenium -- the exceptions have either avoided or wholly embraced the "problem" -- but for too long it was the "in thing" to cram in QTE to "fix" cramming in unnecessary cutscenes. Now the "revolutionary" thing is to ape Shenmue II Disc 3.

The only thing Suzuki is really guilty of, is not reigning in the scope of the project (as a whole.) The first game came as close as anything I've seen, at pulling off the structural equivalent of the first chapter of a novel. It's also sporting one of the slickest fighting systems to ever grace an "action" RPG, and you barely use it outside of self-inflicted tutorials.

Shenmue II seemed to be on the right track, with more story beats, more solutions to the open goals, better use of better-balanced maps, and a faster pace (if you wanted.) It was still a slow burn, but things were heating up... problem being I was playing the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th levels of a really, really long game.

Compressing the story into fewer beats, or having more in one place, would have gotten us to "the goods" already. It was there, in the engine, with a series of fantastic introductions already implemented... waiting for a moment that never came.

I haven't been biting my nails over the cliffhanger in a self-aware cliche / homage -- spoiler alert, Hero's Journey, oriental magic, kung fu, father-avenging -- but DAMN do I want my fully-scheduled open-map Virtua Fighter with in-game rewards for faithful role-playing. I've wanted it since Sierra adventures and River City Ransom, in that little-kid cram-every-game-together kind of way, but that is an idea that can work.

This is about the quintessential reason I want to brofist people. Thanks for the description, also, Taxalot.

 

[abnaxus]

During the interview, Famitsu asked what prompted Yu Suzuki to begin the development of Shenmue III, now.

“I’ve been trying to find a way to make a sequel happen for a very long time. There really isn’t much more to it,” says Suzuki.

Next, they ask about their target amount of funds from Kickstarter (which, by the way, is currently over $2.9 million as of this article).

“200 million yen (around $2 million) for starters,” responds Suzuki. “That said, 200 million yen is the minimum required amount in order to make the game. If we happen to collect more funds, then we’ll add more things that we’ve been wanting to add to it.”

Famitsu then ask what kind of open world one can expect to see in Shenmue III.

“Everyone must be thinking that we’ll expand the open world more, but I’ve been deeply questioning whether or not to do that instead,” says Suzuki. “If we were to have 100 characters and split the budget among them, we’d be limited in terms of what we could do with each one; however, if we were to split that budget among just 10 characters, we could do a lot more with them.”

He continues, “For example, we could set a parameter for Ling Shen Hua, then we could have it change her attitude depending on the conversations, or the way one proceeds through quests. Of course, that doesn’t mean that it won’t be an open world game. A stretch goal on Kickstarter will determine the expansion of the city.”

Finally, Yu Suzuki shared more on ideas he has for Shenmure III’s QTE (Quick Time Event) system.

“I’d like to present a new QTE. Something elaborate, yet easily playable by just about anyone,” says Suzuki. “Instead of simply winning by pressing buttons in a timely manner, I’d like to make something that will have people win fights by making correct judgements.”

Shenmue III is in development for PC and PlayStation 4. Yu Suzuki also says that he’s been thinking of a way to add the forklift mini-game into Shenmue III.

http://www.siliconera.com/2015/06/17/yu-suzuki-wants-to-introduce-a-new-qte-system-for-shenmue-3/

 

[Perkel]

For the people wonderin' what is Shenmue, i think this is what encapsulates Shenmue:

Fell asleep last night playing shenmue 2 on the dreamcast. Game looks great in widescreen which I found very odd since I'm only hooked up to composite.

So in the game as I was leaving my apartment to go to work the landlord asks me for money, I told him I'd get him later. So I continue on to work and make 60$, I decide to walk back to pay my debts but find a virtua fighters toy machine and spend 20$. Walk a bit further and find some dude running plinko boards and end up blowing the other 40$. Now I'm broke, fucking shenmue man.

Shenmue = life