KickStarter Shroud of the Avatar - Lord British's Not-Ultima Online 2

[Zep Zepo]

You got a chipon your shoulder? Why do you hate pvpers?

I've always played in PvP MMO's, but I"m happy to see this game didn't just go on the bandwagon and add pvp everywhere. I don't think I'd have any trouble with your post if it weren't fo your strange hatred for open world pvp (or as you call it "raping").

Because casuals don't like getting PVP raped while they are trying to craft Unicorns?

Zep--

 

[belowmecoldhands]

You got a chipon your shoulder? Why do you hate pvpers?

I've always played in PvP MMO's, but I"m happy to see this game didn't just go on the bandwagon and add pvp everywhere. I don't think I'd have any trouble with your post if it weren't fo your strange hatred for open world pvp (or as you call it "raping").

Because casuals don't like getting PVP raped while they are trying to craft Unicorns?

Zep--

I'ts not great mystery why FFA PvP in open world is not wanted (at all) by 99% of the players. The trick isn't how to completely eliminate griefing or how many hard restrictions to add, but how to reduce it to a level where it's manageable via a player-run law system. And how to heal the wounds and make the players cooperate on their own.

Me and that other poster are differnt. He/she thinks it can't work. It's just "raping" simulator. Me, I think it can work. I've seen the good and bad of players in FFA PvP ppen world. It's the good which we can use to make it work.

One of the things which makes me think it can work is a quote or a phrase or a proverb which I saw some time ago. It goes like this "If you have a stake in the community then you're more likely to do the right thing." If a griefer is a active part of the community and partially relies on it, they're more likely to avoid their worst desires in favor of a better outcome.

So community and making everybody a part of everybody else is the key I think.

If a way can be found to strengthen the player-run law systems without too many hard rules built-in, that'd be an affective damper on griefing. But it still doesn't get at the heart of why/how griefers grief. No hard rules do. Which is why I think community involvement and (invisibly) making players work together can help.

Regardless, real stories and real emotions which emerge in the ffa open world are going to happen. Nothing can be done to stop all negative things. It's a balance between freedom and abuse of freedom. I don't think there's a perfect answer; when is there? Some MMO's are just going to have more fredom than others and the capacity to create more extreme negatives/positives.

 

[Zep Zepo]

You got a chipon your shoulder? Why do you hate pvpers?

I've always played in PvP MMO's, but I"m happy to see this game didn't just go on the bandwagon and add pvp everywhere. I don't think I'd have any trouble with your post if it weren't fo your strange hatred for open world pvp (or as you call it "raping").

Because casuals don't like getting PVP raped while they are trying to craft Unicorns?

Zep--

I'ts not great mystery why FFA PvP in open world is not wanted (at all) by 99% of the players. The trick isn't how to completely eliminate griefing or how many hard restrictions to add, but how to reduce it to a level where it's manageable via a player-run law system. And how to heal the wounds and make the players cooperate on their own.

Me and that other poster are differnt. He/she thinks it can't work. It's just "raping" simulator. Me, I think it can work. I've seen the good and bad of players in FFA PvP ppen world. It's the good which we can use to make it work.

One of the things which makes me think it can work is a quote or a phrase or a proverb which I saw some time ago. It goes like this "If you have a stake in the community then you're more likely to do the right thing." If a griefer is a active part of the community and partially relies on it, they're more likely to avoid their worst desires in favor of a better outcome.

So community and making everybody a part of everybody else is the key I think.

Well I took part in the first rape simulator that was Ultima Online. Yeah...Casuals didn't like it.

"I'm just trying to chop some trees to make some axes to sell and this jackhole just walks up and kills me while my back is turned and i'm chopping, and then LOOTS ALL MY WORK".

Casuals can't separate their minds from single player to Open PVP.

Zep--

 

[belowmecoldhands]

I'm just glad to see Shroud of the Avatar veer away from this can of worms. Wise move.

But there're many other issues. The biggest one is the fact this is sandboxxy. Can they make the sandbox work? What about players losing longterm direction because they're used to quest-driven games? The biggest MMORPGs are themeparks, not sandboxes. Minecraft servers and farmville and freerealms give a nod to sandboxes, but how confident is the nod?

Can they make the PvE fun AND challenging?

Given teh Ultimas and Ultima Online were so innovative for their time--minus the pvp messup in UO--one has to have great hope. Yet Richard Garriot and many of the backers are probably old school. How relevant are they today?

Note: UO had a lot of cool features back then. Death penalty wasn't nearly as bad as EQ (despite UO being older) and it gave you options. There was instant travel via mark/recall. Boats and treasure hunting. Spawned quests. Message boards. Buildable houses. Player-owned vendors. Cartography. Mini-map radar. Skill-based. Etc. It was a sanbox b4 many players even knew what that was. It took years for other games to approach the scale of the features UO had (SWG hired Raph; doesn't count).

 

[Zep Zepo]

SotA... It's not sandboxy though. It's a retarded pretend real estate (and other stupid RMT gimmicks) simulator.

Zep--

 

[Zep Zepo]

Dude...it can't work...casuals and grief-ers cannot into the same game. UO proved this... In 1997. All it was was tears.

Zep--

 

[Aenra]

Zep Zepo
Oversimplifying is the resort of fools. One liners, blind accusations and over-generalised statements mass blanketting tens of thousands into a single uniform category easy for the unintelligent to digest and eschew fall down to just that. Oversimplifying. Now it might be that unlike what this forum's members are supposed to be, the reality is such that said one liners work wonders for the resident hairy apes to feel not only better about themselves, but also closer to one another; ironically succumbing to the very norm they strive so hard to abstain from. That of reforming themselves to being yet another hive of absent individuality and pronounced collective.

Before next mentioning "unicorns" or any other such innuendo thereof, you might wish to consider the above a touch further. Unless it is your goal to appear as an idiot to as many as singularly possible. You would not be alone in that either ^^

belowmecoldhands
It is not hate to be honest. Utter disappointment more like, sprinkled with just a touch of bitterness

I find it sad, very sad, that all things considered and all responsibilities through with, there are so many peers of mine that their day being over have no issue, fail to even grasp this, to go into a virtual world only so as to undergo the consequences of those very same social norms they'd had to wade through all said day long. One would have thought that after decades of technological availability and centuries of escapism prior to that through other, higher forms of entertainment, they would have grasped the futility of forgoing escapism for the simulating of all the things that are wrong with life as we've come to perceive it. In the sense of the everyday. I find it even sadder when said practice (which is your right by the way and best of luck, thanks for all the fish), affects everyone else as well. To explain further;
Your needing even more "competing", even more "me against him, her, them", even more "it's you or me", even more "isn't shit unfair", even more "if it's red it's dead" is a preference. For you. A sad one for me, as it entails a number of things conceptualising-wise, but your preference nonetheless. And yes, you do of course have every right to it. It does become an issue however when it is apropo forced on me. And it is.

They call it "balance". It means one thing in RPGs, it means quite another in MMORPGs. And in MMORPGs, balance is merely the after-effect of PvP being included as an equal counterpart. I have to find it prevalent in everything i do, just because of you. Get me now?

(and since i am unaware of the extent of your experience, by balance we do not signify 'x' versus 'y' skill's damage, by balancing we signify the cutting, forgoing and rearranging of potential in any a mechanic in such a way so as for an equal scaling of the numbers to be -theoretically- possible. Because of all the wonders we could do, the sad fact is that when we are forced to accept 'balance', we are forced to dictate "unifying", "corresponding", "similar". What to many, ultimately (ie in effect, ingame) boils down to down-sizing. And that i do take issue with. Even when i could forgive the mentality behind it, which frankly, i sometimes cannot. Even though yes, i should)

 

[belowmecoldhands]

Aenra, I'm not forcing it on you. The game forces it on you. But you don't have to play that game. I don't play games I don't like, nor should you. Sometimes I'll like parts of a game, but that doesn't justify me forcing that game to throw out the parts I don't. The only time parts should be thrown out are when the community which supports that game are in agreement.

Also I want to remind you who in their right minds wants combat IRL? I do not want to fight IRL. Whether it's war or disaster or murder or deceit, none of them are wanted IRL. But in a game? Sure, why not. In fact, most movie plots utilize such things, ugly things, of the most intense and trying sort, but usually with some uplifting end when the mayhem is finished. The reason these things work in movies or games or books is because they're no real. We can walk away from a book/game/movie we don't like. A murder in a book is not a murder IRL. This gives us control. The control allows us to do things we could never do in real life. It's an experiment. This is why it's so entertaining. It's like defying gravity or something, if only in your imagination.

In all othe regards, I respect your thoughts. I esp like your "thanks for all the fish."

I understand where you're coming from and get why you don't want it. I'm also very happy this won't be in Shroud of the Avatar, but even that aside, there're probably many monsters yet to slay in tis development.

'S easy to slay known monsters, but fresh ones can surprise you. And succeeding as an MMO today is harder than ever, given the market is possibly saturated or at least highly competitive as a result of a large array of offerings.

IMHO, the biggest wall to climb is how to pull entrenched players from their game? If someone has been playing their mmo for years and loves it and is highly critical of new ones, how do you impel them to jump ship and join your mmo? It's easy to get someone to play a clone for 5 minutes or maybe a week or two, but it's another to keep them playing.

That's why I think the big MMo's with their entrenched players have to kill themselves first by getting too old. Once the deed is done, newer MMO's will have a better chance to fruit. But this is only an opinion.

 

[Metro]

Bro, this game has no future.

 

[Aenra]

Metro hope dies last you cretin, how dare you ^^

Anyway, if this is not an indication, i know not what is, so i will go full pre-emptive and post this myself, lol:

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?p=51771

Additionally, as we enter the last half of 2015, and major milestones such as Alpha and Beta are looming closer on the horizon, we will be announcing a series of expiration events regarding pledges, rewards, and related services. The first expiration event coincides with the end of our 10% Summer Bonus promotion at Midnight CST, August 31, 2015. These expirations include:

• Select Pledges (including their specific rewards):
  • $220 Patron Pledge
  • $375 Navigator Pledge
  • $450 Developer Pledge
• Signed physical goods (Patron pledge and above)
• Home and basement stacking (Ancestor pledge and above)
• Secondary lots (Lord pledge and above)

Please know that these expirations DO NOT affect any backers that already have these rewards. If you already got ’em, then you get to keep ’em! These expirations only affect new backers, or existing backers that have not upgraded to the specified pledge tiers before the expiration date.

Prefaced with a HUUUGE time is running out gif !!! Buy them now, keep everything! 9.99 folks...
Also, because sadism can have no true limits, De Sade i love you, do note that unlike ANY, any other P2W F2P title out there, Shroud of the Avatar does a one-to-one kwa to ingame credit conversion! Yessiree, we do not confuse you like other companies do, where one buck can equal 100 or 150 store credits, no sir! In Portalarium one buck is ONE store credit!*! Everything for our customers!

*terms and conditions apply

 

[Metro]

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

So is there nothing that would cause me to remember UO fondly? Is it really all that shitty?

 

[Zep Zepo]

So is there nothing that would cause me to remember UO fondly? Is it really all that shitty?

The BETA period before the release was the best time ever. It was the wild west. Guilds and players policed themselves. There was no care-bear shit. I actually won the final BETA contest (collecting all the named stones) and won the signed Collectors box, to their heartbreak, because I was in a guild called "The Fuckheads", which they later disallowed the name once the game went live. I think I played for the one free month code I got for winning the box...and that was it. It just got too care bear once it went live.

Zep--

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

So is there nothing that would cause me to remember UO fondly? Is it really all that shitty?

The BETA period before the release was the best time ever. It was the wild west. Guilds and players policed themselves. There was no care-bear shit. I actually won the final BETA contest (collecting all the named stones) and won the signed Collectors box, to their heartbreak, because I was in a guild called "The Fuckheads", which they later disallowed the name once the game went live. I think I played for the one free month code I got for winning the box...and that was it. It just got too care bear once it went live.

Zep--

Early days of UO, pre-patch it was called, were the very best MMO times IMO. Sad to hear.

 

[Zep Zepo]

So is there nothing that would cause me to remember UO fondly? Is it really all that shitty?

The BETA period before the release was the best time ever. It was the wild west. Guilds and players policed themselves. There was no care-bear shit. I actually won the final BETA contest (collecting all the named stones) and won the signed Collectors box, to their heartbreak, because I was in a guild called "The Fuckheads", which they later disallowed the name once the game went live. I think I played for the one free month code I got for winning the box...and that was it. It just got too care bear once it went live.

Zep--

Early days of UO, pre-patch it was called, were the very best MMO times IMO. Sad to hear.

It's funny because "The Fuckheads" were champions of the single player and police of the PKers.

They used to use our name as you can't trust a "Fuckhead", but we were really PK Unfriendly and would help whoever asked.

Zep--

 

[Zep Zepo]

Also...was it Raph or Starr who would say DUPING IS IMPOSSIBLE!!! YOUR BUG REPORT IS WRONG AND IGNORED!

While we sat on the Britania bridge duping helmets for anyone who came across the bridge and would take a free helmet.

Denial is just not a river in Eygpt...

Zep--

 

[Keldryn]

I fondly remember raising my Resist Magic skill by casting the Fire Field spell into the area right next to a moongate and standing in it. This was right after the dev team made the areas just outside moongates into zones where players couldn't take damage, as PKers would wait a short distance from moongates and blast anyone who came through. I'm prety sure this was fixed within a day.

There was something thrilling about the game back then. It was really fucking annoying to get PKed, but there was a sense of accomplishment when you were able to get away -- or even better, to kill that fucking PK bastard before he killed you. The dungeon entrances were usually far more dangerous than the dungeons themselves, as groups of a dozen or so PKs would hang around the entrance and ambush anyone trying to enter the dungeon. But if you got inside the dungeon, you were generally fairly safe. So we would wait around a short distance from the dungeon until there were about 30 or 40 of us, then we'd rush the dungeon entrance, knowing that the PKs wouldn't be able to get ALL of us.

WoW is a snorefest compared to UO c. late 1997.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Guild I was in LARPed being Vampires, called the Coven or some shit like that. We had a castle and basically our own peninsula. Once you were established hunting PKs was lots of fun. I could cut gankers down in a stun lock with my Emminent Katana of Vanquishing or whatever it was.

We would spend hours training skills to GM on the roof of our castle in pairs. Mage with martial person. He'd cast fields, and summon elementals and heal us while we trained resistances and various weapons. Mage friend of mine had his instakill routine DOWN. Had a wicked halberd and macros set, he could poison ele, paralyze and some lightning spell for 1/2 damage and his halberd strike would do the rest. Dead in 1.5-2 seconds. We each had routines to take people out very quickly when necessary. High end katanas were practically stun lock kill in 3-5 seconds if paralyzed.

The world was perilous as fuck and a lot of fun to lord over once you got your shit together. we used to love the period between 1:30AM eastern and 4:00 eastern. Every night there would be a time warp when they did backups. Whatever happened, time was rewound by a couple hours after backups of the shard completed. Everyone would put on all their most valuable shit and it would be pandemonium.

 

[Zep Zepo]

I can't remember the name now...but it was blue and like a paralysis field or something? Easiest thing to train to 100 with no damage. Just cast it and walk back and forth.

Zep--

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Yes paralysis field. It didn't proc as quickly as harm fields or getting whacked by air elementals. We would train wearing only shitty gauntlets to train defense, evasion, tactics, power while holding a butter knife to train blades... very little damage to ele so it would last and eventually time out after 5 minutes. lots of skill procs fighting two air elementals at a time with shit gear or each-other for two martial types, with the odd casting for health or eles.

Fuck me makes me want to play UO.

 

[Aildrik]

I had a friend who would trap chests and place them outside town, and just wait for curious fools to wander by and blow themselves up looking inside. This was eventually patched somehow; I think the person who trapped the chest took a reputation hit or something. It was just one of the many steps taken over time to punish PK behavior.

To me, UO was at its very best in its 'wild west' form shortly after release. Origin/EA destroyed it over time by coddling players and making PKing more difficult and eventually doing that Felucca/Trammel bullshit. Even players who fell victim to a PK would agree, deep down, that being attacked by a player brought a level of adrenaline and danger that no mob could ever bring. I remember learning very quickly the steps you could take to protect yourself. Hiding under awnings to become essentially un-targetable for example until they put in the circle of transparency! Good times!

 

[Aildrik]

Fuck me makes me want to play UO.

Has anyone played on any of the UO emulated servers? A few years ago I had an itch for UO and signed up for one that was pre-T2A but could never find another soul online. Not much point to a sandbox game if there is little to no player interaction

 

[grimace]

Bob Cooksey recently completed this magnificent Airship City Home! The original idea for the airship came from Richard Garriott’s decision that Darkstarr should not have a permanent abode in Novia, but rather, would always be moving around because, well, Chaos! Therefore we created Darkstarr’s personal airship that will be christened (and named) soon.

Release 21 Grand Tour Quest Reward: Highwayman Hat

The only chance to obtain these rare decorative head pieces will be through participating in the pre-alpha testing. Once the game goes live you'll need to find a player willing to part with the item.

 

[Metro]

^ Marketing plant.

 

[J_C]

What's up with this project anyway? I always thought it is just a KS scam to get some easy money, and as I see it, it is still in development after 3 years. Is the project going anywhere?