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KickStarter Shroud of the Avatar - Lord British's Not-Ultima Online 2

Zep Zepo

Titties and Beer
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40 is too much of a fetch quest Zep Zepo.

These are just regular rats...later you visit the Giant Rat cave and must fetch 15 giant rat tails.

Zep--
 

grimace

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Release 41 has a lot of new content, polish, and stuff for us to complain about.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?p=71534

C-Ydt-rVoAAgpFh.jpg:large


Our newest placeable musical instruments are Lord British’s favorite: Harpsichords!
 
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but they are keeping true to the things people want, like looting other players and pvp not being optional if you leave town
How is that a good thing, though?
In almost every single MMO I played that had mandatory PvP which you could not opt out of (from as old as Meridian 59 to Mortal Online), it went like this:

1. I create a character.
2. Play a while in noob zone to get to know the game.
3. Enter the "real" world.
4. Get robbed by some much stronger char, which is camping right outside for weak chars.
5. "What a fun game." Uninstall.exe

I just can't see this ever being fun outside of heavy RP, which to be fair I only saw in UO so far. Which seems to be their direction. However, this is a "feature" I am extremely skeptical about.
We seem to be the opposite. Every MMORPG where something like that happened was a turn on. However, you're right about ti hurting the population. I've played on Chaos server in Wurm Online now since 2012 and its pvp nature definitely limits its population. I've played several PvP MMORPGs, including Shadowbane, and saw how their population and forums were affected by it. I also played UO in 1999 and thereafter and saw the same. No matter how mcuh -I- prefer PvP in an open world setting, I'm not going to deny its low popularity.

I believe there should always be some MMO's without the rules/restrictions, whatever they may be. HOWEVER, they should be few and far between. I believe this happens naturally, as players pick and choose what they like. Surely the makers of Shroud of the Avatar understand the implications of PvP in any kind of open world setting? They better, or maybe they're not prepared for it.

I think the best middleground between open world PvP and PvE is something like Eve Online. Some combination of safe zones and PvP open world in select areas. And some way to make it fair enough for both sides so they're not torn apart.
 
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grimace

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I think the best middleground between open world PvP and PvE is something like Eve Online. Some combination of safe zones and PvP open world in select areas. And some way to make it fair enough for both sides so they're not torn apart.

My conjecture has been that as the world map expands (with episodes 2, 3, 4, 5) we'll see more OPEN PVP continents to satisfy those who want the lawless excitement.

While testing the game mechanics such griefing would create an even more hostile testing environment.

Blood Bay is a scene near the capital city that is OPEN PVP on the continent of Novia.
 

Eggs is eggs

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Haha I realized I made the same "how is the game?" post a few months ago. I saw a video on youtube of someone playing it and it looks alright I guess. Seems pretty similar to WoW or any other typical MMO. All the shit they are selling to raise funds is a huge turn off though. It seems like they're doing the exact same thing as Star Citizen, but at least this game seems farther along in development (nor have they exploited the fans as much, though I don't know whether that is by design or just because Star Citizen is better at exploitation).
 
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but they are keeping true to the things people want, like looting other players and pvp not being optional if you leave town
How is that a good thing, though?
In almost every single MMO I played that had mandatory PvP which you could not opt out of (from as old as Meridian 59 to Mortal Online), it went like this:

1. I create a character.
2. Play a while in noob zone to get to know the game.
3. Enter the "real" world.
4. Get robbed by some much stronger char, which is camping right outside for weak chars.
5. "What a fun game." Uninstall.exe

I just can't see this ever being fun outside of heavy RP, which to be fair I only saw in UO so far. Which seems to be their direction. However, this is a "feature" I am extremely skeptical about.

Idk how this game will turn out, so far it looks very prosperous, so i'm not holding my breath. But the example you described fits WoW much more than it does UO and the like (senseless killing of newbs that holds absolutely zero value and is usually done by butthurt shitters that can't into fair pvp).
Speaking of UO though, getting killed outside of Britania was pretty much normal regardless of your skill level (both as a player and as a character) and ENTIRELY AVOIDABLE, by a thousand different ways. I.e. sneak by, use the bear method (the one where you only need to run faster than your friend rather than the bear), use one of the portals, either local or made by players, go out through any other way out of town (I remember it having at least ten of them, and I played the game more than 10 years ago) ask for help which can net you anything from invis potion to a full set of gear and a personal escort, gang up with other butthurt newbs and try to take your dignity back etc. Not to mention that it meant entirely fuck all since being a noob ment having nothing of value, head collecting aside. Besides after getting like 60 magery and getting some basic spells and reagents you could kill pretty much anyone as long as you weren't retarded, especially in Minoc, heheh.

I'm not even sure 'git gud' applies here, more like grow a pair you god damned sissy and learn to fight back and use the tools available regardless if it's intended or not instead of asking for another pair of rails to hop on. Hostile environment and lack of direction(s) is a thing a miss most in modern MMOs and games in general.
 
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thesheeep

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But the example you described fits WoW much more than it does UO and the like (senseless killing of newbs that holds absolutely zero value and is usually done by butthurt shitters that can't into fair pvp).
My experience in WoW was that I just had a generally good time either soloing or in small groups.
I never was killed randomly by any camping above-my-level chars. Besides, there are barely any full PvP zones for low-mid level regions.
I'm not interested in guilds, since I never play any game long enough to make any valuable contribution to a guild. I play most games for a short while (maybe a couple dozen hours), getting what fun they hold for me and then move on, eventually coming back (if it was good).

Speaking of UO though, getting killed outside of Britania was pretty much normal regardless of your skill level (both as a player and as a character) and ENTIRELY AVOIDABLE, by a thousand different ways. I.e. sneak by, use the bear method (the one where you only need to run faster than your friend rather than the bear), use one of the portals, either local or made by players, go out through any other way out of town (I remember it having at least ten of them, and I played the game more than 10 years ago) ask for help which can net you anything from invis potion to a full set of gear and a personal escort, gang up with other butthurt newbs and try to take your dignity back etc.
Nice, all of which are ways that a noob simply wouldn't know. UO is also kind of a bad example here, I was playing on a server that wasn't even the standard world, so I'm not sure how much it applies to the standard UO. What I did was more moving out of the starting area, just taking a road and I was pretty much immediately killed. I kept on playing it, actually, and eventually is was fun (heavy RP server). But I was like 13 and had a shitload of time. I would never keep on playing after such an experience nowadays, too many better alternatives.
I already work in real life, I don't need the feeling of "work" in my games. As soon as something becomes far more work than fun for a longer period, I'm out.

Same experience with Mortal Online, same with Meridian, etc.
The concept of unrestricted looting and PvP doesn't seem to be wrong, but it just takes a handful of idiots to ruin the experience for new players. And those are all that matters, at least in the first 1-2 years of an MMO.

I'm not even sure 'git gud' applies here, more like grow a pair you god damned sissy and learn to fight back and use the tools available regardless if it's intended or not instead of asking for another pair of rails to hop on. Hostile environment and lack of direction(s) is a thing a miss most in modern MMOs and games in general.
What you completely ignore is the immediate experience of a new player.
Which is what I described in my post. I'm not talking about the experience for a veteran player maybe building a new char or whatever.

Who in their right mind would find it fun to have a starting experience of getting out of the "tutorial area" just to be immediately killed and stripped of your stuff? Nobody would.
Even if your stuff was worthless in comparison, you just spend time on it and earned it and thus it had value to you.
As to why anyone would do that to new players? Beats me. People are stupid in general, and some are assholes to top it off.

And "learn to fight back"?!
Get a fucking life! The amount of time it would take to be able to fight back in such a situation is beyond what most non-jobless people are willing to spend. Again, you play games because you want to have fun, escapism, immerse yourself in a world. Not to work on some kind of virtual revenge against some kiddy basement dweller. :lol:

There is a reason unrestricted PvP MMORPGs almost never have a player base worth mentioning. Mortal Online (afaik one of the latest of that kind) is at about 100-200 concurrent players. That's practically dead.
If a new player has a shitty first impression, he won't come back.
And for some reason, fools like you (including many devs, it seems) expect new players to be fully accustomed to the rules and metagame within a couple of hours. Or to want to get accustomed to all of those just to have a decent time.
 
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Instead of going point by point i'll adress the main thing from the get go, you play (or want to play) MMOs yet you don't want to waste reasonable amount of time learning some basic mechanics and such. U wot.

Aside from that, Mortal Online, Darkfall and some other full loot PvP oriented games sure do suck, but it has nothing to do with the loot system, but more with the fact that it's mostly indy shovelware with no actual talent or production values behind it. Meanwhile big devs don't want to risk it, since casuals happily gobble up whatever reskinned WoW/LA version comes up next.

As far as new player experience goes, I started playing UO alone back when I was still in school, with no prior MMO experience (well, duh) and it's still my favorite multiplayer game to this day with plenty of great memories that no other game came close to recapture, including getting bashed outside of main cities, which didn't really stop at any point of my character's relative power as I mentioned above. However I still remember coming up to a brit bank after a few first deaths and asking around about what's exactly going on. People didn't just take their time to tell me about guard zones, various character states (murderer, criminal and so on), but also gave me some gear and told me to go elsewhere for the time being (train skills, farm up graveyards etc.), someone even gave me a mount. Which was all great and helpful, but lasted me about 10 minutes, before I charged in through the bridge and died like a bum again. But it never felt like bashing the head against a wall, there were always options to explore, places to go, people to talk to (INCLUDING SAID MURDERERS AND CRIMINALS) and in a few days I got a hang of how things work, which skills make sense as far as combat go, what are the no-go zones (if you value your loot), how runes and magic work and so on and so forth. Yeah I lost more fights than I won, but it was FUN, even dying never really felt unfair, because you could always get back at the offender in various ways, not just head-to-head combat.

I'll take that any day over boredom of building a new char in WoW. Which I started to play, because of the old (and in hindsight quite shitty) PVP movies. Despite being a big WC3 lover, after the initial shock and awe wore off I got quite bored with leveling and fetch quests and overall lifelessness of the world, hence why I spent all of my playtime in STV/hillsbrad duking it out with other lowbies... actually by the end of Vanilla I got only one char to lvl 60 (barely), even though I played almost from the initial release.
 

Zetor

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I thought "telethons" were supposed to be for charity -- though I suppose milking the whales is kinda like that.

... hmmm, why am I getting Star Citizen vibes?
 

taxalot

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... hmmm, why am I getting Star Citizen vibes?

I don't know.

Because they both started advertised as single player games and they turned out to be MMOs ?
Because they both promised a full SP game and now it's episodic and we have no end in sight for the release of the first episode ?
Because they both rely on blind fanboys to buy virtual items in their own larping universe?
... Because Richard Garriott and Chris Roberts are old friends ?

Sheesh, why would you say that !

This is the shit I regret the most backing. And I backed Space fucking Venture for 45$.
 

Infinitron

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Oh boy - Shroud of the Avatar rolls its own Fig: http://ultimacodex.com/2017/06/shro...-now-july-2017-new-equity-crowdfunding-pitch/

Shroud of the Avatar: Launch Target Now July 2017; New Equity Crowdfunding Pitch
BY WTF DRAGON · JUNE 1, 2017

sota-Oracle-7-logo-1024x619.jpg


Portalarium dropped a pretty big bit of news during yesterday’s Telethon of the Avatar: the company has begun a new equity crowdfunding campaign to raise additional funding for Shroud of the Avatar, using SeedInvest:

Videogame development company Portalarium is preparing to release Shroud of the Avatar, the spiritual successor to Richard Garriott’s Ultima series. Players that seek to unravel the mysteries of Shroud of the Avatar will find themselves immersed in a deep narrative, co-written by Richard Garriott and New York Times bestselling fantasy author Tracy Hickman, replete with ethical dilemmas and moral consequences that will follow players’ characters throughout the game. Whether as the ruler of a player-owned town with hundreds of real players as residents, a dragon-slaying adventurer, or a master craftsman sought by fellow players across the world of New Britannia, the Shroud of the Avatar sandbox provides players with the next leap in the evolution of massively multiplayer games, a key segment of the games market pioneered by Portalarium founder Richard Garriott in the 1990s. The MMO market has since grown to over $20 billion in annual revenues.​

Because the use of SeedInvest requires financial disclosure, we now also have a glimpse into Portalarium’s revenue streams, licensing agreements, and cash on hand:

Can you talk more about revenue streams?
We have one such contract with a Russian company that has already paid us a license fee as an advance against additional future royalties. We may sign additional territorial agreements.

Why is monthly influx of cash in your cash flow so high in July and August 2016?
Prior to July & August 2016, we erased players in our database approximately every quarter as the game data structures changed. In July 2016, we did our final player data wipe, which allowed played to claim goods and real estate permanently. While players still retained deeds they paid for previous to the final wipe, the specific property claims were all erased and everyone had to find new lots. This really motivated beta players to go online and claim properties that became newly available to the public. We will have a similar purge of storyline game state in Summer 2017 at the start of SoTA official story release launch to incentivize new players from our 200K registrations and others in the network, such as Ultima players, into SoTA.

What is the current cash position?
As of May 17th our current cash position is $528k, and we have one of our periodic telethons coming up which commonly net us in excess of $100k additional funds.​

And, perhaps even more surprisingly, the SeedInvest page gives us a release date (well, at least a month and year):

The software is currently in development and expected to launch in July 2017 at which point sales are expected to increase.​

Massively Overpowered also notes some other findings from the SeedInvest page:

It’s sent Reddit and the official forums into a tizzy as players and detractors question the game’s $25M valuation, its plans to fully launch in July 2017, the story wipe apparently coming, and some of the features touted in the investment briefing that aren’t in the game, like trade routes, a fully player-driven economy, town capture, and console/mobile functionality.​

I’m not sure what to make of all of this, apart from the most obvious conclusion: Portalarium is looking to expand their coffers using a similar sort of equity funding option to what Crowfall rather successfully employed. If successful, it’ll give the company a leg up not only on fine-tuning Shroud of the Avatar for its initial release, but also for future development of later episodes in its planned storyline.

https://www.reddit.com/r/shroudofth..._rereading_everything_in_seedinvest_im_about/

I'm still a backer of this game and this is just... where is all the money? What happened to all our pledge money?! I slept on this announcement but now that I'm reading it all with fresh eyes, I'm suddenly very very VERY concerned.

sauce: https://www.seedinvest.com/portalarium/series.b
  • as of May 17th our current cash position is $528k seriously - how can this be? Where are all the millions?!
  • requires approximately $230,000 a month to sustain operations. so with the money raised from the telethon, you have enough money to stay in business for just two more months?!
  • contract with a Russian company that has already paid us a license fee as an advance against additional future royalties. how much money did they give you? Where is it? Where is the Steam money? What about the other investors?
  • 64,000 volunteer testers uhm... I think you meant to say accounts sold... what the FUCK?! What happened to 200k New Britannians? You've only sold 64k copies of the game in four years?!?!
  • Innovative Development Methods include crowdsourced music, art, and code? If you got it all for free, where is all the money?
  • Recognized revenues to date have been through book sales - What book sales and which book? Is this coming from the Explore / Create autobiography? Did we fund a fucking autobiography? Or is this from revenue coming from Tracy Hickman books? Which is it? How much is collected monthly?
  • Episode 2-5 will be on console and mobile? WTF? Console? Mobile? What?!
  • The software is currently in development and expected to launch in July 2017 at which point sales are expected to increase. LAUNCH THIS SUMMER!? HOW IN THE FUCKING FUCK ARE YOU GOING FROM PRE-ALPHA TO LAUNCH IN LESS THAN TWO MONTHS!?
  • Pre-Money Valuation is $25,000,000 - who did this valuation? Unless a third party did this I can't believe it. You don't own the building you work in, you don't even own the code you're using to make the game. Where is this $25M valuation coming from?
  • slay a dragon, establish trade routes, craft weapons and armor, or conquer a town ... $ok, what fucking game are you talking about? Establish trade routes? Conquer a town? What the fucking fuck, Richard!?
  • The Company is a business that has not generated profits in recent years, has sustained net losses of $3,068,579 and $3,048,110 during the years ended December 31, 2016 and 2015, respectively, and has an accumulated deficit of $18,089,082 and $15,020,503 as of December 31, 2016 and 2015, respectively.https://www.seedinvest.com/portalarium/series.b/filing (read the Form C Financial Summary document for yourself)
I AM ABOUT TWO CUPS OF COFFEE AWAY FROM REPORTING THIS BLATANT SCAM LOOKING SHIT TO THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION! https://www.ftc.gov/complaint

Let butthurt reign!
 
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vonAchdorf

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Can you talk more about revenue streams?
We have one such contract with a Russian company that has already paid us a license fee as an advance against additional future royalties. We may sign additional territorial agreements.
Russians are everywhere.
 

vonAchdorf

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Numbers from the Form C:
The Company currently requires approximately $230,000 a month to sustain operations.
The Company currently has 29 employees in Texas.

The Company has a 3-year lease for its current office space that currently requires rent of $5,077.92 per month running from November 2015 through October 2018

They report net revenues of $19,255 for 2016 and $11,888 for 2015 and a net loss of 3M in these years. Accumulated deficit including 2016 is 18 million dollars.

The Company has been accepting deposits and pre-selling its product “Shroud of Avatar.” The final product is not ready for sale and therefore no orders have been fulfilled to date. The Company has deferred revenue from presale activities of $10,772,003 and $7,898,916 as of December 31, 2016 and December 31, 2015, respectively.

Form C said:
The Company is in the final phase of development of Shroud of the Avatar, the 2nd largest crowd funded game in history, with over $11M raised from the players’ community since the completion of the Company’s $7.5M Series A in Q2 2012.

A majority (52.4% prior to offering) of the Company is owned by Richard Garriott de Cayeux.

Following the Offering, the Purchasers will own 0.1% of the Company if the Target Amount is raised and 3.84% if the Maximum Amount is raised on a fully diluted basis.

Based on the Offering price of the Securities, the pre-offering value ascribed to the Company is $25,000,000.

They look into a bright future:
Although there are now numerous strong players competing for MMO market share today, many would acknowledge that Lord British’s ongoing vision will continue to chart new territories, especially within the hard core segment.

Star Citizen 2.0:
we will require additional funding after this offering to complete the development and then launch our product.

The video game industry:

The video game industry is subject to increasing regulation of content, consumer privacy, and distribution. Non-compliance with laws and regulations could materially adversely affect our business. The video game industry is subject to increasing regulation of content, consumer privacy, distribution and online hosting and delivery in the various countries where the Company intends to distribute the product.



Become an in-game tax free oligarch:

$500: Golden Armor and Golden Cloak

Game Access
Golden Cloak
Suit of Golden Clockwork armor

$1000: Golden Row Home

All of the above
Golden Lord British Shield
Tax Free Player Owned Town Row Lot Deed
Golden Ornate Greenhouse 4-Story Row House
Golden Clockwork Raven Pet

$10,000: Golden City Home

All of the above
Tax Free Player Owned Town City Lot Deed
Golden Kobold 4-Story Great Hall
Golden Sword
Tour of Portalarium Studios (travel expenses not included)

$30,000: Golden Castle

All of the above
Tax Free Player Owned Town Castle Lot Deed
Golden Airship
Golden Castle Walls
Golden clockwork pet dragon
Dinner with Lord and Lady British and other Golden Castle owners at their home Britannia Manor (travel expenses not included)

Episode 1 available for PC / Mac / Linux
◆ $40 for base game full access (limited free trial version available)
◆ “Add On Store”: prices vary between $5-$12,000 for premium currency, vanity items, and convenience
◆ Episodes 2 - 5: PC / Mac / Linux + Console & Mobile
◆ Economics similar to Episode 1
◆ New episode launch planned every 12-18 months
 
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Bumvelcrow

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Oh boy - Shroud of the Avatar rolls its own Fig

I'm so glad I pulled out of the kickstarter campaign for this one. I got one of the early backer pledges in a froth of Ultima enthusiasm, but cancelled after about a week when it became obvious which way this was heading.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Richard Garriot, WTF? Is he trying to LARP the plot of Ultima 5?
 

Infinitron

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Even though we knew it was going to happen from the very beginning, it's going to be a fascinating (and hilarious) experience watching this game's shit hit the fan.
 

Bumvelcrow

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it's going to be a fascinating (and hilarious) experience watching this game's shit hit the fan.

Whilst I have no sympathy at all for Chris Roberts, I can't help but feel disappointed in Richard Garriott. He made my favourite games when I was a child. Not just good, but genuinely life-changing. Although this should have been eminently predictable given the direction his games started heading when the technical limitations of a tile-based, turn-based world were removed.

:negative:
 

Infinitron

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https://www.reddit.com/r/shroudofth...ng_everything_in_seedinvest_im_about/dibx0lc/

Wow, these guys... On the official forums Berek is spinning the wording of launch on the SEC Form C.

The Form C states: The software is currently in development and expected to launch in July 2017 at which point sales are expected to increase.

Backers started freaking out and asking questions and Berek locked everyone down. Now he's telling everyone that they're not launching in July but that's just when the game is story complete. They have no idea what they're doing - that's the only thing anyone can be certain of.

:avatard:
 

MRY

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it's going to be a fascinating (and hilarious) experience watching this game's shit hit the fan.

Whilst I have no sympathy at all for Chris Roberts, I can't help but feel disappointed in Richard Garriott. He made my favourite games when I was a child. Not just good, but genuinely life-changing. Although this should have been eminently predictable given the direction his games started heading when the technical limitations of a tile-based, turn-based world were removed.

:negative:
The Guardian got to him.
 

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