"Sick of all the hatred from gamers" open letter from Anonymous game dev. via Kotaku

[Ranselknulf]

Haba does not understand how the internet works. You don't have to shrug off death threats.

Instead of crying on the internet, other options might include:

*Calling the police.
*Buying a gun.
*Changing to a different job where there aren't so many retards.

 

[RolePlayer]

10 bucks says it's an EA employee.

That works in marketing or PR.

Haba does not understand how the internet works. You don't have to shrug off death threats.

Instead of crying on the internet, other options might include:

*Calling the police.
*Buying a gun.
*Changing to a different job where there aren't so many retards.

Or having the critical thinking skills and common sense to realize that the death threat is likely from some 12 year old who calls himself deathvader420 who rides his bike to middlebrook middle school and tells people he's going to kill them when he gets fragged playing halo 3 online.

 

[DragoFireheart]

You have to be seriously deranged to expect someone to shrug off death treats. Try to imagine that kind of a reality for yourself. Dozens of Rogueys and hivers stalking you, flaming your work everywhere. "But it is just the Internet!"

Well, I don't think I could grow a skin thick enough to handle that, and I've had death treats in real life. It is probably easier to get over a threat you get face to face than constant anonymous barrage.

I doubt any of the posters whose emotional capacity is limited to posting "butthurt detected" could handle it either themselves.

But that's not the point of the article.

Someone that has to work 80 hours a week in game development is making very poor life choices. Blaming the toxic environment is pointless. It's a beta culture.

EDIT:

Not sure how the codex feels about lifehacker, but here:

http://lifehacker.com/we-need-to-work-smarter-not-harder-1263120534

So much of this is about out-doing each other. To say that "I'm busier than you are" means I'm more important, or that my time is more valuable, or that I am "winning" at some never-finished rat race. What you're trying to say with these responses is: I'm busier, more in-demand, more successful.

Here's the thing: it's harming how we communicate, connect, and interact. Everyone is busy, in different sorts of ways. Maybe you have lots of clients, or are starting a new business, or are taking care of a newborn. The point is this: with limited time and unlimited demands on that time, it's easy to fill your plate with activities constantly. But this doesn't mean that you should.

To assume that being "busy" (at this point it has totally lost its meaning) is brag-worthy, is ridiculous. By endlessly puffing our shoulders about how "up to my neck" we are, we're missing out on important connections with family and friends, as well as personal time. In addition to having entire conversations about how busy we are, we fail to share feelings with friends and family, ask about important matters, and realize that the "busy" is something that can be put on hold for a little while.

I am not trying to belittle anyone's work-load in the slightest. But in using it as a one-upping mechanism, we're failing to connect in a very substantial way. And we're making the problem worse: When everyone around us is "slammed," it's easy to feel guilty if we're not slaving away on a never-ending treadmill of toil. By trying to compete about it, we're only adding to that pool of water everyone seems to be constantly "treading" in. And all this complaining is having serious effects on our mental health.

And yet we continue to use long hours as a sort of macho badge of honor.

 

[Gord]

Meh, I guess it can wear you down eventually when you get constantly critizised for stuff you like and value.
You can tell them to "grow up and take it like a man" as often as you want, but that's not how that stuff works.

Also it's kind of ironic to be diagnosed with butthurt from one of the most butthurt places on the entire net - actually, thinking about it it's logical, we know what we are talking about.

 

[FeelTheRads]

and maybe think twice about degrading the people who put their time and energy into making games

People who make games are special. Can't say bad things to them and can't resell their products. That's just how special they are. Hurray for people who put their time and energy TIME AND ENERGY MAN WHO ELSE DOES THAT I ASK YOU?! into making games.

 

[Stabwound]

Is there any other domain where there is as high a ratio of douchebags to normal humans than "gamers"? I think it's more a symptom of a whiny, entitled generation of horrid children, raised by parents who don't want to discipline them anymore, and transmit them horrible values, along with society. In the old Usenet or other older Internet environments you sure didn't have such an out of whack ratio of signal to noise, and while viciousness always existed, it wasn't always this gratuitous and this much of a relentless bombardment.

You're right, though. There is an entire generation of kids growing up completely absorbed in only the internet and videogames, with virtually no other interests or life outside of that, and this is what happens. It's a pretty sad state of affairs, and the "gaming community" is something no one should want to associate themselves with anymore. It's just a cesspool.

Not this place, though, of course.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Also translation:

Please don't be mean and like all games otherwise you hurt feelings.

Yours truly,
Jay Wilson.

 

[RolePlayer]

Meh, I guess it can wear you down eventually when you get constantly critizised for stuff you like and value.
You can tell them to "grow up and take it like a man" as often as you want, but that's not how that stuff works.

Also it's kind of ironic to be diagnosed with butthurt from one of the most butthurt places on the entire net - actually, thinking about it it's logical, we know what we are talking about.

How pathetic of a human being do you have to be, to care so deeply, about what random people who never met you on a personal level, think about you, or a game you made, where you were likely 1 coder on a team of 100-200+, "developing" the next iteration of rail shooter cinematics 100? (e.g. a game where your contribution had about as much impact as a sweat shop worker, stitching together another pair of jeans).

 

[Dexter]

You have to be seriously deranged to expect someone to shrug off death treats. Try to imagine that kind of a reality for yourself. Dozens of Rogueys and hivers stalking you, flaming your work everywhere. "But it is just the Internet!"

Oops, hit Reply too fast.

They are not "death threats" though, that is just more hysteria to make people feel bad for them shoveling out crappy games for their corporate overlords and stave off criticism (you will notice that in these discussions the "moderate" people with actual arguments are never brought up or engaged, only the shitsters that can barely put a sentence together and how they are "being attacked", it's basically what this guy also said in regards to the Castlevania thing: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rvq3st ). They're usually the same kind of comments that you get in a game about someone copulating with your mother or comments on YouTube and Anonymous forums that wish you "die in a fire" or similar, there is even a legal definition to delineate actual "threats": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_threat

Let's put it like this, can anybody give me a single instance where a game developer was actually murdered over something he did in a game? Surely the media would be all over that if it happened so I don't assume this has ever actually happened. Especially not with Anonymous people living across the globe and only commenting on a YouTube video for "newest AAA game". I don't think they should line up for "hazard pay" quite yet because a few people have been mean to them over the Internet.

It's much more likely that you'll die working with heavy machinery or in a mine when nobody even knows who the fuck you are at even less pay than being killed by 13 year old video gamers, so you should redirect your sense of empathy to them instead.

 

[FeelTheRads]

(e.g. a game where your contribution had about as much impact as a sweat shop worker, stitching together another pair of jeans).

Think about those workers, man. Do you think they didn't put their time and energy in that pair of jeans you're stinking up with your sweaty ass?

 

[DragoFireheart]

Think about those workers, man.

Nah, I'm an American. BACK TO WORK ASIAN SLAVES MAKING MY IPHONES!

 

[Gord]

How pathetic of a human being do you have to be, to care so deeply, about what random people who never met you on a personal level, think about you, or a game you made, where you were likely 1 coder on a team of 100-200+, "developing" the next iteration of rail shooter cinematics 100? (e.g. a game where your contribution had about as much impact as a sweat shop worker, stitching together another pair of jeans).

Just a normal, average person I guess? People do care about what others think about them and their work.
If you don't, you are actually an exception and probably less human than them.

Of course, to what degree someone cares is varying. Anyway, we don't know where he's coming from, could be an inXile dev that read too muc Codex for all we know.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Just a normal, average person I guess? People do care about what others think about them and their work.

The only person's opinion who I care about is my boss who determines whether I keep my job or not. I couldn't care less if co-workers/non employees are butthurt.

If my boss is satisfied with my work then END OF RHINE you other assholes don't pay me.

 

[Crane]

Think about those workers, man.

Nah, I'm an American. BACK TO WORK ASIAN SLAVES MAKING MY IPHONES!

This was obvious sarcasm, but

Someone that has to work 80 hours a week in game development is making very poor life choices.

You are blaming workers for the conditions they face in their industry, conditions that they have no say in. Blaming "poor life choices" is laughable -- you should instead look to the economic circumstances that surround the industry, along side the game development institutions themselves, where the power lies, the institutional structure, etc.

Just a normal, average person I guess? People do care about what others think about them and their work.

The only person's opinion who I care about is my boss who determines whether I keep my job or not. I couldn't care less if co-workers/non employees are butthurt.

If my boss is satisfied with my work then END OF RHINE you other assholes don't pay me.

Are you trolling?

How pathetic of a human being do you have to be, to care so deeply, about what random people who never met you on a personal level, think about you, or a game you made, where you were likely 1 coder on a team of 100-200+, "developing" the next iteration of rail shooter cinematics 100? (e.g. a game where your contribution had about as much impact as a sweat shop worker, stitching together another pair of jeans).

Just a normal, average person I guess? People do care about what others think about them and their work.
If you don't, you are actually an exception and probably less human than them.

Of course, to what degree someone cares is varying. Anyway, we don't know where he's coming from, could be an inXile dev that read too muc Codex for all we know.

 

[AlexOfSpades]

You have to be smart and find out if the people criticizing your work are the typical illiterate haters that post "u suk" everywhere or if they're legitimate, paying customers disappointed with the product you shat on their hard-drives. What if... what if! They're telling you to die not because they're "ignorant haters" but because you (or maybe the entire team) dropped the ball? Sure they could put it in a more eloquent way, but something is definitely wrong. I'm fairly sure the makers of really good games get far more praise than attacks, and if you're only being attacked then, well buddy.

Maybe the gaming industry isnt for you.

Edit: Ahahahah posted in Kotaku? AAA dev? Hi EA

 

[DragoFireheart]

1# You are blaming workers for the conditions they face in their industry, conditions that they have no say in. Blaming "poor life choices" is laughable -- you should instead look to the economic circumstances that surround the industry, along side the game development institutions themselves, where the power lies, the institutional structure, etc.

#2 Are you trolling?

1# No one is forcing them to stay at those jobs. Again, beta culture.

2# How is this trolling? Feedback from fans is useful, but ultimately your boss has final say. You do what he says or you find new employment.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

10 bucks says it's an EA employee.

My gut feeling says it's someone working on Thiaf.

 

[Ninjerk]

 

[Crane]

1# No one is forcing them to stay at those jobs. Again, beta culture.

Just because it's voluntary doesn't mean it's just or correct. I mean, you could make the same argument for sweatshop workers, just tell them to go work for someone else who might be a little better.

 

[Ranselknulf]

Video game development isn't a fall back job for people who have fallen on hard times. I don't think the comparison to a sweatshop worker is relevant.

 

[Crane]

Video game development isn't a fall back job for people who have fallen on hard times. I don't think the comparison to a sweatshop worker is relevant.

I agree with the first sentence but not the second. The point of the comparison wasn't "look at how exploited these video game developers are, they're no better off than sweatshop workers!" I don't even agree with that -- some sweatshops have suicide nets installed! Video game developers aren't the people who are going to look to jump out the window. They're not living in the same circumstances. The point was that I don't think that voluntarism is enough to judge whether the conditions workers face in their industries are just, whether that be fastfood workers or car salesmen, what-have-you.

 

[Dexter]

1# No one is forcing them to stay at those jobs. Again, beta culture.

Just because it's voluntary doesn't mean it's just or correct. I mean, you could make the same argument for sweatshop workers, just tell them to go work for someone else who might be a little better.

This is why the "sweatshop complaining" is inherently flawed, in a lot of countries they are working there because it's the best alternative for these people to work in a clean and even moderately safe environment. The alternatives would often be digging through trash, forced labor camps or shoveling shit. If big companies removed their factories from there the region would be even worse off. If industrialization is taking place usually the entire situation is going to improve over a few decades, they might get more money and safeties, other factories may move there and give them some options and since they are getting more money and are living more "civilized" other service industries like restaurants and consumer electronics will be moving in with time. At least that is also how it happened in most Western countries during the industrial revolution. If they removed all industrial production from an area over concerns of sweat shops they'd be back to digging through mud and selling scrap instead.

This is an entirely incomparable situation to the job market in most western countries where there are a lot of alternatives. They could also get organized, form a union and demand more rights by withholding work, but that is apparently beyond most of them.

 

[RolePlayer]

How pathetic of a human being do you have to be, to care so deeply, about what random people who never met you on a personal level, think about you, or a game you made, where you were likely 1 coder on a team of 100-200+, "developing" the next iteration of rail shooter cinematics 100? (e.g. a game where your contribution had about as much impact as a sweat shop worker, stitching together another pair of jeans).

Just a normal, average person I guess? People do care about what others think about them and their work.
If you don't, you are actually an exception and probably less human than them.

Of course, to what degree someone cares is varying.

Yes, an average human being cares what people think of them.

But the person who is doling out criticism (or "hate") directed at you or a game you coded doesn't know anything about you.

You have to be a pathetic overly sensitive overly sheltered cry baby to take any of that personally.

 

[Cassidy]

Fuck that loser who wrote this letter.

 

[Black_Willow]

Video game development isn't a fall back job for people who have fallen on hard times. I don't think the comparison to a sweatshop worker is relevant.

I agree with the first sentence but not the second. The point of the comparison wasn't "look at how exploited these video game developers are, they're no better off than sweatshop workers!" I don't even agree with that -- some sweatshops have suicide nets installed! Video game developers aren't the people who are going to look to jump out the window. They're not living in the same circumstances. The point was that I don't think that voluntarism is enough to judge whether the conditions workers face in their industries are just, whether that be fastfood workers or car salesmen, what-have-you.

Dude, have you ever worked in the IT in a civilised country?
I'll tell you how it is in Potatoland - if you don't like the job you can always...


...wait for it...


...RESIGN!!! And find yourself another job. There's plethora of those.
If you work 80 hours a week that means you:
a) actualy love your job and prefer working over having some free time
b) are showered with $$$ every day and you just can't let it go
c) are a fucking moron