So how come people dislike Fortnite but like Quake 3?

[unfairlight]

What is this new, what is this good? Bring me some fucking examples. Xonotic is probably the most innovative arena shooter in a long while since it even considered having completely different weapons than normal Quake. If someone did do something new or good, you'd bitch about it regardless and wouldn't play it. Most of the old guard won't play it. The game would slowly wither away like all the other AFPS games.
Also, people who look for quick fun won't ever play arena shooters, because arena shooters are far more aggravating than fun most of the time. You either get stomped or don't get stomped, there's rarely any inbetween since no one plays team modes anyway and duel is snowbally as fuck most of the time with little chance of recovery if you lose the lead early on. The one and only team mode that I have ever seen with any sort of consistent popularity is clan arena, everything else is fucking dead.
lol @ good art direction. That art direction WILL NOT SHOW since anyone that wants any amount of competitiveness will be using picmip textures.

 

[abija]

How about until someone does a good afps you refrain from retarded shit like "people still wouldn't play it".

You either get stomped or don't get stomped, there's rarely any inbetween since no one plays team modes anyway and duel is snowbally as fuck most of the time with little chance of recovery if you lose the lead early on.

Couldn't be more wrong. Until very high skill levels, a small difference in player skill does not translate into a stomp. But then again, you need to get enough players to be able to matchmake.

That art direction WILL NOT SHOW since anyone that wants any amount of competitiveness will be using picmip textures.

Wrong again, it's quite easy to create a game with good visibility without picmip.

 

[unfairlight]

Yeah, if there was a good AFPS people still wouldn't play it. AFPS does not appeal to casuals and the old guard would hate it because it dared to change anything and would still play Q3A/QL/QW. Saying "new" and "good" wouldn't do anything, give me some examples of "new" and "good" that you could add to a game without compromising the core formula.
No, a small difference doesn't, but getting red armor and a high tier weapon will essentially ensure that your snowball cannot be stopped or will be very, very difficult to stop. That also adds in the factor of spawn luck on all maps that aren't just mirrors. This is why I prefer playing arena modes rather than regular pickup modes since I am always on equal levels with my enemy.
And that wouldn't matter. People would use picmip regardless because it's a free advantage and for higher performance. This is, again, why I said "anyone that wants any amount of competitiveness" since people who will take the game even semi seriously are going to picmip the game.

 

[Tehdagah]

Both are good.

Quake 3 is more of a true "high skilled" game since there's zero randomness in it, since everything is timed and at a fixed location. Fortnite is a game that can be based entirely around luck for victory.

Then why the most skilled Fortnite players win almost every round?

 

[taxalot]

I do not know about Fortnite but PUBG is a superb game.

 

[Mexi]

I've only ever played a handful of fps. Resistance: Fall of Man, Quake 3: Arena, Black Hawk Down, and SWAT: 4. I'm not into fps, but damn, Quake 3: Arena was fucking great. That dude Xaero was a GoAT NPC. Motherfucker dominated shit and it was fun chunking that chink motherfucker.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Lyke OMG you guize, how cum sum ppl give a free pass to Planetscape Tournament just because its from the 90s but they don't like Aliens: Colonial Marines? I mean it's basically the same game, both have enemies and maps amirite?

Jesus, Crispy. You aren't even trying anymore.

 

[taxalot]

Alright I have to say that quake 3 arena is mediocore at the best I think. It's basically just like fortnite where the entire goal is you spawn in random places and have to seek out OP gear across the gamemap. There's no balance whatsoever to it. So how come the actual design is to where the buzzsaw can't beat a bfg? A lot of people complain that fortnite follows this exactly but actually I see a lot of people who give a game like Quake 3 a free pass just because its from the 90's where as fortnite is the spiritual successor to quake three arena

That's easy to answer. Fortnite sucks because it's new, because kids like it, because you play it for free, because it's easy to play, because mechanic-wise it brings nothing new to the table.

Which is exactly how most people would have described Quake 3 at release, but you know ? Whatever.

 

[Mexi]

Holy shit, Quake 3 is 14 bucks on Steam!? I bought that shit for like $5 at a Pawnshop as a kid. Too bad I lost the CD. I'm itching to play it again.

 

[ItsChon]

because it's easy to play, because mechanic-wise it brings nothing new to the table.

Both of those aren't true. I was admittedly new to third person shooters, and all my shooting experience has previously been with a controller, but it took a good few days to get decent enough where I wasn't losing every fire fight without getting lucky. And this is at the lowest level. It's not that easy mate, and that's without even going into the building; which doubles as a new mechanic. No game has ever had a building mechanic like Fornite does, that's plenty new.

 

[markec]

 

[unfairlight]

Then why the most skilled Fortnite players win almost every round?

I'm assuming on equal skill levels. If you get high tier gear earlier then you have a much, much higher chance of winning encounters.

 

[Venser]

Totalbiscuit said something about this that I agree with, even though I wouldn't say that I was a big fan of him.

Meh, all those games mentioned except Quake Live are mediocre and QL is just old Q3 anyway and people played it for very long time, hungry for something new.

 

[unfairlight]

Toxxik is the best that you would ever get for a new UT like game, Xonotic is the best open source Quake "clone" that there is (even if it really isn't a clone at all), Reflex is the best that CPMA will probably ever get due to excellent netcode and a superb engine, I don't know that much about UT4 as I haven't played it but Warsow was an interesting take on classic CPMA. This "something new" argument doesn't work for the reasons I have said before, the AFPS community HATES change and will whine about anything that the developers will do 9/10 times.

 

[Venser]

Toxxik is the best that you would ever get for a new UT like game, Xonotic is the best open source Quake "clone" that there is (even if it really isn't a clone at all), Reflex is the best that CPMA will probably ever get due to excellent netcode and a superb engine, I don't know that much about UT4 as I haven't played it but Warsow was an interesting take on classic CPMA. This "something new" argument doesn't work for the reasons I have said before, the AFPS community HATES change and will whine about anything that the developers will do 9/10 times.

Toxixik is a wannabe UT that got killed by UT4 announcement. Xonotic may be "the best open source Quake clone" but it's a shit game. Reflex is just worse version of CPMA with a terrible sound design so why play it over original? UT4 was abandoned halfway through alpha and Warsow is a cool game from 2005 that every few years gets a small gameplay and visual revamp. Wasn't great in 2005 and definitely isn't great now.
Only hope is Quake Champions that is surprisingly doing fine despite devs questionable decisions and terrible netcode. Still in beta so will see if it takes off or dies. Besides that there's Diabotical which is "coming soon" for years. Last time James was mentioning 2019 release and I think it's gonna be a fun game with some cool mechanics but it's developed by a small team and can't really see it becoming popular.

 

[unfairlight]

Xonotic may be "the best open source Quake clone" but it's a shit game

Tell me how.

Reflex is just worse version of CPMA with a terrible sound design so why play it over original

wat
My only issue with out of all things, sound design in reflex is the absurdly loud killsound, but everything in reflex can be modified to your liking so who really cares? You can just install a Q3A soundpack if you don't like it.

Only hope is Quake Champions that is surprisingly doing fine despite devs questionable decisions and terrible netcode

lmao
Quake Champions is dying in real time. Still dropping players despite the F2P launch.

Besides that there's Diabotical which is coming soon for year

Diabotical is literally no different than Reflex in most regards. If Reflex didn't succeed, I have no idea how Diabotical would either, that game is less moddable than Reflex too as far as I know.

 

[Venser]

Tell me how.

I don't even know where to start. I honestly find it puzzling that someone who played the game would even ask that question. No direction, super generic design, terrible sound, graphics already outdated at the release, oversimplified movement, only 2 OK-ish maps and absolutely no perspective for the future.

It's hard for me explain what makes an arena FPS good and satisfying, it's a combination of things. First of all the guns have to feel powerful. How good does it feel to release a fully charged rocket in UT or fire a rail in Q2? In Xonotic, Warsow and Reflex all the guns look and sound like toy guns. How awesome does it feel to pop someone up with a rocket and land that rail combo or gib a full room and hear "ULTRA KILL!"? How good does it feel to run around on empty maps all by yourself? Does the game have a strong sense of identity or does it seem generic or a copy of something else? Is there any perspective to it, why would one invest their time into playing a game with a small playerbase and waste time finding opponents or put practice into a game that nobody will play in a year or two? Is there a ranking system that would make practice feel rewarding? Can the game develop a healthy esports scene? You may say the whole esports thing is a recent gimmick but it was actually reading about the tournaments in a local gaming magazine, Thresh winning Ferrari etc that really got me interested in Quake before I even owned a computer or had a chance to try the game. Most arena FPS players are tired of playing a "dead game" and they don't want some small indie title, they are hungry for a new AAA game with some marketing behind it and ability to attract a new players. As it is right now Quake Champions is the closest thing to it. I can only hope they can fix the issues and add enough content so the game is in good state once it officially launches. Current free to play model with champion pack and lootboxes is fucking atrocious and it has to altered.

 

[unfairlight]

No direction

What a meaningless thing to say.

super generic design

What the fuck is this even supposed to mean? How do you make a quake like without it being "generic" in design? They're all the same, you shoot to kill your enemies with a variety of weapons you pick up during the game across the map and you often bunnyhop to increase your speed. By that logic, I guess Quake 2, 3, Warsow, Reflex, Quake Live, Quake Champions and just about any other Quakelike FPS ever made has "super generic design" and by the same token Xonotic is the least generic since it has completely different UT like weapons to any other quakelike.

terrible sound

So mod it out to your liking. Use the sounds of any game that you like.

graphics already outdated at the release

Yeah, no shit. It's a open source project with zero funding, be fucking realistic here. Good graphics are expensive graphics. Not that I give a fuck, because I use picmip anyway for clarity.

oversimplified movement

How? Autohop? I don't like autohop, and I feel like a good middle ground is jump buffering a la Reflex but as I said before, it's something that's so standard today.

only 2 OK-ish maps

So just play community maps. You know that a large point of open source and quakelikes is customizability, right? Just play community maps.

absolutely no perspective for the future.

Maybe because there is nothing to fucking change. The game is essentially flawless at the moment. I guess Quake Live has no perspective for the future, since it hasn't gotten any gameplay updates in over a year.

Xonotic, Warsow and Reflex all the guns look and sound like a toy guns

Agree, agree, disagree. Reflex weps feel great. Minor complaint regardless because the feel of guns isn't what people ever play AFPS for.

Can the game develop a healthy esports scene?

I hope not, esports is fucking cancer. Tournaments have always existed, and still do, but that doesn't mean I want this overmarketed esports cancer like CSGO has where people barely care about the game and only the espergs and everyone is a fucking wannabe shitter and gambling is everywhere.

they were hungry for a new AAA game with some marketing behind it and ability to attract a new players.

AFPS doesn't attract new players, you can see this very clearly with Quake Champions which is barely peaking at 7k players and averaging under 3k players, and that game was at E3.

 

[Ovplain]

Don't know about Fortnite, but I'm pretty sure I like Quake 3 because I was 13 or 14 years old when I played it.

 

[Venser]

Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that arena FPS games like Xonotic, Warsow, Reflex etc exist but I always saw it as Quake and UT being the main games (ok, maybe not UT in long time now) and the other ones are just fun distractions you can pick up for an hour every once in a while before getting back to your main game.

What the fuck is this even supposed to mean? How do you make a quake like without it being "generic" in design?

Sorry, I meant art design. Just look at this pic.

So mod it out to your liking. Use the sounds of any game that you like.

So just play community maps. You know that a large point of open source and quakelikes is customizability, right? Just play community maps.

If I'm gonna play the game with same old Quake maps and Quake sounds, it'd rather just play fucking Quake. Like I said, no direction.

How? Autohop? I don't like autohop, and I feel like a good middle ground is jump buffering a la Reflex but as I said before, it's something that's so standard today..

It's been some time since I played it but I remember movement with air control felt way easier than in other games, like so easy that it would make a new player look like defrag champion. You can view it as a good or a bad thing.

Maybe because there is nothing to fucking change. The game is essentially flawless at the moment. I guess Quake Live has no perspective for the future, since it hasn't gotten any gameplay updates in over a year.

Yes Quake Live has no perspective anymore, that's why everyone's moving to QC despite of being inferior game.

Agree, agree, disagree. Reflex weps feel great. Minor complaint regardless because the feel of guns isn't what people ever play AFPS for.

The guns have a big influence on how the gameplay feels. Reflex sound design makes my ears bleed and I'd definitely play and watch it more if they created better sounds.

I hope not, esports is fucking cancer. Tournaments have always existed, and still do, but that doesn't mean I want this overmarketed esports cancer like CSGO has where people barely care about the game and only the espergs and everyone is a fucking wannabe shitter and gambling is everywhere.

Yeah some shitty tournaments will always exist but you want to watch best players play the game and have them motivated to train and put on the best performance. I don't fucking care about some tournament where 3rd rate players compete for $50. At the end of Quake Live but before QC was announced all the best pros left. Guys like Cypher, Rapha, DaHanG, Cooller all went to play Overwatch and we were left with Agent as the undisputed QL champion.

AFPS doesn't attract new players, you can see this very clearly with Quake Champions which is barely peaking at 7k players and averaging under 3k players, and that game was at E3.

6510 is the current last 24 hour peak on Steam and there's some minority still using Bethesda launcher. They did a terrible job presenting and marketing Quake Champions. Didn't give it enough space on E3 nor fucking QuakeCon and worse of all the trailers were pure shit. Mostly 3rd person character running around and featuring mediocre frags. Even I could cut 100x better trailer than that

 

[unfairlight]

If I'm gonna play the game with same old Quake maps and Quake sounds, it'd rather just play fucking Quake. Like I said, no direction.

You're playing Quake anyway. What's your point?

It's been some time since I played it but I remember movement with air control felt way easier than in other games, like so easy that it would make a new player look like defrag champion. You can view it as a good or a bad thing.

AFAIK, it was essentially 1:1 with CPMA movement. I didn't recognize any real differences last I played. If you care enough, go and download the game and try for yourself. It's free after all.

Yes Quake Live has no perspective anymore, that's why everyone's moving to QC despite of being inferior game.

Quake Champions is dying like all the rest. Once Bethesda pulls the plug a year later (which they will, since QC was a MASSIVE flop) then people will return to what they used to play before and any and all new players that QC had will play until the servers shut down or quit because the devs cut support. I expect QC to be under 1000 players by summer 2019, unless a miracle happens.
Your argument about QL having "no perspective" is also pretty nonsense considering that old AFPS rarely, if ever, got gameplay changing patches. I guess Q3A was DOA and had no perspective because they didn't alternate between having rocket damage be 50 and 100 every 2 weeks. Granted, limitations of the time was cause of this to an extent, but if it worked then, why wouldn't it work now?

The guns have a big influence on how the gameplay feels. Reflex sound design makes my ears bleed and I'd definitely play and watch it more if they created better sounds.

Not to me, but this is opinionated. I wouldn't say good sound design was really the strong point of any AFPS, nor do I think this is a goal that you can realistically achieve. The only thing that matters is clarity and distinction of weapons and actions, and none of them fail in this respect.

Yeah some shitty tournaments will always exist but you want to watch best players play the game and have them motivated to train and put on the best performance. I don't fucking care about some tournament where 3rd rate players compete for $50. At the end of Quake Live but before QC was announced all the best pros left. Guys like Cypher, Rapha, DaHanG, Cooller all went to play Overwatch and we were left with Agent as the undisputed QL champion.

You can still watch the best of their respective games match up against each other without esperg cancer. I don't want it.

 

[Venser]

You're playing Quake anyway. What's your point?

That there's no point to playing a game that doesn't offer anything new or different from the game that I'm already playing except it's worse in every way. Adding Quake sounds to Xonotic won't make it any better, it'll make it worse as it's gonna lose more of the little identity it has left.

AFAIK, it was essentially 1:1 with CPMA movement. I didn't recognize any real differences last I played. If you care enough, go and download the game and try for yourself. It's free after all.

I might do it although of all the arena FPS games I have played, I liked Xonotic the least.

Your argument about QL having "no perspective" is also pretty nonsense considering that old AFPS rarely, if ever, got gameplay changing patches. I guess Q3A was DOA and had no perspective because they didn't alternate between having rocket damage be 50 and 100 every 2 weeks. Granted, limitations of the time was cause of this to an extent, but if it worked then, why wouldn't it work now?

By perspective I mainly meant playerbase and tournament support, not the patches. Still, the vanilla Q3A was pretty shit without OSP or CPMA.

Not to me, but this is opinionated. I wouldn't say good sound design was really the strong point of any AFPS, nor do I think this is a goal that you can realistically achieve. The only thing that matters is clarity and distinction of weapons and actions, and none of them fail in this respect.

Good sound make the gameplay more satisfying. Remember how much bitching there was when they changed the announcer voice in QL.

You can still watch the best of their respective games match up against each other without esperg cancer. I don't want it.

You can but you'd get mediocre performance. I'm not really interested in watching QL duels anymore after the best players left. I do watch QW from time to time but you still have to wonder would Milton really be the best if the playerbase was 10 000x bigger and others were actively training. It's like when Tox was beating QW players who were actively playing while he was not.

 

[Venser]

Installed Xonotic, surprisingly there are populated servers. Joined some DM and easily won despite not knowing weapons. Everyone was playing so bad I thought I was playing vs bots so I asked how long do they play and every single one told me they just started today. So Xonotic is getting new players daily? wtf

 

[unfairlight]

Installed Xonotic, surprisingly there are populated servers. Joined some DM and easily won despite not knowing weapons. Everyone was playing so bad I thought I was playing vs bots so I asked how long do they play and every single one told me they just started today. So Xonotic is getting new players daily? wtf

Xonotic is free. That should explain everything.

 

[Venser]

Xonotic is free. That should explain everything.

So are tons of other games with no players. I'm surprised many people even know Xonotic exists.