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Torment So is Tides of Numenera actually worth a damn?

Bigg Boss

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No. PlanHex likes it though. He bought it for full price and got a mega huge boner.
Stop the lies, I backed the kickstarter for way too much (enough to get a box) and thought it was middling with mostly wasted potential.
I really liked the spooky guy that MRY wrote though.

Mad yuo post. He loves inXile guys. Brother None, and him both sucked Fargo's limp penis in some fag bar I heard. I was there. It's not gay if you fuck someone in the ass is it?

Really though W2 was my first and only Kickstarter, lured in by Fargo's sweet words, then it fucked ME in the ass in some gay bar, leaving me with a worn out bunghole and bruised ego. Torment 2 (notnumenera) looked good at first glance, but they couldn't sucker me in with nostalgia this time.

This is the age of shady nostalgia con artists. No Originality Allowed.
 
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Sacred82

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Great game. I would play it again if I didn't have a 100 other games to play.

If someone wiped my copy, I would pay for it again.

The only real problem the game has is the completely nonsensical Tide bullshit. Seriously, wtf came up with that? And for what?

It's not part of the Numanuma setting, which is bullshit in itself, but that just like the butthurt fanboys isn't a 'real' problem IMO. Did Planescape ever make much sense? More of a rhetorical question there even though I never read any sourcebooks.The Tides thing would have been nice as far as reactivity goes, but the execution is horrible. Like, try to finish the game without the blue Tide being one of your dominant sides. It's meant to represent truthfulness and knowledge, but essentially, whenever you inquire about pretty much anything or relate any factual information to someone else you get attuned to Blue. You'd have to go out of your way to sidestep people's questions or just skip dialogue to not get a lot of blue loyalty points.

I had a playthrough going where I wanted to go Silver for the heck of it cuz I'm egotistical like dat, but pretty much all you can do to get there is tell everyone who doesn't want to know "I'm the falling star!". I didn't know Silver was supposed to represent brain damage.


But this is essentially the same problem Pillars had. You hire a bunch of shit writers who all come with their own idea of concepts like cruelty, cleverness, honesty and benevolence, and then they either go Lawful Stupid/ Murderhobo Evil for coherence's sake ("no Mr Miller, richest guy in town, keep your money please. I'm sure it's much better spent on harlots and booze for you and your family than to outfit my adventuring company. Also I love getting into fights on your behalf, my pleasure"), or they go wild with the labeling and you just have to guess (in Expert mode) or you click on the preassigned option like a trained monkey. If you play a Paladin you definitely don't want to screw up, but even with any other character for whom I have a concept in mind I won't stray, because collecting points in all kinds of dispositions is horrible design and defies any concept created by me. Faction reputations are way, way better than this.
 
Unwanted

a Goat

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The game was bad from the initial concept phase.

Let's make spiritual successor to the worst-selling IE game, liked only by neckbeards who use it as an evidence that games can be entertainment for adults, while advising each other how to avoid anything that isn't CYOA in the game. What can go wrong?
 
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Sacred82

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Actually, the game is mediocre. Calling it a bad game is a mistake borne of completely valid expectations. Why is it a mistake if the expectations are valid?

the game is bad because it's mediocre but I had expectations.

Not sure if your expectations being valid even makes a difference for that bullshit.


Who validated your expectations and since when is the finished product bad because you personally expected more?
 
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Sacred82

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I actually meant him. I mean, that's what people wanted. A PS:T with overhauled graphics. Or rather, that's what they think they want.
 

Deleted Member 22431

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The story is bad, the characters are bland, the protagonist is uninteresting, the combat is almost nonexistent and in the few opportunisties you can fight is awful, it drags on, the itemization has no real effect on the gameplay, the stat checks are fluffy and there is no resource management going on, etc. The good things: the art of the backgrounds (the portraits are awful though), the use of anamnesis in dialogues and a few quests that are interesting (e.g., the robot with "children"). Overall, it's a bad cRPG by any reasonable standard and it shows that InXile can't make good cRPGs because they don't have what it takes. The game it's just wrong: it's a storyfagg cRPG with poor C&C and writing. The fact that this bad game cost a fortune shows that its development was the mess of incompetent people.
 

Roqua

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The story is bad, the characters are bland, the protagonist is uninteresting
Since this is completely subjective I can't say you are wrong - but I thought the story was pretty good, with a better supporting cast than was in PST, and the protagonist felt far more like my character than just a protagonist like the Nameless One felt for me in PST.

the combat is almost nonexistent and in the few opportunisties you can fight is awful, it drags on,

I agree combat is far more rare than in most crpgs, especially ones following the endless hordes of easy enemies model very popular with rpg-lite fans, but I thought the combat included was extremely well done. It not only is not awful, but is based on a good rpg system with meaningful chargen and chardev. The ruleset of this system included in the game has been reviewed well by critics and players. Does it have mass market appeal to people that mistakenly believe they like rpgs? No, clearly not. But that doesn't mean anything as it is great pnp system.

the itemization has no real effect on the gameplay
This is just abject nonsense. I'm not sure you know what itemization means. This game had a very unique itemization system that had a huge effect not just in combat, but gameplay in toto.

the stat checks are fluffy and there is no resource management going on, etc.

I don't know what you mean by fluffy. I only hear girls say it, usually in conjunction with "comfy." I don't understand the "resource management" comment either. Compared to what game? XCom? Some 4x game? There were consumables, there were even restricted special and very powerful consumables based on chardev and stats.

Overall, it's a bad cRPG by any reasonable standard

Except any objective standard that compares and contrasts the gameplay included with other crpgs. I don't see how a reasonable person could state with a straight face PST had better chargen, chardev, combat, skill checks, itemization, flow and pace.
Story, art, quality of writing, emo-ness and edgy-ness of companions, etc, are all subjective.

and it shows that InXile can't make good cRPGs because they don't have what it takes.

I think WL2 DC and TToN shows inXIle has exactly what it takes to specifically make crpgs for crpg fans. Before WL2 I honestly thought inXIle could never make a real crpg, and then they proved me wrong. I think if anything inXile proved that retarded hipsters that actually don't like crpgs and are Pokeman and Twitcher loving posers actually don't like and don't want actual crpgs.

The game it's just wrong: it's a storyfagg cRPG with poor C&C and writing.

Saying it has bad writing is subjective. I disagree. Saying it has poor C&C is something that can be compared and contrasted to other crpgs, and when done fairly and objectively it is clear this is a false statement.
 

FeelTheRads

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For all the bad things this game does, C&C is not one of them.

Not that the usual C&C fags would know, since if it's not instantly telegraphed to them that they made a choice they don't consider it C&C.
 
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Sacred82

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I think WL2 DC and TToN shows inXIle has exactly what it takes to specifically make crpgs for crpg fans. Before WL2 I honestly thought inXIle could never make a real crpg, and then they proved me wrong. I think if anything inXile proved that retarded hipsters that actually don't like crpgs and are Pokeman and Twitcher loving posers actually don't like and don't want actual crpgs.

tbh, WL2 was a squad based strategy game, and due to balance issues really just a resource management game. TToN was the first InXile RPG.

the stat checks are fluffy and there is no resource management going on, etc.

I don't know what you mean by fluffy. I only hear girls say it, usually in conjunction with "comfy." I don't understand the "resource management" comment either. Compared to what game? XCom? Some 4x game? There were consumables, there were even restricted special and very powerful consumables based on chardev and stats.

due to how easy the battles are there's only one resource in TToN and that is gold. This is a really fucked up part of the game; it heavily incentivizes spending Effort like crazy. There's very little reason not to go for 90% or 100% success chance if you can. The only thing that can really happen to you in the game is getting stuck in a rut due to running out of stat points and not having enough money for resting, which funnily enough is the one big money sink in the game. Equipment is ridiculously cheap compared to how much you'll spend on resting (unless you conserve those stat points, in which case you'll simply end up with a lot of excess gold).
 
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Roqua

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tbh, WL2 was a squad based strategy game, and due to balance issues really just a resource management game. TToN was the first InXile RPG.

I highly disagree and am not able to even remotely grasp the thinking behind this statement.

due to how easy the battles are there's only one resource in TToN and that is gold. This is a really fucked up part of the game; it heavily incentivizes spending Effort like crazy. There's very little reason not to go for 90% or 100% success chance if you can. The only thing that can really happen to you in the game is getting stuck in a rut due to running out of stat points and not having enough money for resting, which funnily enough is the one big money sink in the game. Equipment is ridiculously cheap compared to how much you'll spend on resting (unless you conserve those stat points, in which case you'll simply end up with a lot of excess gold).

So, it should have had free rest anywhere like most popamole games? It probably should have, since baddies love games that are popamole with no mechanics of note and click and watch combat.

Please compare and contrast TToN against the super advanced systems used in the hivemind's favorite games PST, BG1/2, IWD 1/2, the Gold Box games, Dues Ex, Dragon Age, Kotors, Jade Empire, Pokeman, Metal Gear, Witcher, Clicker Hero, Toon Town, and Baby's First RPG so I can understand what exactly TToN did so bad and other games did so well.
 
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Sacred82

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tbh, WL2 was a squad based strategy game, and due to balance issues really just a resource management game. TToN was the first InXile RPG.

I highly disagree and am not able to even remotely grasp the thinking behind this statement.

Both money and vendor inventories are pretty limited. Try playing the game with all melee if you feel like it. If you conserve enough money and items, the only thing that's left is building a working squad, which isn't hard even though it allows for some experimentation, but you can cover all bases easily. Apart from that, Overwatch just fucking murders everything.

The most obvious example for my point is High Pool vs. Ag Center. Ag is so much worse a choice it ain't even funny.

Saving High Pool is super easy, just a bunch of dudes with guns and machetes, even Jackhammer isn't remotely tough compared to the phat douche in Ag. After that you can rest for free and take on the severely wounded Ag Center boss, like, as soon as you enter the place. Going Ag OTOH requires a very specific skill set, first of all. You definitely want a good safe cracker and lockpicker, a highly specialized medic (and possibly another medic for this one if you also slap the Misophobic quirk on him which I'd recommed), and well trained demolitions and perceptions guys. A good surgeon and brute forcer are also worth gold, but that's covered by Angela and Anna.

Not only is the Ag Center level FUCKING HUGE compared to Highpool, but the inability to leave it to stock up outside citadel really hurts here due to the sheer number of enemies. Speaking of enemies, you have strong melees that explode on death so melee isn't that great actually, and ranged enemies that stack a poison effect on you while fleeing on contact. Still not very hard, but way harder than the pushovers in High Pool. And if you just happen to rescue those surrounded employees, the one vendor in the level even closes shop until you get his fucking cure :lol: Not to mention the level boss is lethal in his unhurt state. It's just overall the absolutely inferior choice, and most of it comes down to resources.

due to how easy the battles are there's only one resource in TToN and that is gold. This is a really fucked up part of the game; it heavily incentivizes spending Effort like crazy. There's very little reason not to go for 90% or 100% success chance if you can. The only thing that can really happen to you in the game is getting stuck in a rut due to running out of stat points and not having enough money for resting, which funnily enough is the one big money sink in the game. Equipment is ridiculously cheap compared to how much you'll spend on resting (unless you conserve those stat points, in which case you'll simply end up with a lot of excess gold).

So, it should have had free rest anywhere like most popamole games? It probably should have, since baddies love games that are popamole with no mechanics of note and click and watch combat.

Are you retadred? It should give incentives to spend money on consumables and equipment instead of just saving up to rent a fucking bed, for starters. Secondly, the whole spend Effort like crazy thing should have been fixed. For example, a higher chance to restore pools for resolving tasks with lower success rates. Also the cost of resting should simply be lower, signalling to the player that they can spend Effort like crazy and rest all the time, but it's an inefficient use of their money. Right now, it's the ONLY sensible use for your money.

Please compare and contrast TToN against the super advanced systems used in the hivemind's favorite games PST, BG1/2, IWD 1/2, the Gold Box games, Dues Ex, Dragon Age, Kotors, Jade Empire, Pokeman, Metal Gear, Witcher, Clicker Hero, Toon Town, and Baby's First RPG so I can understand what exactly TToN did so bad and other games did so well.

Wut? I actually find TToN just fine, like I said, apart from the aforementioned quirks.
 

Roqua

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Wut? I actually find TToN just fine, like I said, apart from the aforementioned quirks.

I just don't get your points in relation to other popular games that did it pretty much exactly the same since the very beginning of rpgs.

Saying there were not enough items to buy as upgrades is a valid point I guess, but would also apply to ToEE and Blackguards and many other great games.

I also liked that the Ag Center and High Pool are very different and provide very different experiences. I had no issue with either, and thought both were great for different reasons. In Ag Center you can resupply from at least the wheelchair guy. I think the lady in charge also has shop options too after a point. But I can't remember so am not saying for certain. I am certain of the wheelchair ex-ranger being a shop guy.

I also love games that require good party building and punish dummies, so this could be another reason why I love the games I love and other people hate them and love cheesy, thoughtless easy shit.

My biggest criticism of WL2 DC is it allows for just too many levels. I clear most of the CA map before going into Hollywood, and around that time I am pretty much max main build. There is other shit that would benenfit the character, like taking other lines that give some nice perk bonuses, but the fact I can overbuild just takes away a lot of the fun the game had up until that point. I think it would have been a far better game with a lvl 20 level cap and people being forced to make difficult choices. I also think a four character cap would have been really beneficial to this too. Two main and two recruited, or four made and no recruited, etc. 6 characters would also allow you to cover everything plus without huge drawbacks even with a level 20 cap. With just four characters and a skill point level cap something like the asshole perk/trait/whatever its called has a completely different value.
 
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Sacred82

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Wut? I actually find TToN just fine, like I said, apart from the aforementioned quirks.

I just don't get your points in relation to other popular games that did it pretty much exactly the same since the very beginning of rpgs.

Really. It's a staple of RPG's that most of your gold is going to go into renting a fucking bed while all items you'd ever want can be had for a pittance.

:hmmm:
 

Roqua

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Wut? I actually find TToN just fine, like I said, apart from the aforementioned quirks.

I just don't get your points in relation to other popular games that did it pretty much exactly the same since the very beginning of rpgs.

Really. It's a staple of RPG's that most of your gold is going to go into renting a fucking bed while all items you'd ever want can be had for a pittance.

:hmmm:

No. Its a staple of rpgs going back to the beginning that they don't even include money sinks like restricted resting mechanics that cost a lot of money and you just have tons of gold and nothing to spend it on. This really can't be argued. I'm honestly having a hard time thinking of a game prior to this century where I didn't have tons of money and nothing to spend it on. Most games of this century do it still. The exceptions to this are rare and usually some super formulaic jrpg type shop system.

And I could be remembering wrong but I think there was a way for you to enter your mind and rest for free.

And I'm not saying I like this. I wish more games made gold far more valuable for far longer and had great and unique items to buy you were still saving for near end game. I wish upgrades after filling all your item slots became rare and tied to special loot and bosses or from rare and special vendors and cost way more gold than you have. I think BG2 and IWD 2 did a decent job of this I think.
 

Deleted Member 22431

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Since this is completely subjective I can't say you are wrong.
This a heavy writing game with C&C gameplay. If you belive that there are no standards to discuss the writing, any further discussion about this game with you is pointless. Have a nice day, sir!
 

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