Solution to the German problem

[thesheeep]

I dont critisze that germans remember their crimes in WW 2, im critiszing that its often done in a hypocritical and apologetic way.

Sadly, this is true.

Sometimes, it makes me sick, too. I mean... wtf? I am in no way responsible for what people in my country did 60 years ago.
I think some politicians and other people just feel like they are expected to behave like you mentioned.

Oh, and.. yeah.. we don't want to be associated with Bavarians
It's no coincidence that it spells so similar to Barbarians.

Erm...
So, why do I feel I can associate perfectly fine with what you're stating there but then again think Talesfromthecrypt got it wrong?

Apparently I misred some things, then?

Yup. Maybe you are strange

 

[Nedrah]

Entirely possible.

Edit:

Coming to think of it, maybe it's equally strange to show "Yes, you are right, please throw some more shit at us, we deserve it." as an initial reaction. What do I know, I'm no psychologist.

 

[dagorkan]

EDIT: and the Argentinians too, but they aren't European, fortunately.

They're called Argentines, you moron.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Erm...
So, why do I feel I can associate perfectly fine with what you're stating there but then again think Talesfromthecrypt got it wrong?

Apparently I misred some things, then?

Thats because Riso and theSheep didnt get what I wrote in the slightest, theyre just dumbfucks I dont want to be associated with by having them agreeing with me.
Riso, I dont care what your fucking grandpa though when he was invading other countries for the Fuhrer.

No, we are not appologetic about it, because WE DIDN'T FUCKING DO ANYTHING WRONG. Our ancestors did. We don't want to be pestered with that crap all the time any more than GB wants to be with colonization efforts gone wrong or the US with gathering some "Lebensraum" by genociding natives. It's ok, you didn't do it, it was grandpa's grandpa, now let's get the fuck over it.

Trying not to fall into the same traps that our ancestors did should not be used against us, and has a lot to do with why we may sometimes appear overly critical of the US bringing peace and democracy to the savage lands and like to tear ourselves apart over stuff that other nations don't spend that much thought on.

I mean apologetic as in "now, we werent so evil back then, others are as evil as us!" rather then in "we apologize for what we have done".

Lets look at the second paragraph you wrote: This is exactly what Im talking about. You assume you have some kind of moral high ground over the rest of the world, because you (or your ancestors) already did the mistakes, and now you have to lecture everyone else about it.
The problem is: The US, its ideology, its goals, its means, aren't comparable to Nazi germany, nor is Isreal. (A study from some 1 or 2 years ago showed that 60 percent of the germans thought Isreal is fighting a extermination war against the arabs similiar to the Nazis).
You arent thoughtful when debating whether the evil US should move out of southern Afghanistan or if you can send troops there or whether Isreal failed to draw its lessons from the holocaust. You arent thoughtful when youre throwing around stupid shit like "völkerrechtswiedrig", youre being hypocritical idiots.

 

[dagorkan]

The fundamental problem with Germans is that they hate Germany. Like the problem with the French is that they hate France. Major political events like revolutions and militarily taking on the most powerful continent in the world single-handed leaves traces.

Japan and China are also fucked. Too much history. India doesn't have an identity.

America is the only successful major power because they're confident and believe in themselves. They don't have any psychological or ideological scars.

note:
Hatred for your country isn't immediately obvious and doesn't prevent you being jingoistic (usually jingoism is the symptom). Often people will be nationalistic but for wrong reasons, being proud of something that (deep down) goes against everything that's good about their country. Patriotism is based on love for the positive things your country stands for, perverted nationalism is a denial of the positive and promotion of a fake identity.

Modern mainstream Germany is proud of being 'tolerant', 'moderate' and 'practical', ie accepting the disease of liberalism and political correctness in reaction to the nazi past. Liberalism is just as poisonous as fascism.

 

[Nedrah]

Ah, I see where you are coming from, now.

Maybe it appears as lecturing from the outside, I couldn't really tell, it's obviously not my perespective. But why do you feel that it's coming from a stance of assumed superiority? I perceive our bitching about invading countries for shady reasons and things like that more as "Uhm, you know, this appears an awfully lot like what grandpa did a few years ago. Didn't do him much good, too - you might want to doublecheck you're really sure what you're doing there". You, on the other hand, seem to only hear "Hay, we are superior because we already fucked up, now will you please listen to us for once, dumbfucks".

I don't think that the situations of nazi-germany on the rise and Bush-US are as incomparable as you say. Perceived limited ressources, a feeling of being threatened from the outside, times of economical insecurity for the individual - the list goes on. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not saying that the US today have that much in common with Nazi-germany. I'm saying that it never hurts all that much to learn from history whenever there are enough similar factors involved in a past and current situation to justify the comparison.

Keep that evil US crap to the people who think like that. I'm not criticizing the US and it's people at all, as I think it's a great Nation in principle. I think the current administration is fucked up and so is the way that the public is manipulated by the media - but so do I think about our current german administration (not to be switched up with the opposition, which I support in parts)

 

[thesheeep]

Well, since nobody seems to really get what you are writing, maybe, but only maybe, you are the problem here, not being able to put over what you want to....

Anyway...

Lets look at the second paragraph you wrote: This is exactly what Im talking about. You assume you have some kind of moral high ground over the rest of the world, because you (or your ancestors) already did the mistakes, and now you have to lecture everyone else about it.
The problem is: The US, its ideology, its goals, its means, aren't comparable to Nazi germany, nor is Isreal. (A study from some 1 or 2 years ago showed that 60 percent of the germans thought Isreal is fighting a extermination war against the arabs similiar to the Nazis).

WTF?
Nobody is trying to convinve other countries not to make the same mistakes Germany did in the 30s and 40s. This isn't necessary, as no country is doing anything really similar to it.

And please, refrain from any studies that only show one thing: that the broad masses are dumb. The broad masses are dumb in every country.

You arent thoughtful when debating whether the evil US should move out of southern Afghanistan or if you can send troops there or whether Isreal failed to draw its lessons from the holocaust, youre being hypocritical idiots.

This is so much the opposite of true that even "false" wouldn't be enough to describe it.
We are actually TOO thoughtful, sometimes.
And.. the evil US? lol ^^

 

[Nedrah]

America is the only successful major power because they're confident and believe in themselves. They don't have any psychological or ideological scars.

note:
Hatred for your country isn't immediately obvious and doesn't prevent you being jingoistic (usually jingoism is the symptom). Often people will be nationalistic but for wrong reasons, being proud of something that (deep down) goes against everything that's good about their country. Patriotism is based on love for the positive things your country stands for, perverted nationalism is a denial of the positive and promotion of a fake identity.

Modern mainstream Germany is proud of being 'tolerant', 'moderate' and 'practical', ie accepting the disease of liberalism and political correctness in reaction to the nazi past. Liberalism is just as poisonous as fascism.

Yeah, a typical german lecturing about their own superiority from a hypocritic point of view right there.

Oh, wait

 

[thesheeep]

America is the only successful major power because they're confident and believe in themselves. They don't have any psychological or ideological scars.

lol. This is sarcarsm or irony, isn't it?

Thanks @ Nedrah for pointing that out. I didn't even notice.

 

[dagorkan]

See? What a typical German reaction. You know I'm right but you're poisoned by the disease of liberalism - "You can't say that! All countries have flaws, you can't judge, etc". Well yeah, but some countries have many more flaws than others. And the fact is America probably has the best hope for the future, it will grow stronger while Europe cannibalizes itself in self-loathing, endless debates and politically correct posturing.

I agree Bush and the Neocon regime are not a positive element, but that will soon be over.

 

[Nedrah]

I rest my case and would like to refer the kind reader to my initial statements for further reference

 

[Sir_Brennus]

I think banning all the German posters would be a step forward to revert this forum to a more acceptable state.

Although I'm German (Bavarian actually) I am inclined to agree. I don't even visit German forums anymore.

Yeah, I had my doubts about you, not acting like a proper German that's why I deliberately left you out of the list.

Let me amend my proposal. It only applies to non-Bavarian Germans, and other European assholes (Slovenians, Estonians)... And to teenage American libertarians from Texas.

Okay, fine idea, but how do you know that Claw is from motherfucking-backwoods-state-where-a-semi-fascist-party-governs-for-40-years-now?

Not that I could prove something, but his behaviour is nearly as such as TftC is, so ...

Maybe he is an Impostor :shock:

 

[thesheeep]

See? What a typical German reaction. You know I'm right but you're poisoned by the disease of liberalism - "You can't say that! All countries have flaws, you can't judge, etc". Well yeah, but some countries have many more flaws than others. And the fact is America probably has the best hope for the future, it will grow stronger while Europe cannibalizes itself in self-loathing, endless debates and politically correct posturing.

Uhuh. Sorry.. I totally forgot that.

 

[JarlFrank]

Interesting discussion going on, but I shall reply to the original post now:

Sheek, shut up before we'll blitzkrieg your country.


Also, to my fellow Germans, Bavarians are not as bad as you make them seem. They're some weird happy Oktoberfest people with funny beards and goofy hats, eating Weisswurst and drinking Weizenbier the whole day, and they got nice mountains. Bavaria is a nice place to spend your holidays and have fun. Of course, it's a completely different culture to the rest of Germany and they're very wacked out, but they're fun. More like Austrians than Germans I think, especially in the southern parts.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

A funny thing happened to me while I was in Munich (Muenchen) over the summer.

I was buying the new Harry Potter book from a German bookstore and my friend, who was standing in the queue next to me, was saying how he feels sorry that the Germans don't get their own translation of the book straight away.

I was starting to tense up of course because I was worried he would say something dumb, and I knew that since most of the Germans in the bookstore were young, they'd speak good English and understand what we were saying.

True enough, two girls in front of us turned around and looked rather insulted. "We are German and we understand English," they said. It was a very awkward moment. We tried to joke it off with them but they didn't seem to get it.

For some stupid reason we decided to go to a really expensive restaurant, where the waiters seemed quite surprised and flustered to greet us. We were four English students and looked rather poor (because we were) and they didn't seem used to the situation. The food wasn't that great, the cabbage had way too much horse radish or whatever they put on it, and the pork was rather tasteless.

But it was a good few days in Munich. We went to the big beer hall there, and got served beautiful German beer in LITRES! I tried the dunkelbeer and also another type which escapes my memory. We got served by wenches, ie. women with heaving bosoms and traditional outfits, and there were stag parties and such with guys decked out in leiderhosen, as well as big groups of girls too, everyone was downing beer and getting merry. There were also bands playing music, it was a great atmosphere. I was feeling a bit tipsy by the time we went back to the hotel, and my friend Anthony was totally pissed.

Our hotel was right next to a traditional German market too, and the pretzels there were delicious. Though I got ripped off buying fresh juice which I downed in 5 seconds. There were also women selling honey wine and mead and stuff... I didn't feel the urge to try it.

It was the first time I visited Deutschland and it definitely won't be the last.

 

[spacemoose]

honey wine and mead and stuff... I didn't feel the urge to try it.

you should have tried it, its great

 

[JarlFrank]

honey wine and mead and stuff... I didn't feel the urge to try it.

you should have tried it, its great

Yes, it totally is!
You should really try out mead one day.
I like it even more than beer.

 

[MetalCraze]

Despite their role in WW 2 there is no hatred against them, not even from Russians

yeah. sure.

 

[JarlFrank]

Despite their role in WW 2 there is no hatred against them, not even from Russians

yeah. sure.

No, really, how can anyone not like those cool guys with the black uniforms and the cool hats with the skull on it?

 

[Nicolai]

Despite their role in WW 2 there is no hatred against them, not even from Russians

yeah. sure.

No, really, how can anyone not like those cool chicks with the black uniforms and the cool hats with the skull on it?

Horrible creatures, I avoid them whenever I can.

 

[abstract]

Why don't we just ban all the dumbfucks?

 

[aweigh]

so sayeth the dumbfuck

 

[Claw]

Yeah, I had my doubts about you, not acting like a proper German that's why I deliberately left you out of the list.

Aww thanks, that's one of the nicest things someone's ever said about me.

 

[Slylandro]

True. One incident I read about, where about 30 Swedish people looked on and did nothing while immigrants publicly raped a Swedish girl in a swimming pool perfectly shows how Europeans are no longer able to confront those that challenge them.

I think you're overweighting the ethnic identity of the perpetrators in this case. I've read about incidents similar to this many, many times, and the perpetrators don't have to be immigrants or anyone of a different ethnic identity. The phenomenon is known as the bystander effect and is quite powerful. In an article I read about two years back, there was a man who was literally dying in NY and nobody bothered to stop and at least call their cell. Everyone assumed someone else would do something, and the result was that nobody did jack. It's silly to think that the people surrounding the girl would somehow think "OMGZ she's getting raped, but they're immigrants so its OK." What you inferred above is analogous to seeing a black guy get beaten by the police and then concluding that obviously the police are beating him because he is a black guy, and not because, say, he's a criminal resisting arrest. Ockham's razor points to a simpler, obvious explanation.

 

[aweigh]

Seinfield went to jail because of the bystander effect.