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Sooo i bought VR (PSVR) for PC

Perkel

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Got Half Life 2 working in VR... 5 hours went like nothing. and i always thought HL2 was mediacore.
Hopefully Opposing Force will be working with vr.

So far in therms of best experience HL2 takes the crown. 3D effect might not be the best but decoupling camera movement from head movement is great thing.

GTA5 really is fucking great in VR especially with my G25 wheel.


Proper 3D is imo game changer. I spend like 10 hours playing Quake 2 because just how good 3D makes this game. I think i need to see NuDoom. It has nice performance so maybe VR will be working well.


So far 0 problems from health standpoint, no headakes etc. Even when i play something like No Man Sky in VR with ultra low FPS it is annoying and not headake inducing.
 

Perkel

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DAAAAMN. Got Dragon's Dogma working perfectly with geometric 3D (aka the best 3D).

HL2 is nothing compared to DD with 3D. There are slight glitches with shadows cast by lamps but overall it works amazing.
What i most love about this is that beast are fucking huuuuuge. I mean they were huge but in 3D there is vast ocean of difference.

Pretty much right now jumping from game to game to look what is working and what is not working.
Since DD is using MT Framework engine i think all MT framework games will work in VR. Beyonetta, Resident Evil 4/5 and few other.

Bought Frontier Elite key. I heard it is amazing in VR.
 

Perkel

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Ok soo after few days of Using PSVR i can say that this is one of the best things you can get for games. It is relatively cheap (compared to Oculus/Vive), despite early voes with pixelization after few titles i realized that it has 0 to do with PSVR and all to do with internal rendering resolution. Unlike normal monitor you need to have at least 1,5 or twice resolution compared to screen you are using in VR.

So like in Assetto Corsa case. Normally 1080p is pixelated as fuck (like you would play 640-480 res) but when you switch resolution to 4k there is 0 aliasing and aside from slight blurr coming from PSVR itself you can play as much as you want without any issue.

Biggest problem though is performance. Without good GPU like RX480-GTX1060 no one should touch it even with 10 foot stick.
1. Resolution is huge issue. Sure you can set quake2 to 8k as you want but setting GTA5 to 4k is different matter even if you set everything to low.
2. Framerate. Anything below 60fps is just annoying to watch. Unlike normal monitors you can actually see that because you can see characters animations being stuttery. IDK how it works but you can see difference in frames of character animation.

So those 2 factors mean that without strong GPU you will be in world of pain.


Hmm i wonder if there is Cities Skylines profile for VorpX. That should look amazing...
Stalker + Misery modd..... Choices... choices...
 

Perkel

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HOLY SHIT. I totally forgot Space Engine now has native Vive support (which means PSVR support as well).
Downloading...
 
Self-Ejected

buru5

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I can't wait to see the level of buyer's remorse within the next month or so. Keep me posted.
 

Dexter

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Ok soo after few days of Using PSVR i can say that this is one of the best things you can get for games. It is relatively cheap (compared to Oculus/Vive)
Nobody should get a PSVR for PC, not only will they have to emulate it being another headset, but they'll lack controllers that are native to VR and emulate hand-movements (e.g. Vive Controllers/Oculus Touch) and the games that were specifically developed and tested with them in mind, and they'll lack a proper Positional tracking solution like the Oculus camera or Vive Lighthouse (with which you can move around a pre-determined space and have your movement be translated to the virtual 3D space 1:1) including crouching down, jumping or whatever. You still haven't said if you have Positional tracking and/or are using the EyeToy cameras for it? And the PSVR is by far the worst in doing this, since it isn't precise and there will be jumps and short freezes.

Biggest problem though is performance. Without good GPU like RX480-GTX1060 no one should touch it even with 10 foot stick.
1. Resolution is huge issue. Sure you can set quake2 to 8k as you want but setting GTA5 to 4k is different matter even if you set everything to low.
2. Framerate. Anything below 60fps is just annoying to watch. Unlike normal monitors you can actually see that because you can see characters animations being stuttery. IDK how it works but you can see difference in frames of character animation.

So those 2 factors mean that without strong GPU you will be in world of pain.
I'd recommend at least a GTX 1070, better a GTX 1080 for properly experiencing VR without much performance issues, and even there you'll have advantages with the Vive or Rift. Normally you'll want to reach 90FPS for fluid movement and headtracking and the SDKs and drivers for both the Oculus Rift and HTC Vive include optimizations that I don't know you'll get while using other headsets. Oculus is using Asynchronous Timewarp:
It works by distorting the previous frame to match the more recent head pose, and while it will help you smooth out a few dropped frames now and then, it’s not an excuse to run at less than 60 frames per second all the time. If you see black flickering bars at the edges of your vision when you shake your head, that indicates that your game is running slowly enough that TimeWarp doesn’t have a recent enough frame to fill in the blanks.

The Vive also supports Adaptive Quality, which can change Target rendering resolution and detail quality on the fly to keep the FPS high.
 
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Perkel

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Sorry to burst your bubble but a lot of what you said is just wrong.

1. Motion controlers are shit. Universally. Why ? Because you need to move your arms, which means it is tiring after a while which means that no one will care about it after a while.
2. Room scale. Same exact thing as motion controls. All 5 people who have space for room space and like to look like fucking idiots should be worried imo because like motion controllers it won't work and soon everyone will forget about it because A) it requires a lot of action B) most of people don't have huge spaces in their living rooms
3. Positional tracking. I agree it is nice thing but outside of those "indie experimental totally cool" games it has almost no use. If you play normal games like Dragon's Dogma soon you will forget that it even exist.
4. Most of VR exlclusive games (those with controllers) are shit. I don't want to play some indie masturbation about VR like job simulator I want to play real games like Dragon's Dogma. Which means most of VIVE features has over PSVR are needless.
5. You can actually get positional tracking and VR controlers working by using Moves and cameras though right now it is still buggy (beta software)

PSVR is EMULATING VIVE which means that all vive does like frame interpolation adaptives etc. is now used by PSVR.

From what i see though PSVR has 120hz while VIVE only 90 which is huge difference for VR
BUT PSVR has lower res and doesn't do flashing frames together which means that if you move fast head you can see double image sligtly on edges of objects.

Biggest difference is that PSVR costs me around 260$ while VIVE has controlers for those "oh so great" vr exclusive games, slightly higher res and working out of the box and costs like 800$+ which is simply too expensive.

One issue though i have is that PSVR software stack i am using is not yet mature enough and i need to reconect PSVR almost always after playing some games. PSVR was released like half a year ago so things will improve A LOT by end of the year.


My main reason to buy PSVR was to get headtracking for racing games (even without 3D mind you) so from start i had low expectations.
 

Perkel

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I can't wait to see the level of buyer's remorse within the next month or so. Keep me posted.

Why ? IT works well. Software stack is improving by almost every week. Soon positional tracking and move controlers will be good enough to use it without issues.

Imo most important part like i said in post above was headtracking for racing games and it works so even if rest of features wouldn't work i would still be satisfied just by headtracking alone.

On other hand what blown me away completely was 3D effect. It completely changes how games look to point where Quake 2 in 3D looks better than Crysis 3 on max. Obviously textures animations are shit compared to C3 but 3D effect gives you sense of scale, for first time you can see how something is big and "feel" it.

FNV was the biggest surprize. I mean even on max settings it looks old but with 3D it changes completely. When i first used 3D in it i stared like 5 minutes on Goodspring Saloon because i couldn't believe how different it looked in 3D because unlike before now it was actually BIG building and it felt real as if next to me when i got close to it.

IT is very hard naturally to convey what i am feeling when playing 3D but experience is definitely worth it.

3D for some games is literally game changer. I can't wait for example to replay Thief or Thief 2. Unfortunutelly software stack i am using still doesn't have proper support for Thief engine. Those games with 3D should be amazing.
 

Perkel

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Huh i have found that actually move controllers work well as replacement for VIVE controllers:



I already have on ps eye (from ps2 days) and one move). I will buy new ps eye (cost like nothing used) and borrow another move and will test in maybe. This will also give me positional tracking for PSVR on PC.
 

Perkel

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Also it seems like LG will be releasing their Steam VR by end of this year. It will be slight upgrade over VIVE (more resolution)

 

Perkel

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Ok next game working super well. Dark Souls 2. It works really really really really well.
 

Achilles

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How about motion sickness? Traditional movement in first person games is supposed to make want to vomit all over the place, that's why so many games use teleportation. Have you experienced anything like that?

Second question. Have you tried Google Earth VR with your headset?
 

Dexter

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Sorry to burst your bubble but a lot of what you said is just wrong.

1. Motion controlers are shit. Universally. Why ? Because you need to move your arms, which means it is tiring after a while which means that no one will care about it after a while.
2. Room scale. Same exact thing as motion controls. All 5 people who have space for room space and like to look like fucking idiots should be worried imo because like motion controllers it won't work and soon everyone will forget about it because A) it requires a lot of action B) most of people don't have huge spaces in their living rooms
3. Positional tracking. I agree it is nice thing but outside of those "indie experimental totally cool" games it has almost no use. If you play normal games like Dragon's Dogma soon you will forget that it even exist.
4. Most of VR exlclusive games (those with controllers) are shit. I don't want to play some indie masturbation about VR like job simulator I want to play real games like Dragon's Dogma. Which means most of VIVE features has over PSVR are needless.
5. You can actually get positional tracking and VR controlers working by using Moves and cameras though right now it is still buggy (beta software)

From what i see though PSVR has 120hz while VIVE only 90 which is huge difference for VR
BUT PSVR has lower res and doesn't do flashing frames together which means that if you move fast head you can see double image sligtly on edges of objects.
Brah, you have no idea what you are talking about. :lol: At least try something before you knock it. And indeed you can have both Positional tracking and tracked Controllers on your PSVR as I previously said, but it's the beggars version.

Reminder, this is you one day apart:
Simply put resolution is absolute garbage in 3D mode. 1000x1080 per eye is simply not enough. Remember playing games in 240x160 ? Yes ? Because that is how it feels. I think with 4k per eye we will have proper VR headsets. Until then you shouldn't touch it even with 10 foot pole. Be it Oculus or Vive i don't think they can fix those issues.

Even when you don't use 3D mode and you have 1080p screen for both eyes it is still not enough as you can hardly read any text.

FOV is nice but unfortunately not worthy enough to play games in 240p.

Probably will sell that piece of crap.
What VorpX does on other hand it doesn't warp image to your FOV. It means that FOV is worse (something like 70) but image is REALLY good meaning no pixelation and what is more important 3D effect in this mode completely and utterly blows away those shitty warped images.

Sure it doesn't feel "immersive as full FOV view" but seriously i take superior quality and image shaped as box that that pixelated mess.

Also with my head movement i point my gun which is awesome and waaaaaaay better than using mouse.

Right now it feels like amazing investement imo.
Seriously i don't have a fucking clue why those developers behind Oculus/PSVR/VIVE don't simply do what VorpX does.

Biggest difference is that PSVR costs me around 260$ while VIVE has controlers for those "oh so great" vr exclusive games, slightly higher res and working out of the box and costs like 800$+ which is simply too expensive.
Oculus had a Sale for the Rift + Oculus Touch for $399 during Summer: https://www.vrfocus.com/2017/07/oculus-announce-rift-touch-price-drop-to-399-for-summer-sale/ and the Vive was also like $100 Off, although it is definitely on the Expensive side and might indeed be underpriced by LG or other manufacturers soon licensing Valve's VR technology. I wouldn't expect much of an actual "upgrade" in technology any time soon though, more sidegrades. Before 4K screens for VR arrive and become viable, coupling that with possible other technology they are working on, 4K needs to actually be more Standard on the PC side of things at least, and normal GPUs need to be able to render a dual 4K image fluidly @90FPS or above. I'd say at least another two or three graphics card generations from now possibly.
 

Perkel

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How about motion sickness? Traditional movement in first person games is supposed to make want to vomit all over the place, that's why so many games use teleportation. Have you experienced anything like that?

Second question. Have you tried Google Earth VR with your headset?

0 problems for me. 3D effect is something you need to get used to and i got 3DS for 2 years so i got used to it really well so i can even input drastic 3D values and still play fine.

Secondly i think problem is completely overblown by people who normally get sick from anything like car or even playing FPS games. Like with everything you never hear people who don't have problems.

I think also that most opinions are formulated on brief contant with hardware. So dude gets his VR to test for 15 minutes or 30 or day and then he formulates opinion. Where getting used to process can take longer than that.

I tried No man's Sky for 2 hours and framerate in that game with VR is like 20 FPS and never had any problems. I played it for that long precisely because i wanted to test low FPS gaming and if this could cause me motion sickness.

2. No i am yet to try it. Right now i am testing what works and what doesn't in VR. Games usually devide into 3 categories.

- those who don't work at all like Age of Decadence
- those who work but 3D is barely noticeable and usually headtracking works (like asetto corsa)
- those who works and 3D effect is mindblowing like half life 2, dark souls 2, Quake 2, Fallout New Vegas

from what i gathered there are 2 kinds of 3D effect. One is done simply be reading Z buffer which is super fast (few frames difference) but 3D effect is low and those who use Geometry check which gives absolutely amazing effect but has huge impact. I use VorpX and for some games i can switch between them.

Still Games situation is improving week by week as software gets updated. Soon most of normal games new and old will be playable in VR.
 
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Perkel

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Brah, you have no idea what you are talking about. :lol: At least try something before you knock it. And indeed you can have both Positional tracking and tracked Controllers on your PSVR as I previously said, but it's the beggars version.

It is not beggars version. Properly calibrated it works same way VIVE or Oculus ones. PS4 tracking on other hand is mediacore as PS4 doesn't have enough power to use proper algorithms to track it. Second difference is OUT OF BOX so you don't need to fiddle with software around.

Reminder, this is you one day apart:

And you missed second or third day when i said that i take it back. Didn't know that you need to increase almost twice internal resolution of games to get aliasing free games. What is left is slight blurriness but not on level where it impedes playing game.

Oculus had a Sale for the Rift + Oculus Touch for $399 during Summer: https://www.vrfocus.com/2017/07/oculus-announce-rift-touch-price-drop-to-399-for-summer-sale/ and the Vive was also like $100 Off, although it is definitely on the Expensive side and might indeed be underpriced by LG or other manufacturers soon licensing Valve's VR technology. I wouldn't expect much of an actual "upgrade" in technology any time soon though, more sidegrades. Before 4K screens for VR arrive and become viable, coupling that with possible other technology they are working on, 4K needs to actually be more Standard on the PC side of things at least, and normal GPUs need to be able to render a dual 4K image fluidly @90FPS or above. I'd say at least another two or three graphics card generations from now possibly.

399$ is MSRP price so without TAX (in mycase 23%) and without import tax (who knows how much) and without DELIVERY cost which should be around 10-20-30$. So you are looking at minimum 500$ for new.

I bought used for 1200zl which is about 260$ for everything with no cost added. In Poland used oculus goes for 2500zl while VIVe minimum 3200zl. Didn't even check price of new ones to much for me.

As for 4k. Today even mediacore card can do it. You just don't set everything on ultra. The notion that you need 1080 minimum to play at 4k is completely false. You just need to lower few details and voile you double sometimes triple your framerate.

Finally from my personal experience i noticed that i don't need actually 90FPS. Even 60 will do just fine (though you need to get lock to not get framepacing issues).[/QUOTE]
 

Dexter

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It is not beggars version. Properly calibrated it works same way VIVE or Oculus ones. PS4 tracking on other hand is mediacore as PS4 doesn't have enough power to use proper algorithms to track it. Second difference is OUT OF BOX so you don't need to fiddle with software around.
The EyeToy cameras weren't meant/built for accurately tracking objects through 3D space, they were more of a gimmick used for pretending to hit objects on the screen during the days of PlayStation 2, as you said they cost like nothing and aren't precise, as such they jitter extremely, which is very noticeable on it both trying to track your head through space and your controllers jittering and shaking around. Even the Kinect or KinectV2 isn't "good enough" for such a task, since it's limited to 30FPS.

Finally from my personal experience i noticed that i don't need actually 90FPS. Even 60 will do just fine (though you need to get lock to not get framepacing issues).
You're not having the "full VR experience" as it is right now, you're just using it as a 3DOF display kit to look around in 3D space from a fixed perspective, being able to turn your head left/right and up/down, basically what the Development Kit 1 from Oculus already did (albeit at a lower resolution). That's impressive enough as it is, but if you want a fluid experience being able to track your head movement in real time and moving through a space, as well as being able to accurately point and shoot something using controllers resembling a gun or similar you absolutely need 90+FPS, since it should feel natural and every bit of lag impedes that and tells your Proprioception senses that something is wrong. And as it is now, you don't know what you're missing, since even the Positional Tracking provided by the Development Kit 2 was a huge step forward in how impressive the technology was. Being able to lean in on objects and inspect them in detail, picking something up and looking around/under it or similar as you would do in real life is an entirely different experience, even in very simplistic demos, you'll probably be surprised what a difference it makes:


As it is right now, you're likely using VR in an entirely different way from the majority of users that are doing VR and are e.g. mainly playing titles like these designed with it in mind for which you don't have the proper hardware:




VorpX is just a Workaround/Hack injecting itself into the rendering pipeline that doesn't always work right, requires a lot of fiddling with settings and depth perception and doesn't provide actual 3D (e.g. with two separate views rendered) for all games and will also require fiddling around with things like controls or UI. Just try some game that has an actual VR version and a VorpX hack and you should be able to tell the difference in both quality and user experience.

Btw. if you're still looking for things to do, there's a Nintendo Virtual Boy Emulator if you want to see what they referred to as "Virtual Reality" back in the day and how stupid some of the people comparing the two are: https://github.com/braindx/vbjin-ovr


And there are also Wii (DolphinVR) and some other Emulators for playing those games in VR, since they have full control of the rendering pipeline it usually also ends up looking better than some of the injection hacks for PC: https://dolphinvr.wordpress.com/

http://www.pcgamer.com/nintendo-games-can-work-shockingly-well-in-dolphin-vr/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jsu21Q2Z5Y
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Rpgsaurus Rex

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The prospect of VR becoming a good thing is far scarier than it turning out to be vaporware.

It's like that thing P. K. Dick was talking about.
 

Perkel

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The prospect of VR becoming a good thing is far scarier than it turning out to be vaporware.

It's like that thing P. K. Dick was talking about.

I don't think this VR is proper VR. Proper VR will be something like matrix while this VR is just glorified monitor with 2 dildo attachements.

Though when proper VR hits civilization will stop existing. Since sex basically runs whole word, who will try to achieve something when you can hook up to VR and have sex with any girl you want.
 

Perkel

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The EyeToy cameras weren't meant/built for accurately tracking objects through 3D space, they were more of a gimmick used for pretending to hit objects on the screen during the days of PlayStation 2, as you said they cost like nothing and aren't precise, as such they jitter extremely, which is very noticeable on it both trying to track your head through space and your controllers jittering and shaking around. Even the Kinect or KinectV2 isn't "good enough" for such a task, since it's limited to 30FPS.

Actually they were. Even in PS2 days they could track movement in 3D. Again it doesn't matter if something was build for something or not. You can just load youtube and see that it works currently correctly if set up correctly. PS4 tracking issues are mostly due to shitty algorythm used. PSEYE cameras also capture @ 120hz not 60hz or 30hz. I will either way testing it myself soon as i already have one PSeye so i need another one and borrow two moves from friend so i will have both controllers and 3d head positioning.


You're not having the "full VR experience" as it is right now you're just using it as a 3DOF display kit to look around in 3D space from a fixed perspective, being able to turn your head left/right and up/down, basically what the Development Kit 1 from Oculus already did (albeit at a lower resolution). That's impressive enough as it is, but if you want a fluid experience being able to track your head movement in real time and moving through a space, as well as being able to accurately point and shoot something using controllers resembling a gun or similar you absolutely need 90+FPS

Sorry but you are talking bollocks here. Secondly PSVR is 120hz not 90hz. So from pure hz perspective it is above VIVE or OCULUS.
Third your idea of VR is just empty PR. VR is basically ability to look around with 3D in virtual world. Dildo controlers you mention are nice and do enable new types of games but like i said before they are gimmicks that will went away with time same way motion controls in Wii did. And no you don't need 90fps. I tried playing at various framerates from below 30 to 120 and when you hit about 40-50fps everything becomes fluid enough to have good gameplay.

Your whole "you are not getting full vr" is just what you believe vr is. Most of normal games you play do not need room scale nor 3d head positioning and guess what they won't need that in future too because it is absolutely useless feature same as room scale. It is fine for arcade centers when you go with group of people though.

, since it should feel natural and every bit of lag impedes that and tells your Proprioception senses that something is wrong. And as it is now, you don't know what you're missing, since even the Positional Tracking provided by the Development Kit 2 was a huge step forward in how impressive the technology was. Being able to lean in on objects and inspect them in detail, picking something up and looking around/under it or similar as you would do in real life is an entirely different experience, even in very simplistic demos, you'll probably be surprised what a difference it makes:

Ain't buying it. IT just new controls nothing more nothing less. Maybe if you are new into computers or gaming it would be amazing but not for me.

For me what matter are games. Not some indie crap about fiddling with cup of cofe. Those kind of games are exact same crap motion controllers managed to get when they were invented. Where are they now ? Nowhere. Because those were shit games that fun went away with interest in new controllers.

As it is right now, you're likely using VR in an entirely different way from the majority of users that are doing VR and are e.g. mainly playing titles like these designed with it in mind for which you don't have the proper hardware:

Sorry but i am not retarded to play some crappy indie hold a coffe games which is what 99% of VR games currently are.
I want to play games like ELITE where i am in fucking ship flying around.



, since it should feel natural and every bit of lag impedes that and tells your Proprioception senses that something is wrong. And as it is now, you don't know what you're missing, since even the Positional Tracking provided by the Development Kit 2 was a huge step forward in how impressive the technology was. Being able to lean in on objects and inspect them in detail, picking something up and looking around/under it or similar as you would do in real life is an entirely different experience, even in very simplistic demos, you'll probably be surprised what a difference it makes:

Ain't buying it. IT just new controls nothing more nothing less. Maybe if you are new into computers or gaming it would be amazing but not for me.

For me what matter are games. Not some indie crap about fiddling with cup of cofe. Those kind of games are exact same crap motion controllers managed to get when they were invented. Where are they now ? Nowhere. Because those were shit games that fun went away with interest in new controllers.

On other hand Porn in VR when i can stroke or spank some bitch as could be something that could be worthwhile with those controllers.

VorpX is just a Workaround/Hack injecting itself into the rendering pipeline that doesn't always work right, requires a lot of fiddling with settings and depth perception and doesn't provide actual 3D (e.g. with two separate views rendered) for all games and will also require fiddling around with things like controls or UI. Just try some game that has an actual VR version and a VorpX hack and you should be able to tell the difference in both quality and user experience.

So ? Why does it matter how something works. Does it make games 3D ? yes. Does it give you headtracking ? yes. (with positional). And no VorpX DOES give you two separate images. Hell it works based on SteamVR in first place so if it didn't have two separate images it wouldn't work at all with headsets. Maybe you should pay 40$ and try for yourself first before speaking about it.

I guarantee you that Dragon's Dogma in it will blow you away much more so than any coffe cup simulator

GTA5 in VR is better than almost any crap you can show me because unlike those games this is actual game and not some retarded cup simulator.

Yes VorpX is a bit messy but again once it works it works and you play 100+h of something.

Btw. if you're still looking for things to do, there's a Nintendo Virtual Boy Emulator if you want to see what they referred to as "Virtual Reality" back in the day and how stupid some of the people comparing the two are: https://github.com/braindx/vbjin-ovr


I don't see a reason to even look at it. History of VR doesn't interest me. What interest me is what i can play today in Vr.

And there are also Wii (DolphinVR) and some other Emulators for playing those games in VR, since they have full control of the rendering pipeline it usually also ends up looking better than some of the injection hacks for PC: https://dolphinvr.wordpress.com/

http://www.pcgamer.com/nintendo-games-can-work-shockingly-well-in-dolphin-vr/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jsu21Q2Z5Y
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Oh fuck i forgot about Dolphin. Need to check it. Still it isn't any different from VorpX. There are different methods to get 3D working and vorpX provide them all according to what game could do. Best one is geometry type which basically is best 3D you can get and frankly from games tested in Steam store none of them could hold candle to Dragon's Dogma with geometry type 3D.
 
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Perkel

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Just tried Space Engine in 3D. Holy fuck another thing that i will spend 100s of hours.
 

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