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SpellForce 3 Reforced + Soul Harvest & Fallen God standalone expansions

fantadomat

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I doubt that many people will decide to buy SP3 for a gift than CoD WW2 or battlefield1. Releasing during Christmas did tank their possible sales for sure.....still i don't know how they did on the home market. It is possible that it did good on the German market.
 

Mazisky

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I'll buy it at full price next month: i need to support those kind of games, expecially if good. It seems like they put a lot of effort in this.
 

Toffeli

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Wasteland 2
So now I am stuck. I'm at the second battle at the Foot of Barga Gor. Abandoned the mission on the first time since I got my ass whooped and did the mission with the elves, the medusa Island and the sand temple or whatever the fuck it was. I was stupid enough to go to the world map after talking to Gor and now I can't talk to the three orc dudes I'm supposed to before the battle. I can't get to them since there is now some strange off limits area between the fortress and the rest of the map. Not really keen on the idea to load a previously saved game and play all those maps again.
:negative:

Well I guess I could just skip the whole orc questline?
This was fixed in the latest patch. :incline:
 

fantadomat

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I just skimmed trough the steam reviews and almost all the negatives are about bugs. It is real shame that rushing killed the game...
 

Lhynn

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Been playing this shit sparingly. Havent encountered a single bug in my pirated release version. That said the performance on this shit is horrible, who the fuck coded this?

Game is fairly decent, the hero management system is complete garbage and needs to be reworked tho. The strategy layer of this game has little depth, it mostly comes down to being agressive and fast and knowing when to pull back.

The rpg elements are all kinds of horrible but meh, who gives a flying fuck anyway, its not what the game is about (except it mostly is). Still sort of enjoying the game so far, when i have the time and the inclination to play it. The writing is fairly decent, and i like the voice acting quite a bit.

Cheers.
 

Mark Richard

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I'm hanging back because the market has trained me to do so. You only get one first impression, and my patience will be rewarded in just a few short weeks with a far superior product.
 

thesheeep

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Well... 80k since last report a couple days ago.
The game is selling somewhat. But now, it is also in mixed territory, meaning far less people will even look further to consider a purchase.

Pretty sad to see a greed motivated rushed release likely messing up a promising game's future.
Oh well, will buy it next month anyway. How bad can it be after all those patches... right? ;)
 

Ezeekiel

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the hero management system is complete garbage and needs to be reworked tho. The strategy layer of this game has little depth, it mostly comes down to being agressive and fast and knowing when to pull back.

The rpg elements are all kinds of horrible but meh, who gives a flying fuck anyway, its not what the game is about (except it mostly is).

That sounds a lot like the old spellforce games...
 

Lacrymas

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From everything people are saying in this thread, it sounds exactly like the old Spellforce games, but with a touch-up here and there. Which is maybe not that bad of a thing, depending on what exactly you hate about them. The combination of the different design decisions is what makes Spellforce Spellforce, it's really not about the mix of RPG and RTS. Armies with heroes at the helm have existed in RTSes for a long time, including Age of Mythology, the Warrior Kings "series", Warlords Battlecry, Battle for Middle-Earth, the Warcrafts, even the Starcrafts, etc, it's how the different aspects have been developed that is interesting and potentially game-changing.
 
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How do so many people bitch and moan about 'bugs' on steam all day long? Honestly I have played games for over 30 years I can hardly ever recall running into 'bugs' that I noticed. Most issues I have had have been due to my own hardware or some other personal issue. I am guessing a large % of the people with bugs are also simply not understanding the rules of the game they are playing, and instead of figuring it out decide their is a 'bug'...either that or these people should sign up to be professional QC analysts because they seem to constantly find 'bugs', I can't even remember any bugs I have run into. I am sure I have, but I guess I forgot to make a 4 page essay and bitch about it to the world.
 

Alienman

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To be fair the game was released with several broken quests and so on. Bugs that should have been picked up by just doing one full playthrough.
 

Lacrymas

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You've never ran into bugs that you've noticed in 30 years of gaming? Wow.
 
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maybe I have-- I have had crash to desktop, clipping and things stuck in walls like in temple of elemental evil, but half the time it could be my own system combination of hardware. I cant ever recall not being able to proceed with a game or spending much time worrying or agonizing over it.

The amount of time people devout to talking about bugs just seems way overdone to me. I might be missing something, I don't know. I play lots of games, this is the longest I have ever spent on the issue of bugs that I can remember, and its just discussing their general prevalence or my lack of being able to perceive them at all.
 
Last edited:

Infinitron

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GameBanshee review: http://www.gamebanshee.com/reviews/120149-spellforce-3-review/all-pages.html

Introduction

SpellForce III is the third installment in the SpellForcefranchise, following in the footsteps of SpellForce: The Order of the Dawn (2003) and SpellForce 2: Shadow Wars (2006), not to mention a collection of DLCs and expansion packs culminating with SpellForce 2: Demons of the Past (2014). The new -- and fourth -- developer for the series is Munich-based Grimlore Games. This is their debut effort.

SpellForce III is the same sort of game as its predecessors. That is, it's a mix of role-playing (RPG) elements and real-time strategy (RTS) elements, where you control a hero character and complete quests, wear equipment, and gain levels, while also managing bases, gathering resources, and defeating opposing armies. What makes the SpellForce franchise unique is that this mix is pretty close to 50-50 rather than the more 75-25 ratio of RTS games with "role-playing elements."

Characters


After playing the tutorial / prologue for the game, where you control a secondary character (voiced by Doug Cockle, probably best known around here as Geralt of Rivia in CD Projekt Red's Witcher trilogy), and where you learn all about the game's mechanics, you're finally allowed to create your character. This character has a minor backstory -- you're the child of a traitor -- but otherwise you can build the character however you want, including picking a gender, name, and portrait.

When designing your character, you get to select three skill trees. Three of these available trees are for mundane weapons, and three are for spells, which means you can play as a pure warrior, a pure mage, or some combination of the two. Your character also gets a fixed fourth skill tree called "Leadership," which includes auras and base-affecting abilities (like being able to add or remove trees, one of the RTS resources). The companions that you meet only get the three skill trees; instead of the fourth, they have an "affinity" skill that they unlock once they've gotten to know you well enough.

Characters also have a collection of attributes: strength, dexterity, constitution, intelligence, and wisdom. These attributes do about what you'd expect. Strength and dexterity improve weapon damage, intelligence and wisdom improve spell damage, and constitution grants more health.

Nicely, instead of maintaining individual experience totals for all of your characters, you just have "party experience." So every time you kill a creature or complete a quest, the experience goes to your party experience rather than to the characters in your current party, and then all of your characters -- whether you've been using them or not, or whether you've even recruited them or not -- have the party experience. This is thoroughly convenient since it means you're not penalized for trying out different combinations of companions (of which there are about ten to choose from for your four-character party), or for missing companions when they're first available and then recruiting them later than expected.

Also nice is the fact that there are a bunch of re-spec potions in the game (all of your companions come with one, for example), and they're not all that expensive to purchase. So if you decide that your build isn't working out, or if a companion isn't complementing you properly, or if you find a cool weapon that's just out of your reach, then you can deal with the problem without much in the way of hassle. Of course, the re-spec potions only reset your skill and attribute points. Your skill trees become fixed when you choose them, so you can't reset everything.

On the downside, despite having multiple skill trees with lots of skills available, characters can only "equip" three active skills or spells at once. This seems overly restrictive, and it forces characters to focus on a few skills rather than becoming jacks of all trades. It also means that some useful but rarely-used skills (like the leadership ability to create trees) probably get ignored completely because they're not one of the top three, and swapping skills around is a little cumbersome, especially in a game where you're not allowed to pause.

But overall the character system works reasonably well. Three (or four) skill trees give you a variety of ways to build characters, and you earn enough points while playing that you can learn the skills and spells that you find important without learning everything.


Gameplay: RPG


The world in SpellForce III is divided up into distinct maps. A couple of the maps are for cities, where you can wander around, talk to people, and go shopping, but the rest are for missions. The SpellForce III campaign is fairly linear, so if a map is open to you then you should be able to complete it.

When you enter a map, you start out in RPG mode. In this mode, you only have your party of characters available to you -- that is, your main character plus at most three companions. RPG mode lets you explore at least some of the map and also talk to people to set up the mission. Then when you receive your town center, RTS mode takes over, where you're allowed to construct your base, gather resources, and build up an army -- while your opponent does the same thing. I'll discuss each mode in turn.

Of the two modes, RPG mode is by far the best, not that this is saying a whole lot. The story for the campaign involves a plague called the Bloodburn. It kills the living and raises the dead, and you're sent out to discover what's causing it. During your investigation, a war breaks out, and you end up leading the opposition. So you're given a lot to do: figure out what's going on, rally troops to your cause, and beat back an invading army. This works well given the RTS portion of the game.

The writing and the voice acting are surprisingly well done, especially when compared to the original SpellForce. The story has some twists and turns, but they're set up well, and they make sense even when you look back at them at the end of the game. What helps is that all of the characters are given motivations for their actions -- even the bad guys, who aren't just doing evil things because they're evil. So everything flows well.

You also get to converse with your companions in between missions, but they sometimes feel like talking wikipedia pages rather than people, as they spend more time informing you about what they represent in the game rather than conveying a compelling story. So the dwarf tells you about dwarves, the demonologist tells you about his school of magic, the persecuted mage describes the hardships that mages go through, and so on. These conversations aren't always interesting to listen to, but you have to go through them to complete the companion quests and unlock the companion affinity skills.

SpellForce's RPG mode fits in as an action RPG. I'm pretty sure only one skill in the game (bartering) affects dialogue in any way, and everything else is about combat. So you get a lot of simple objectives -- talk to somebody, find something, kill something -- and there isn't much actual role-playing involved. And even when you do get to make a decision, it never affects the main arc of the story. For example, early on you have to decide whether you should massacre an infected village to potentially save the rest of the kingdom. But no matter what you choose, the village gets massacred, so your decision only changes a couple of lines of dialogue later on.

As you're exploring and killing things, you of course find some equipment. Characters can wear body armor, a helmet, two rings, a necklace, a trinket / potion, and up to two items in their hands -- either a two-handed weapon, dual-wielded weapons, or a weapon and a shield. Tougher enemies tend to drop better loot, and there are also lots of hidden items around, where you have to collect pieces or read notes to find / craft them. In general, the equipment is effective, and the treasure hunts are great (although maybe a bit obscure at times). But by the end, my main character had 80% resistance to everything, and he could do massive damage with his two-handed sledgehammer, which was overkill. There isn't any set equipment.

In part because of the equipment, your main character and your companions get to be way too powerful in the game, for RPG mode and RTS mode both. I played using the "hard" difficulty setting, and early on I had some tough fights (including one against a dragon where I got destroyed). But by the midway point, nothing had a chance against me, and even the boss fights were easy, including an elder dragon who couldn't even out-damage my healers. Balance is always a tough thing, especially in a hybrid game like SpellForce III, but Grimlore Games has a ways to go to get it right.

Gameplay: RTS


The RTS mode in SpellForce III is by far the worst part of the game. I didn't like anything about it in theory or in implementation. It's a micromanaging nightmare where the interface doesn't give you a lot of help.

Each mission map is divided into a dozen or so sectors. You get a town hall in one sector, and that sector represents your main base. If you lose your town hall, then you lose the game. The other sectors are separate but connected. You can claim a sector by having one of your hero characters build an outpost there. Only the owner of a sector can build anything in the sector or gather the sector's resources.

Each outpost grants you some workers for the sector. You can upgrade the outpost to gain more workers, with a maximum of about 15 workers total. These workers can gather resources (by being assigned to a resource building like a quarry or a logging cabin), they can transport goods (by being assigned to the outpost), or they can defend the sector (by being assigned to a tower). As this description implies, your workers are spread pretty thin, and so you have to make some tough decisions about what resources you want to gather, and if you want to try defending the sector at all.

Sectors share resources with each other (but not workers), so you have to maintain several sectors and keep track of what they're producing to run an effective economy. Unfortunately, the interface doesn't help you a lot with this. If you bring up the mission map, then you can see the outline of each sector, what resources are available in each sector, and how many workers are unassigned in each sector, but that's it. The interface doesn't give you an easy way to see how many logging cabins you have, or if a quarry has run out of stone, or how upgraded the outpost is, and so you have to keep checking everything manually, which is a problem since you can't pause the game, and you're trying to expand and defend as quickly as possible.

Worse, the RTS balance is awful -- even worse than the RPG balance -- because of how much the computer-controlled enemies cheat. Perhaps in an effort to counteract how powerful your party of characters is, Grimlore gives all sorts of free troops and resources to your enemies. This allows them to expand quickly, and if they get to the point where they start can producing their own troops and resources in combination with the free troops and resources, then you have no chance. By the time you defeat one huge wave of enemies -- even if you have defensive towers and RTS troops backing you up -- the next wave comes in, and there isn't any way to make progress.

As a result, you can't play the RTS missions in the "right" way. If you take the time to capture sectors, grow your economy, and expand your army, then it's already too late. The only way to win is to take your party of characters and immediately send them to the enemy town center, so they can destroy it and end the mission before your enemy can gain a foothold anywhere. Because of this, despite finishing the campaign I can't tell you anything about any of the three available factions (humans, elves, and orcs) because I barely used them. They were almost immaterial to completing the RTS missions.


Bugs and Other Technical Issues


Oof.

For a while I considered using "oof" as the only word for this section of the review, or perhaps channeling The Shining and repeating "oof" over and over again, but then I decided that you might want something more descriptive if not necessarily more accurate. So here goes.

From what I can tell -- and this is complete conjecture on my part -- SpellForce III didn't receive any sort of professional beta testing at any time during its development. Grimlore Games has simply relied on the bug reports from people playing the game -- whether from the free beta weekend before its release, or from the live guinea pigs playing it now. As a result, Grimlore quickly learned about a bunch of bugs -- bugs they should have known about earlier -- and released a bunch of patches -- about one a day over the game's first two weeks -- to compensate. Some people might point to the patches and say they're proof that Grimlore is dedicated to providing a quality product. My view is that they desperately didn't want anybody asking for refunds. Plus, they wanted to make sure that the game could even be finished.

Anyway, skills were broken, quests were broken, and dialogue was broken. I got lucky during my playthrough. Since I tend to play games slower than others -- or perhaps "in a more thoughtful way" is a better descriptor -- by the time I got to certain places in the campaign, many game-breaking bugs had already been fixed. But even so, about 10% of the quests I received ended up breaking, and the problem was always something dumb. For example, one of the final quests involves looting a treasure room, but there's a door along the way that doesn't open when you click on it, so you can't go through. How could a bug that simple make it into a game's final release? And how could it possibly still be there three weeks later? Those are questions you might ask a lot while playing SpellForce III.

Or how about this for ineptitude? The dialogue is a mess. I lost count of how many times I had conversations where the subtitles didn't match the spoken words, where you got stuck in an infinite loop and couldn't advance a quest, where you weren't given an exit option and simply had to walk away from an NPC to break off the conversation, where a conversation prematurely ended and you had to start over, or an NPC repeated quest dialogue after the quest was complete. If you're a developer and simple dialogue coding is beyond you, then forget about creating an RPG/RTS hybrid.

Do you want more? The maps are so dark that it's tough to tell where you've explored, and you're not allowed to do any annotating. The loading times are excruciatingly long, especially since you're forced to listen to a narrator drone on about the map area you're in. Enemies always attack you in a straight line from their town hall to yours, so you always know where they're going to be. The camera is designed so poorly that sometimes it can't show you where you are and has to jitterbug around to some other location. And characters sometimes have trouble with pathfinding, so if you click on a location about an inch away, they decide to wander over to the other side of the map and back. Oof, oof, and more oof.

Conclusion


Somewhere deep in the current version of SpellForce III, there's a potentially fun game waiting to emerge. It's just a matter of whether Grimlore Games can cut away enough bugs and sculpt the balance enough so the good game can find a way to the surface. Right now, even after a dozen patches, SpellForce III still has lots of problems -- too many problems, really -- but it works, and it might provide some enjoyment for fans of real-time strategy and role-playing games. But I'd recommend waiting for another month or two, and for a few more patches, and probably for a price drop, before trying it out.
 

Mazisky

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I am playing it, the game is good but unfortunately i don't like the art style.

Now i get why lot of devs go cartoony. In a realistic style like this, it's all more difficult to see.
 

Lacrymas

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Nah, they go cartoony because it's popular, it's not for the benefit of the consumer. I'm so glad SF3 isn't like that, even though they could've done more to differentiate everything.
 

thesheeep

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Nah, they go cartoony because it's cheap, it's not for the benefit of the consumer. I'm so glad SF3 isn't like that, even though they could've done more to differentiate everything.
FTFY.

I don't think it is really popular as in "Oooh, I wanna play that game because it has that comic style 50% of all games have". But it is far less work for artists to create assets for a cartoon styled game. Less mesh work, less texture work, even less animation work.
While at the same time being "good enough" for most people.
Plus, it will likely run on mobile and trashy consoles, too...

As a side effect, it does make it easier to differentiate things, but as you said, that is almost never the reason to choose it.
 

Abu Antar

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
If you're the worst RTS player that the world have ever seen. You choose to play on the easiest difficulty. Would I have a chance of beating this?
 

Infinitron

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http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/120169-spellforce-iii-reviews-2.html

GameSpot gives it a 7/10:

While both the RPG and RTS elements presented here stay true to form, the overall game is more than the sum of its parts because of how it makes such disparate concepts serve the goal of creating a militaristic role-playing epic. Incorporating base- and army-building into a traditional role-playing formula adds a scope and weight that would not be present if the game never went beyond three or four guys swinging swords and slinging spells. The end result may not be innovative, but it is an interesting and entertaining tweak of RPG conventions offering a lot to anyone looking for something offbeat and engaging.

Hardcore Gamer gives it a 4/5:

SpellForce 3 has delivered on the potential it showed while still in development. Enjoying the layered gameplay and story requires a decent time commitment, but for an experience of this type and scope, diving right into it proves surprisingly easy. It might not be the deepest individual RTS or RPG experience ever created, but it’s no slouch in either department and the successful merger of the two game styles creates a rather unique experience. Hardcore CRPG or RTS fans might find the game systems for the respective genres less complex than some of their favorites, but as far as complexity is concerned, less is more was the way to go. A good analogy of the playstyle for SpellForce 3 for RPG fans is to think of it as a dual class; it may not reach pinnacle of either genre, but does good at both where the combination is greater than the sum of its parts. The idea of magic users being used as a scapegoat for the world’s problems and being hunted isn’t the most original idea, but the development team put enough of their own spin on this concept where it doesn’t just tread over the same familiar themes. 2017 was already a great year for RPGs and SpellForce 3 adds another entry on an already impressive list as the year comes to a close.

GameCrate gives it a 7.25/10:

SpellForce 3 is an amazing effort that falls short of its goal due to crippling bugs and some questionable game design choices. However, the development team appears to be committed to their game and is resolving bugs and balancing issues almost every day. By the time you finish reading this review, SpellForce 3 may be the game I was expecting when I bought it. Despite that, I spent over 60 hours playing the campaign, and I can’t say that I didn’t have a good time.

Skewed & Reviewed gives it a 4.5/5:

SpellForce 3, should be commended on its unique blend of RPG and RTS. When your army is needed, it’s because the story has taken you there, and the transition between RTS and RPG is done seamlessly. The characters are interesting (if not entirely memorable), and the battles are massive and while at times can be a bit overwhelming, are enjoyable none-the-less. It did take an hour or two for me to really get into the game as the early stages in the game act as a tutorial and take you through adventuring 101 and RTS 101. It’s necessary and does move the story along, but it just takes a bit for it to get going. Once it does however, you are in for an incredible adventure. If you are a big RPG fan, then this is a game to pick up. If you are strictly an RTS fan, and looking for a game that does this genre extremely well, then there are better games to play. However, If you are interested in or enjoy both, then this is the game for you.

DarkStation gives it a 4/5:

With co-op and additional skirmish modes available on top of the main campaign, SpellForce 3 is a generous -- and largely successful -- merger of two genres. While it isn't the world's deepest or most complex RPG nor gaming's most substantial RTS, it is a very effectively constructed and balanced hybrid and most important, makes a strong and compelling case that the mashup works. With over a decade between installments, it's not like the SpellForce franchise has overstayed its welcome. It's perfectly timed to delight both fans of the series and surprise new players looking for something new and different.

GameWatcher gives it a 7.0/10:

In the end, SpellForce 3 is a unique mix of strategy and RPG mechanics that miraculously loses very few of either. It asks no knowledge of the previous titles, and features co-op and PvP multiplayer modes in addition to the rather long single-player campaign. Ironically, in an age of MOBAs and strategy-less strategy games, this years-old staple of game design feels surprisingly refreshing.

And KGK gives it a 9/10:

The story is very rich and filled with cinematic detail as well as an intense soundtrack to follow the story as you progress through the world of Eo. The beauty the game holds is unparalleled in offering vast detail in scenery both during cinematic scenes and during levels. You can easily get lost in the story and forget about time completely while you enjoy such a stunning and exciting storyline.
 

thesheeep

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I'd love to play the campaign in co-op (well, once fully fixed), but only the host's hero is permanent. That completely kills any potential of this.
Who would like to always play some temporary sidekick? Who thought that was a good idea? :lol:
 

Lacrymas

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Binding of Isaac has a temporary sidekick and I and a friend of mine played it no problem, but maybe that's different.
 

thesheeep

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Binding of Isaac has a temporary sidekick and I and a friend of mine played it no problem, but maybe that's different.
Yeah, just like Enter The Gungeon, it's not really comparable.
Binding Of Isaac and similar games are played in short, unrelated sessions.

Playing through a whole campaign together is a different thing. Imagine playing through D:OS together but you can't even have your own character and level them up. Just doesn't really work.
Even if only one character can be the "main" character, the others should at least be persistent.
 

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