KickStarter SR:HK one of Kickstarter's greatest successes, BT4 a dismal failure

[Vault Dweller]

What makes you think it wouldn't sell well?

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

Only 1.2 million when he expected more probably?

That sales success is relative to how much a game costs?

A 2D game sequel to 2 previous successful games built with the same engine and team expertise vs an entirely new Blobber with shiny 3D graphics that IneXile has no experience developing.

Which is better and why?

 

[Darkzone]

I think that BTIV will be eating up 2-4 millions from inXile, but on the other hand BT2004 has helped WL2. The question is how many WL2 DC on consoles will be sold and how many Torments will go out. If WL2 DC manages to sell 200k units then this shouldn't be a problem. And if Torment manages another 400k then WL3 or Van Buren is also secured. The thing is that perhaps BTIV could not sell enough to cover the investment in it's production, but it's not likely to happen. And even then this would not mean the end for inXile.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

''it's not likely to happen''

Failed the hype test.

 

[Darkzone]

''it's not likely to happen''
Failed the hype test.

Should i have wrote that they will sell 500k units, to pass a fanboy hype test? 200k units should be enough and that is quite plausible, especially with the graphic and etc. BTIV is the first inXile KS that nearly has no hype at all and most of the people look at it with a "i don't know expression".

 

[naossano]

It would have been pretty naïve to expect to get the same ammount of money than Wasteland 2 and Torment.
Wasteland 2 got Kickstartered after the failure of Fallout, the lack of isometric/Turn-based/post-apocalyptic/RPG for years (before Underrail and others). It answered to an need that a huge amount of players had and wasn't fullfilled anywhere else. They went well beyond the Wasteland 1 initial playerbase.
As of Torment, it is simply the sequel of one of a kind, and a game considered to have the best writting in history, with an unique universe. Beside that, it followed WL2 hype.

Even if it has a soft spot in Interplay History, Bard's Tale isn't one of a kind and isn't the first game of that genre released in years. It already has a fierce competition all around.
Plus there is some amount of players disapointed by WL2 that don't believe in InXile.

 

[almondblight]

When your victory is assured, it's best to ask for a small amount precisely because you'll end up with a massively inflated %, which will be reported all over the gaming media. It was HBS third KS in the same series, they knew how it would turn out. While they didn't need much, they definitely needed more than 100k to make the third game.

Huh? Campaigns ask for more money when they think they can get more, less when they think they'll get less. If you want evidence of this, check out how companies act after successful campaigns vs. how they act after failed campaigns (for example, compare DFA -> Massive Chalice with Thorvalla -> Deathfire).

HBS had a successful campaign during the height of the KS craze, but their next campaign (miniature board game thing) struggled to hit it's $500k goal. The lukewarm reception to SRR as well as the under-performance of Dragonfall (at least initially - I think it's had good legs) forced HBS to reevaluate their plans.

The $100k goal was probably set because it seemed achievable. I don't think they expected to make as much as they did, and the stretch goals and low target suggests this. They did state that the KS money was for enhancing the game; $100k was never supposed to fund the entire thing.

 

[Drakron]

I dont think KS was intended to replace the entire funding model, it was more for people that had troubles in securing funding for their projects because they we too low key.

Having established studios doing it is a God damn disgrace and they only start doing it when KS started to pull millions on funding, suddenly they could fund their entire game and still get publisher funding at the same time, any excess would be in their pockets ... this got worst when Star Citizen come and pulled millions, now you could get AAA budgets with crowdfunding ... and also irresponsibility since you no longer had to answer for the funds, you got a nice lump sum you could burn and then keep asking for more and more.

I am sorry but KS was never to replace the old system, its completely irresponsible to allow studios to get millions without having to answer for it, its should never replace the old funding system and certainly not for studios that could get tradional funding to get a source of funding they would not be accounted for (you know who I am talking about Tim Schafer) because for then its just "better" to not be held accountable on how to run their budgets.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Only 1.2 million when he expected more probably?

You know how much he expected?

That sales success is relative to how much a game costs?

It's even more relative to how much it sells (i.e. way too early to say).

 

[roshan]

Finally found that quote:

Well, we’re hoping to get a large budget for the game. Basically, I make games for the budget I can get. I hope we will raise something around the score of Torment: Tides of Numenera but I can’t count on that. We have all the marks checked but I tend to be skeptical and careful about everything. Besides, I don’t worry too much about attracting new people. I’m going to focus on my base audience and make them happy. However, I think when people see the visual side of the dungeon they’ll say: “They are super-ambitious and it is so full of personality.” When I’ve announced The Bard’s Tale IV on Twitter I had more retweets than ever before. Of course, there’s been some other dungeon-crawlers – like Legend of Grimrock and Might & Magic X – and they’re great but we are making something bigger.

http://www.gamepressure.com/e.asp?ID=124

There you go folks, straight from the horses mouth. Fargo asked for that amount hoping he would get over 3X as much, in line with his previous Kickstarter projects. What's more, funding levels determine graphics and music quality, so you can say goodbye to those nice graphics in the preview video, that's certainly not materializing now that the game's budget has been effectively halved (including the 1.2 that InXile plans to put in itself). That's not even counting the fact that it was an unrealistic goal for them even had the game been really "fully funded" at about the 4M mark.

 

[Roguey]

I like how you didn't bold the "but I can't count on that."

 

[roshan]

I like how you didn't bold the "but I can't count on that."

There is simply no relevance to that portion. It's just stating the obvious. How much they will actually get is just guesswork and he is admitting it. The more important portion is how much they hoped to raise which is actually about 4M. In fact, Torment with the post launch funding is just 64K short of 5M.

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

I like how you didn't bold the "but I can't count on that."

It's not like anyone has ever said explicitly ''I hope to have 3 times my goals or I'm fucked.''

Don't be dumb.

 

[Roguey]

It's not like anyone has ever said explicitly ''I hope to have 3 times my goals or I'm fucked.''

Fargo had to double Wasteland 2's kickstarter budget and it turned out all right for them. Their future seems pretty stable at the moment to me.

 

[RK47]

InXile is the Developer of Peace, behead those who insult InXile.

 

[mindx2]

I am sorry but KS was never to replace the old system, its completely irresponsible to allow studios to get millions without having to answer for it, its should never replace the old funding system and certainly not for studios that could get tradional funding to get a source of funding they would not be accounted for (you know who I am talking about Tim Schafer) because for then its just "better" to not be held accountable on how to run their budgets.

Have we sunk so low that the Codex now defends the old publisher model...?! You want the EA and Activisions of the gaming world to control what might get made? Look what that got us in the 2000s.

 

[Athelas]

Have we sunk so low that the Codex now defends the old publisher model...?! You want the EA and Activisions of the gaming world to control what might get made? Look what that got us in the 2000s.

 

[mindx2]

Out of how many my friend, how many...?

 

[roshan]

Have we sunk so low that the Codex now defends the old publisher model...?! You want the EA and Activisions of the gaming world to control what might get made? Look what that got us in the 2000s.

Oh really, let's look at what the big kickstarters have brought us (this is as far as I know based on Codex comments, with regards to the 3D games which I don't play):

1. Divinity Original Sin asked for money to complete and polish their game but still released a product completely unfinished beyond Cyseal.
2. Wasteland 2 promised a tactical RPG that turned out to have no other tactic than "shoot", but turned out to be a detailed container opener simulator.
3. Pillars of Shitternity promised an IE style game combining the best of BG, IWD and PST but turned out to be a hollow single player World of Warcraft clone made by interns.
4. Shadowrun Returns promised an old school RPG but turned out to be a simplistic tablet game.
5. Dead State turned out to be an incomplete, buggy mess.
6. Haven't really managed to comprehend why, but Banner Saga turned out to be disappointing for most too (possibly because the game implemented actual consequences which butthurt lots of people, but perhaps there were promises here too that were undelivered).

The only games that have underpromised but way overdelivered not only in terms of graphics and music but also in terms of systems and content (and even quality backer rewards) have been smaller projects like Lords of Xulima and Serpent in the Staglands. These are the sort of projects that should actually be on Kickstarter, not the sequence of farces launched by the big studios which have destroyed confidence in the system.

 

[almondblight]

Troika's Jason Anderson, who served as the game's Creative Director, among other things, laid the blame squarely on publisher Activision, saying that Activision took the game out of Troika's hands without ever giving them the time to test and polish it.

 

[pippin]

THIS was a dismal failure!

Too soon

Bard's Tale was a successful campaign and now we just have to see what will happen. It was a success even when it arrived at the worst possible moment for medium-sized rpgs, with almost everyone trying to discuss the fuck out FO4.

 

[prodigydancer]

No, seriously. If BT4 KS goal was $100k it'd be #1 on the OP's list with 1500%.

 

[mindx2]

Oh really, let's look at what the big kickstarters have brought us (this is as far as I know based on Codex comments, with regards to the 3D games which I don't play):

1. Divinity Original Sin asked for money to complete and polish their game but still released a product completely unfinished beyond Cyseal.
2. Wasteland 2 promised a tactical RPG that turned out to have no other tactic than "shoot", but turned out to be a detailed container opener simulator.
3. Pillars of Shitternity promised an IE style game combining the best of BG, IWD and PST but turned out to be a hollow single player World of Warcraft clone made by interns.
4. Shadowrun Returns promised an old school RPG but turned out to be a simplistic tablet game.
5. Dead State turned out to be an incomplete, buggy mess.
6. Haven't really managed to comprehend why, but Banner Saga turned out to be disappointing for most too (possibly because the game implemented actual consequences which butthurt lots of people, but perhaps there were promises here too that were undelivered).

The only games that have underpromised but way overdelivered not only in terms of graphics and music but also in terms of systems and content (and even quality backer rewards) have been smaller projects like Lords of Xulima and Serpent in the Staglands. These are the sort of projects that should actually be on Kickstarter, not the sequence of farces launched by the big studios which have destroyed confidence in the system.

All those games you talk about gave me more enjoyment and entertainment than over a decade of AAA console-ported crap combined so I'm still not seeing, or agreeing with, your point.....

 

[roshan]

All those games you talk about gave me more enjoyment and entertainment than over a decade of AAA console-ported crap combined so I'm still not seeing, or agreeing with, your point.....

I'm not saying they were bad games (except for POE) and in fact I enjoyed DMS and BS a lot, but it does remain true that all these games somehow or the other failed to meet promises and expectations. In the case of POE, they openly stuck the middle finger at their backers, the "grognards who don't know what fun is" and made a trash game for casuals instead. All these failed or abandoned promises have slowly discredited Kickstarter. Before these studios could blame everything on their publishers, now it's the exact opposite. They blame their backers instead. "Why did you implement X stupid feature (let's say engagement) at the cost of resources and huge detriment to gameplay?" "Oh, because the backers in the forum told us to do so." Yeah right you fucking bullshitters. In the age of information overload/asymmetry it's easy for them to blame all sorts of things on their backers instead of taking responsibility for shit design, while at the same time ignoring the wishes of the vast majority in order to pursue their own deranged "vision" (Combat XP).

Hence the illogical and unreasonable reminiscing for the ye olde days of big publishers.

 

[Immortal]

Yet in the end SR: HK got 31,497 backers pledging $1,204,726 and BT4 got 33,741 backers pledging $1,519,680, so I'm not really sure why you feel that one's the greatest success known to men and the other is a horrible failure. What if Fargo asks for a dollar next time and collects a million bucks, exceeding the "goal" by a gajillion and crashing stock markets?

Yea I agree with this..

Roshan your logic breaks down because the asking price isn't really tied to anything tangible. It's a number pulled out of a developers ass that usually ranges between "What is the minimum amount I can make a game with" to the upper scale of "Okay what's the magical amount of money I really want".

Kickstarter is basically one big mind fuck marketing scheme. You have 5 minutes to shove an elevator pitch up someones ass and the asking price is no different. It's all a game to garner maximum shekals. I don't consider a % of what they got as an accurate tool for measuring success or failure.

However - I will concede that Bards Tale was probably a disappointment to Brian Whereas Shadowrun's final amount was likely considered a huge success by their devs.