StarCraft: Remastered

[Johannes]

Now that I think about it you're probably right. One thing I hated about aoe2 is it had unit control and pathing that felt even worse than sc1 somehow.

That's probably because you're a retard noob.

 

[Johannes]

Okay, I'll make this easy for the likes of you:
How exactly would removing the selection limit influence skill cap (not entry skill barrier)?

See SC2 vs. SC1. SC2 is boring to watch as everyone simply deathballs their army and runs into each other. Even after two expansions and a huge number of balance attempts Blizzard hasn't really been able to fix this issue.

You hit the nail on the head. SCBW was such a good game because going 1a2a3a was so hard, that people couldn't move their armies in deathballs.

 

[RhodokMasterRaceOfficial]

Yeah anyway...

Who else just watched Flash vs Jaedong in the ASL semifinal?

 

[Average Manatee]

Now that I think about it you're probably right. One thing I hated about aoe2 is it had unit control and pathing that felt even worse than sc1 somehow.

That's probably because you're a retard noob.

AoE2's pathing was complete shit. The only game where you can order your units to move to the right and their first action is to turn around and go left.

Yeah anyway...

Who else just watched Flash vs Jaedong in the ASL semifinal?

Dis is gud. Cool that SC1 seems to be reviving a bit, love my man Jaedong.

 

[Johannes]

Now that I think about it you're probably right. One thing I hated about aoe2 is it had unit control and pathing that felt even worse than sc1 somehow.

That's probably because you're a retard noob.

AoE2's pathing was complete shit. The only game where you can order your units to move to the right and their first action is to turn around and go left.

And complaining about it is basically the same thing as complaining about unit selection limit in SCBW.

 

[Average Manatee]

And complaining about it is basically the same thing as complaining about unit selection limit in SCBW.

It's exactly the opposite. BW's unit selection limit increases the rewards for people who can micro better. AoE2's pathing decreases the reward for microing because your units randomly flip out and stop fighting properly.

 

[Johannes]

And complaining about it is basically the same thing as complaining about unit selection limit in SCBW.

It's exactly the opposite. BW's unit selection limit increases the rewards for people who can micro better. AoE2's pathing decreases the reward for microing because your units randomly flip out and stop fighting properly.

A good player understands and knows how to work with and around whatever tech the game has, resulting in better performance over a noob. It's not so random at all how the AoE2 units behave. Both affect the game and what skillset is most important, and in either case you can argue for or against it making the game overall better. Neither change would be about making the game "easier" or "harder" in any linear sense, but changing these would have cascading effects into all areas of the game. You have to take the unit pathing behavior, selection limits, all that into account when considering what kind of build to do and what units to use.

Were you ever even any good at SCBW - do you actually understand at all what you're talking about or just repeating talking points you've read elsewhere

 

[Average Manatee]

It's exactly the opposite. BW's unit selection limit increases the rewards for people who can micro better. AoE2's pathing decreases the reward for microing because your units randomly flip out and stop fighting properly.

A good player understands and knows how to work with and around whatever tech the game has, resulting in better performance over a noob. It's not so random at all how the AoE2 units behave. Both affect the game and what skillset is most important, and in either case you can argue for or against it making the game overall better. Neither change would be about making the game "easier" or "harder" in any linear sense, but changing these would have cascading effects into all areas of the game. You have to take the unit pathing behavior, selection limits, all that into account when considering what kind of build to do and what units to use.

Were you ever even any good at SCBW - do you actually understand at all what you're talking about or just repeating talking points you've read elsewhere

"how to work with and around whatever the tech the game has" in AoE2 = don't micro units. That lowers the skill cap and makes the game both less enjoyable to play and less competitive because there is less control over your units and less skill differentiation between noob and pro. You simply won't see battles as interesting as those of BW's in AoE2 because of this. The extent of micro in AoE2 is spamming the different formations to dodge siege fire, which you have to do because actually ordering units to move is useless for moving quickly.


It's actually sort of the same problem SC2 has, but for the opposite reason. In SC2 your units are so good at moving that you don't really see micro like SC1 except to avoid AoE (lol), surround with melee, or focus fire certain targets, because the marginal advantage is so small and time is better spent with macro. In many instances units are so good at massing and shooting things together that spending time dodging and moving around can hurt you. In AoE2 you don't see much micro because units are so unwieldy and slow to respond that the marginal advantage is again small, with considerable possibility to actually hurt you compared to simple attack move.

 

[Johannes]

Terrible analysis. AoE2 units are totally microable if you know what you're doing, of course within certain parameters. The units don't spaz out randomly. And most important thing for precise control? Don't select too many units at a time (ok, with some commands you can). The units are not slow and unwieldy - except of course, the slow ones are. If you want to win you need to micro, besides just aiming and dodging mangonels (and are you really saying changing formation is the only way to reliably dodge?).

The main difference between AoE2 and SCBW battles is not command group size, not pathing algorithm, but the variety of units and abilities. Add air units, cloaking, spells (besides monks) into AoE2 and the battles would look very different. With the exact same pathing in place.

AoE2 is less enjoyable? For you, sure. But there's a lot of people who obviously prefer AoE2. Different games have different focuses. But to say it's "less competitive" is retarded - there's nobody playing the game with anywhere near optimal mechanics. Nor would the game risk getting solved in any aspect even if there were pro-teams practicing it fulltime like SCBW had. Would it be more Competitive if there was a unit selection limit, though?


It's laughable when SCBW fanboys think every RTS would be better if it was made more like SCBW.

 

[Average Manatee]

Terrible analysis. AoE2 units are totally microable if you know what you're doing, of course within certain parameters. The units don't spaz out randomly. And most important thing for precise control? Don't select too many units at a time (ok, with some commands you can). The units are not slow and unwieldy - except of course, the slow ones are. If you want to win you need to micro, besides just aiming and dodging mangonels (and are you really saying changing formation is the only way to reliably dodge?).

Have units fired at by siege and click to their side -> they rotate their retarded formation in place before moving, meaning they having moved out of the way by the time the shot hits.

Have a group of knights hitting random shit and you want to tell them to attack the archers -> Knights spend 3s running away from the archers, taking massive damage in the process.

It's a repeatable problem and it makes it feel like crap crap.

AoE2 is less enjoyable? For you, sure. But there's a lot of people who obviously prefer AoE2. Different games have different focuses. But to say it's "less competitive" is retarded - there's nobody playing the game with anywhere near optimal mechanics. Nor would the game risk getting solved in any aspect even if there were pro-teams practicing it fulltime like SCBW had. Would it be more Competitive if there was a unit selection limit, though?

It's laughable when SCBW fanboys think every RTS would be better if it was made more like SCBW.

I never said AoE2 was less enjoyable than BW. I said AoE2 with shitty unit movement is less enjoyable and less competitive than a hypothetical AoE2 with good unit movement.

 

[Johannes]

Terrible analysis. AoE2 units are totally microable if you know what you're doing, of course within certain parameters. The units don't spaz out randomly. And most important thing for precise control? Don't select too many units at a time (ok, with some commands you can). The units are not slow and unwieldy - except of course, the slow ones are. If you want to win you need to micro, besides just aiming and dodging mangonels (and are you really saying changing formation is the only way to reliably dodge?).

Have units fired at by siege and click to their side -> they rotate their retarded formation in place before moving, meaning they having moved out of the way by the time the shot hits.

Have a group of knights hitting random shit and you want to tell them to attack the archers -> Knights spend 3s running away from the archers, taking massive damage in the process.

It's a repeatable problem and it makes it feel like crap crap.

AoE2 is less enjoyable? For you, sure. But there's a lot of people who obviously prefer AoE2. Different games have different focuses. But to say it's "less competitive" is retarded - there's nobody playing the game with anywhere near optimal mechanics. Nor would the game risk getting solved in any aspect even if there were pro-teams practicing it fulltime like SCBW had. Would it be more Competitive if there was a unit selection limit, though?

It's laughable when SCBW fanboys think every RTS would be better if it was made more like SCBW.

I never said AoE2 was less enjoyable than BW. I said AoE2 with shitty unit movement is less enjoyable and less competitive than a hypothetical AoE2 with good unit movement.

As you say it's a repeatable problem - so a better player will know the behavior better and can tell when a selection of units will move where with what command. And when to select smaller units at a time to move them more straightforwardly, when to switch formation and so on.
If I have these units and click there, who will move to the side, to the back, or directly to target? For 0,2s or 0,5 seconds? A good player can tell that and adjust. And newbs like you will be spazzing out worse than their units due to their uncertaintly.


Again - the same shit could be said about unit selection limit in SCBW. You want to do X but the game won't let you! It feels like crap and worsens the game!

In both cases it's both legitimate grievance and stupid, depending on which angle you look at it from. To you a changed pathing algo would be an obvious improvement, like limitless selection in SCBW would be for somebody else. At least in the abstract. The other side of the coin is how the changes would affect the balance of the game more widely - you're no longer limited to 11 mutalisks per stack, and low supply units are easier to move around, or in AoE2 the consideration of missiles vs melee, and charging vs. defending, changes slightly as you maneuver differently.
And these changes would not necessarily be for the worse, but it'd be a different game instead of merely the same game but better.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.pcgamesn.com/starcraft-brood-war/starcraft-brood-war-remastered-rumour

StarCraft: Brood War HD remaster rumours spark up again, could be released this year

For a while now there have been whispers that Blizzard are considering bringing back their heavyweight RTS StarCraft: Brood War in a remastered, HD form. Such rumours simply won’t go away, and the latest word on the ‘net is that the updated version of the game could be released later this year.

Sports Seoul is reporting that Blizzard aim to have ‘StarCraft: Remastered’ available to players around May-June 2017. The update would include high-resolution graphics as well as an updated Battle.net service. Everything about the gameplay would remain in tact from Brood War, with no changes or influences from StarCraft II.

Reportedly Blizzard revealed these details in secret to industry insiders at Blizzcon 2016, among them eSports broadcasters and sponsors. Apparently the official announcement could come as early as next week. The official announcement will be held in Korea, provided Sports Seoul’s report is correct. That wouldn’t be too surprising considering the importance of Korea to StarCraft’s legacy.

Naturally you should look at this entire report with a healthy amount of skepticism. If you can read Korean you can check out the original Sports Seoul article here. There’s a forum thread dedicated to the topic over on Team Liquid.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Oh, not this again...

 

[RhodokMasterRaceOfficial]

This rumour resurfaces every 6 months. Just ignore it.

 

[Lagi]

Everything about the gameplay would remain in tact from Brood War

after 20 years of intensive play's, tournaments and national sport events - only thing they find worthy improving is increasing the view area.

 

[Lostpleb]

Everything about the gameplay would remain in tact from Brood War

after 20 years of intensive play's, tournaments and national sport events - only thing they find worthy improving is increasing the view area.

I'm pretty disappointed about that as well. This is probably meant to get some cheap sales out of the new gen crowd that never really played Starcraft:BW in the first place and might be curious about how the series started out.

Anyone who wants an updated SC1 experience should try out Mass Recall. The mod authors even managed to include the two unfinished Terran campaign missions that were cut from the original game, which could only be found on the very first wave of retail CDs that were distributed back in 1998.

 

[RhodokMasterRaceOfficial]

after 20 years of intensive play's, tournaments and national sport events - only thing they find worthy improving is increasing the view area.

This is the only thing to improve about Brood War. You and the person who posted below you are just casual fags who need to get out of RTSes with your "QoL" shit.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

after 20 years of intensive play's, tournaments and national sport events - only thing they find worthy improving is increasing the view area.

This is the only thing to improve about Brood War. You and the person who posted below you are just casual fags who need to get out of RTSes with your "QoL" shit.

Have you ever considered becoming a professional tryhard?

 

[RhodokMasterRaceOfficial]

Have you considered gittin' gud and not staying EZ for once? Frankly you people make me downright appalled by the general state of affairs in the RTS-playing demographic. I mean, the "allegedly" RTS-playing demographic anyway.

 

[catfood]

 

[Icewater]

Starcraft is shit and can't hold a candle to a real strategy game like Total Annihilation. It is a proven fact.

 

[catfood]

I wouldn't call it shit, but yeah, TA is a much more engaging game with more strategic layers to master.

 

[Lagi]

I'm pretty disappointed about that as well. This is probably meant to get some cheap sales out of the new gen crowd that never really played Starcraft:BW in the first place and might be curious about how the series started out.

Agree

Anyone who wants an updated SC1 experience should try out Mass Recall.

You forgot to add its in SC2 engine - disappointing. Try SC Revolution (sc1 mod) instead.

Starcraft is shit and can't hold a candle to a real strategy game like Total Annihilation.

Dude its completely different games, only thing they have in common is real time. [TA mod worth trying: Escalation and Zero]

 

[RhodokMasterRaceOfficial]

Total Annihilation? You mean a dumb macro game designed solely for comp stomps where all you actually have to do is turtle after the early game and then spam nukes/artillery? Good God I might have actually taken your opinion seriously if you'd said nearly any other 90s RTS. Mirror faction balance is v. engaging and multi-layered didn't you know?

 

[Lagi]

This is the only thing to improve about Brood War. You and the person who posted below you are just casual fags who need to get out of RTSes with your "QoL" shit.

Spoiler

HD would be sweet.

QoL shit like ordering every new worker to gather minerals, because rally point can not handle that? I bet you getting hard when repairing mech units with SCV and have wet dreams about manually healing with medics.

underwhelming units, craving for buffs:
Firebat - why this powerful on paper unit do such miserable damage? yeah, Concussive type. It must be genius design to give 3 terran unit "special" damage. Besides early ling rush, Vulture just outclass FB in every field.
Scout - 275/125 for core aircraft? Corsair with 5 dmg is only useful due to Web.
Queen - too expensive for their trolling tools.
valkyries, devourer - all this air balance mode can be shove into garbage.
Citadel of Aldun being filler structure with solely purpose to delay access to Templars and archons is remarkable sample of great design. Same as naked High templar - oh what I suppose todo with it, build second and morph into Archon ofc.
Everone who praise BCruisers for their Yamato gun "oh how lovely it destroys that tower from safe distance", should be nuked by ghost together with their eco- turtled bases. BC are one big resource dumpster.

what about some nerfs? nahh... siege tanks and carriers are perfectly balance. There is thousands scenarios when you don't go for those. Did anyone remember Zerg game without Mutas?
How about some slap for ComSat toy? What I what to accomplish - forcing terran to scout? nobody got time for that. And revealing enemy base in early game is not cheesy at all.