Vapourware Steam is (NO LONGER) charging for mods now lmao

[Raghar]

dude - your very first post in this thread:

Appart from that my message to the butthurt nerds would be - you wanna get shit for free? Then make something for free first. Then you can bitch.

So everyone bitching here is a charitable modder? Really? All the people admitting they're bitching just because they wanna haz stuff for free that's nothing for you? You've just filtered that out? Jesus, this thread.

If you can't stand the heat, don't post in this thread.

 

[Kane]

You are aware that while you certainly can't be forced to pay them (you don't owe them anything) they can't be forced to sell to you (they don't owe you anything) either?

The shirt implies that I can just walk into store, take what I want, and argue that nobody owes the store anything.
This is the side that doesn't work, because they can, and will force me to pay, one way or another.

The side that does work, on the other hand, is the one where a company can take what they want and owe nothing.
Most recent example is this mod market thing right here.
The plan to take authors' work that was already done, and profit on it through various loopholes.
Even if the original author doesn't accept TOS - there are always thieves looking to grab that coin they offer.
Thieves would've looted and pillaged the authors, rebranded their work and as soon as they uploaded, valve would own the code.
Where does this leave original author? What is the code is licenced and the thief just obfuscated it?
Valve wouldn't care, because someone accepted the TOS. This is why this shirt only fits certain people, but not everyone.

 

[Hegel]

By the way: is Skyrim any good?

 

[toroid]

A friend of mine had a gas mask with a large steamroller pipe attached to it, and he named it Mr Snuffleupagus.


Anyway, it's funny how the people who are not knowledgeable about this issue tend to gravitate towards the "people just want stuff for free" argument.
For example, yesterday LobosJR had a little something to say about it during a live stream. He essentially says that Valve's retraction of paid mods is the fault of shitty people who want everything for free.
He's clearly pretty clueless about the whole ordeal. Check it: http://www.twitch.tv/lobosjr/v/4466128?t=2h52m16s He talks about it for a couple minutes.

GG Lobos.

 

[Raghar]

By the way: is Skyrim any good?

If you disable level scaling, and don't abuse system, it nice, especially assassin guild quests.

 

[pippin]

By the way: is Skyrim any good?

ask DraQ about Skyrim

 

[Nomad_Blizz]

By the way: is Skyrim any good?

Only if you install 150+ mods that include textures, unofficial fixes, gameplay overhauls (like requiem, skyre, or perma), interface mods like skyui, better animations, enhanced camera,etc,etc. If you're interested in playing, I suggest you start now cause a year from today I bet that valve and beth will come back with another payment model.

 

[Riso]

The answer is no, you longwinded fucks.

 

[DraQ]

The inability to mod for profit was due to legal constraints and in some part the lack of a way to deliver the product, that's it. Reading anything else into it is pointless

It doesn't matter whether it was due to legal constraints, physical constants or swarms of gregarious parasitic dongs from Mars roaming the planet and lethally sodomizing anyone trying to sell mods.
What matters is that such a limitation was there since the beginning, was expected to remain there for long, indeterminate period of time and that the community has grown around it, like it would around any other persistent environmental factor.

clearly illuminated by just how many modders joined Valve's experiment here.

It doesn't illuminate anything beyond people's willingness to jump on cashgrabs.
If you needed this workshop fiasco to explain that to you, then I'm sorry but the modern medicine can't fucking help you.

And of course one dynamic produces a unique result. The question is does it produce the superior result? We don't know, and I don't like to willingly throw myself onto an assumption that one system is best thanks to the complete and total absence of another system.

We have this nifty newfangled thing known as insight based learning.
This means that apart from poking things randomly trying to get them to do something useful we can construct mental models based on our understanding of situation:

Now lets try in detail explain why monetization of Skyrim mods is a bad idea.

First why it damages modders:

1. Go to Skyrim Nexus and look utilities category, you will see large number of programs that was made free by modders for modders to make their life easier. Now imagine if a newbie modder needs to buy many of them in order to just start modding and to level the playground with modders who use those tools, imagine how many of them would quit before even starting.

2. Go to description of any bit more complex mod and see a list of mods/programs/plugins you need to have before you can run them. Now imagine for you to need to buy all those additional stuff before playing that mod, and in the same time imagine how much money creator of the mod needs to spend to use other modders assets or give royalties. So not only you need to pay for additional addons just to start a mod but also modders will inflate their price in order to get some money back. Take for example SKSE something thats pretty mandatory for modding, what if the creator instead of giving it free wants either a flat fee of 500$ per mod or 30% royalties of sales, maybe its too much, but he can say take it or leave it, then imagine other modders asking similar demands. I bet people would rush into modding scene.

3. Go to Skyrim modding community and ask for help starting to mod, you will get lots of helpful advices and people linking to many tutorials and guides. Now imagine doing the same among people who sell their mods, they will tell you to fuck off because why should they help a competitor who would take a extra slice of already sliced up cake.

4. Go to any more complex mod and see credits list. You will see large number of modders helping out with the creation of the mod. They do it for free to help community get more quality mods and make advancements from which entirety of community will have use from. If the mods are paid why would they waste time helping others make money instead of working for themselves. or should all these people also ask for royalties of flat fee before helping.



Why it damages players:

1. Just to start adding mods to Skyrim (anything but recolors of vanilla items) you would need several different utilities that are mandatory for making a stable modded Skyrim. So right from the start you need to spend money just to make Skyrim moddable. Then if you want to buy a bit more complex mod you would need to get several other mods just to make that one alone work. But modding Skyrim is not about one or two mods, average number goes near hundred since many of them require others to work properly. Now imagine cost of hundred mods, its one thing to ask 1$ for a reskin of a sword but how much would someone charge for large overhauls and different large mods that are considered mandatory. You would realize that you would need to spend several hundred bucks just to make Skyrim into a decent game. So how many players are ready to spend that much money and how many of them will abandon Skyrim, refuse to purchase following game for fear of same thing happening with it or how many will just pirate everything.

2. One of the biggest problem with Skyrim modding and using large number of mods is compatibility of said mods. Installing two mods directly to data folder and starting them up together many times will result with CTD, so modders made utilities, patches and detailed guides to make them work, so get ready to spend money on that too. With people selling mods it will be in noones interest to make its competitors mods work, especially if you can make money of it.

3. One of the most popular mod on Nexus is Unofficial Patch made by modders. Modders have for a long time been fixing the game Bethesda left buggy as hell, they did it for free for community. Now imagine you need to buy a patch for the game.
Tell me about any game where people need to buy patches and that its a good idea. Will Bethesda use all this to release shitty buggy products in hope modders will fix it and they earn extra money, well im sure they are nice people who would never do such a thing.

You will have a splintered community in half, one that sells mods others who do it for free only thing in common they will have is refusing to work together in fear someone will steal their work for profit. And that kind of community would not be able to produce half as much of quality mods as we have now. But hey few people will make some money and thats a fair price to pay for destroying a community with which almost everyone except few nutjobs were happy for years. And you will have large number of players abandoning both Skyrim and future Bethesda games.

Second, it isn't necessarily total absence of another system, merely protecting the part of the modding community that would actually suffer from its intrusion (whether it's doable in such partial way, especially given preexisting modding community dependent on its own preexisting structure and toolsets is another matter).

There's nothing stopping anyone from cooperating with one another.

Of course there is. You don't want to cooperate with someone you compete with. Duh.

I mentioned earlier that someone with an important script could theoretically withdraw it from the rest of the community. But in a monetary system they would be doing this at their own peril.

Durr.
What peril?
Relying on external paid resource cuts into your profits (as you have to adjust your price to account for the fact that your customers will need to buy it as well as your mod), relying on free one - well it assumes there will be a free one that can be trusted to remain free.
All in all the best option is to either do your own resources and spend less time on actual mod, or avoid using additional resources and make simpler, feature poorer mod.
Great success of grorious capitalism.

Nobody and nothing is irreplaceable.

That depends on stuff like available talent pool and whether or not someone/something isn't already a cornerstone of your environment.

This was what you originally said: The stuff you want already exists. It's called independent game development.

No, that's not the stuff I want nor does it exist. The suggestion that, say, a full conversion mod is in line with a full-on indie game development process is asinine.

Indie development is commercialized and fully competitive. TES modding is non-commercial and largely cooperative. If you undermine reliance on other mods (that you compete with for player's finite cash in a commercial environment) then why not go all the way and toss the reliance on someone else's game out as well?

You do like your assumptions, along with a big bowl of bad comparisons.

Hyperbolas, if you don't mind.

We do not know what sort of system would unfold out of mods being paid for.

We can predict that and nothing in community's reaction (supporters of paid mods in particular) suggests anything to the contrary.

The argument that competition would be ruinous begs the question, what if it wasn't Skyrim? What if it was Elder Scrolls VI, fresh out of the oven? Would the argument revert to something else, all this verticality you speak of being nonexistent?

Then it would be less severe but I doubt TES VI will offer desired functionality without some script extender (not after MWSE, OBSE and SKSE) and critically important unofficial patches and mechanical overhauls.

Without the tangle of preexisting mods and with right provisions against selling essential modding resources and patches, plus provisions for taking cut when your resources are used commercially it might be workable. Something to limit profitability of minimalistic shitmods would be desirable as well.
Again, if I can pay for Beth's Dragonborn, I might as well pay for some modder's Hagge (Hagge was high quality PL content mod/mini expansion for Morrowind).

Feels before reals with a touch of authoritarianism.

Yes, 100k>10k is all feels and stuff.

What you've stated is fairly emotional. His $10k costs nobody anything but what they paid.

It cost community $100k of paid mods that would be made if his content was available for free - and that's conservatively speaking.
Again you can invest into such modder as developer (because his free mod will give you far more in cuts from other mods using it), donate as player, or give him opportunity to demand his cut from commercial modders, but you want his mod to come free of any sort of price tag because it fuels modding community that generates awsum content (from players' POV) and profits (from dev/Valve's POV if you have commercialized mods).
This is exact same reason why you don't want to sell your toolset but give it for free instead.

 

[TripJack]

By the way: is Skyrim any good?

fuck no

good rape mods tho

 

[mastroego]

He essentially says that Valve's retraction of paid mods is the fault of shitty people who want everything for free.
He's clearly pretty clueless about the whole ordeal. Check it: http://www.twitch.tv/lobosjr/v/4466128?t=2h52m16s He talks about it for a couple minutes.

GG Lobos.

Angels of heaven, nobody WANTS anything for free. We downloaded mods BECAUSE they were free.
MODDERS, GET A FUCKING GRIP!
We won't PAY for your shitty titty mods.
It was fun while it lasted, now GO GET A JOB

 

[mastroego]

Anyway those "behind the scenes" are illuminating.
So Valve contacted the modders first (not the other way around) and, in perfect Wormtongue style, they started putting sweet, tempting, Mephistofelic words to their ears:

"it's time you get proper recognition for your hard, majestic work... those filthy users would have you work for free, can you imagine that?! No more! You're only going to ask your due... what's yours by right... we're talking about your creations, your legacy here.... now, prepare to weather the storm... it's gonna be hard at first... you must hold on! Change always generates resistance...."

...and now the same Valve acts all casual, pious and shit.

 

[Bruticis]

Rekt like a house being blown up by a Creeper.

No, I don't remember. Who is this guy again?

 

[Metro]

Skyrim is good-for-what-it-is but not worth spending hours sifting through mods.

 

[Immortal]

Skyrim is good-for-what-it-is but not worth spending hours sifting through mods.

Skyrim doesn't become good-for-what-it-is until you maximize the what-it-is part. Skyrim is a bland open world RPG Engine that acts as a clean slate for modders to mold it into a good game.

Sifting through mods shouldn't be boring.. it's the best part. Think of mod downloading as a build your own adventure.

Want a "hardcore" rpg experience with static loot drops and a Level Curve? Requiem with Morrowloot patching

Want a Hentai rape experience.. Lovers Lab got you covered.

Pick and choose what dungeons / loot / graphics overhauls / ENB's / Player homes you want.. then go!

 

[Dreaad]

step 1: uninstall.exe
step 2: ???
step 3: profit

 

[Hegel]

Don't worry, I have no intention of embarking on such a journey

 

[RK47]

You can tune in on my steam streaming every night 7 PM (GMT+8)
Donations for KFC accepted.

 

[Caim]

Rekt like a house being blown up by a Creeper.

No, I don't remember. Who is this guy again?

He started Minecraft, then it got bought by Microsoft for two and a half billion dollars.

Yet still he cares. So I guess it's true what they say: Mo Money Mo Jang.

 

[Jasede]

Skyrim is good-for-what-it-is but not worth spending hours sifting through mods.

Skyrim doesn't become good-for-what-it-is until you maximize the what-it-is part. Skyrim is a bland open world RPG Engine that acts as a clean slate for modders to mold it into a good game.

Sifting through mods shouldn't be boring.. it's the best part. Think of mod downloading as a build your own adventure.

Want a "hardcore" rpg experience with static loot drops and a Level Curve? Requiem with Morrowloot patching

Want a Hentai rape experience.. Lovers Lab got you covered.

Pick and choose what dungeons / loot / graphics overhauls / ENB's / Player homes you want.. then go!

Who has time for this anymore?

Maybe if they made mod packs that already come pre-configured and compiled, sure. Hell, I'd download the furry rape mod compilation; you meanwhile can enjoy your maximum tittage. But who has time to sift through mods and download them one by one? I definitely don't, not even on weekends.

 

[thesoup]

am i the only one who finds it hilarious how (both of) their explanations touched upon how "this is not a money grabbing scheme to make some profit with 0 work whatsoever, seriously, we're making less than 1% of our daily revenue with this shit"... well, if money wasn't a factor and you're making peanuts, why take a cut at all, let alone 75% fucking percent of it! lulz. totally not to make money...

Am I only the one that finds it hilarious how people are shocked, appalled and unhinged that companies want to try to make lots and lots of money?

No, that's understandable. What's surprising is the support they're getting from people who won't see any of that money. I mean, the modders at least get some breadcrumbs. What do the drones get for fighting against their best interests? To quote one guy on Youtube: "I don't see the big deal. Besides, it's my money : ) ". It's actually a bit creepy.

How dare people use money as they see fit.:ehue:

 

[ArchAngel]

Skyrim is good-for-what-it-is but not worth spending hours sifting through mods.

Skyrim doesn't become good-for-what-it-is until you maximize the what-it-is part. Skyrim is a bland open world RPG Engine that acts as a clean slate for modders to mold it into a good game.

Sifting through mods shouldn't be boring.. it's the best part. Think of mod downloading as a build your own adventure.

Want a "hardcore" rpg experience with static loot drops and a Level Curve? Requiem with Morrowloot patching

Want a Hentai rape experience.. Lovers Lab got you covered.

Pick and choose what dungeons / loot / graphics overhauls / ENB's / Player homes you want.. then go!

Who has time for this anymore?

Maybe if they made mod packs that already come pre-configured and compiled, sure. Hell, I'd download the furry rape mod compilation; you meanwhile can enjoy your maximum tittage. But who has time to sift through mods and download them one by one? I definitely don't, not even on weekends.

I tried to fix my New Vegas with mods. Spent about 4-5 hours total learning it all and choosing mods, installing, making sure they are all working and the game is working. It didn't help much, the shitty game was still shitty and I quit it after 14h of playing.

Only mod that I know of that made the bad base game better is the Long war mod for new Xcom. And that was a huge mod that came in one package and installation was download one file and tell it to replace files in game folder.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

You're damn straight its a mod-user vs mod-author argument.

Over the 5 or so years i've modded Bethesda games at these nexus sites, i've come to realise that a portion of the community are selfish, entitled, and often outright abusive to mod authors (not everybody of course, but a portion) with their requests, demands and complaints, and many times i've pulled mods, or have logged off feeling absolutely outraged at the way I and my mods had been treated. How many of you can honestly say you've read, or been reading even a fraction of the things people have been saying over on steam? You know that one particular guy who ported the 3 DOTA swords for sale on the workshop? Have you seen his steam profile comments? The kinds of things that had been written... that sheer overwhelming hate, the pure evil. Its just disgusting. Point in hand, a mere taste of the popular opinion of the mod-user..

To everybody who has spent their venom over the paid mods scheme, and denied modders the first, best, and probably only chance to get ANYTHING back (even if it is 25 lousy %) in return for the hours we've put in, the abuse we've endured, I want to thank you from the very bottom of my heart... (not that I had any mods for sale, cause i stopped modding already 6 months or so ago)

OH, ITS "FOR THE LOVE OF MODDING" YOU SAY?
Rubbish. That love and passion for modding? That gets dashed on the rocks the moment you receive your first troll, your first abusive comment, your first person who throws a tantrum cause you don't want to fulfill the request that they're asking of you. Does anyone even remember the time when the nexus sites had a DIS-ENDORSE button? I cannot begin to relate just how many times my mods got dis-endorsed simply cause I didn't fulfill the requests people were demanding. Unless you are a real modder, you will NEVER understand what that's like. Your wear your heart on your sleeve when you make and release mods, cause you DO pour your heart, soul and energy into them. In a community with a lot of hateful, entitled, selfish, and downright evil people, why don't you go off and endure a few years of that abuse, and then come back and tell me I must only mod for the love and passion of it.

EDIT: I didn't write this because I can't handle trolls. I can, but that was not always the case; some form of immunity eventually arrives at some point. I'm still around because of this, but mostly because I still very much do love to mod, and I will continue to do so in the future, but every now again, someone needs to speak up about the vitriol that exists, else people have a tendency to keep looking the other way.


OH, THERE SHOULD ONLY BE A DONATE BUTTON?
hahaha. Its hard enough getting people to click a button to endorse a mod, let alone get people to use a donate button to give me the 5c they would rather keep.

Valve and Bethesda certainly fcuked things up, royally, for a long time to come. All I want to do is remove my mods cause at least half of the hateful, selfish people out there just don't deserve anything at all.

Read the comments people have been writing. Go and read them and tell me i'm not overreacting, that my feelings are unjustified.

Here are some excellent mods he has made (Shitty Horse Armor mods)

I think you sold him short, he's definitely provided more than just horse armors.

Spoiler

 

[Clockwork Knight]

How dare people use money as they see fit.:ehue:

Well, I suppose you can be happy to start paying companies for the right of enjoying hobby stuff that was free for the last five decades... just don't expect to be treated as if you were sane.

Who has time for this anymore?

Maybe if they made mod packs that already come pre-configured and compiled, sure. Hell, I'd download the furry rape mod compilation; you meanwhile can enjoy your maximum tittage. But who has time to sift through mods and download them one by one? I definitely don't, not even on weekends.

It takes like five minutes to read a description and drag the files to the game folder. Are you a CEO or something?

 

[DraQ]

By the way: is Skyrim any good?

Only if you install 150+ mods that include textures, unofficial fixes, gameplay overhauls (like requiem, skyre, or perma), interface mods like skyui, better animations, enhanced camera,etc,etc. If you're interested in playing, I suggest you start now cause a year from today I bet that valve and beth will come back with another payment model.

Nigga, plz.

For starters, if there existed any whatsoever combination of mods that let you enjoy Oblivious, then you should be perfectly capable of enjoying even unmodded Skyrim.
For modded Skyrim experience, you just need the typical suite of patches, SKSE and SkyUI (for mod configuration and to avoid sanity loss from interacting with GUI), then:

• Requiem (gameplay unfucker)
• Interesting NPCs (to liven up the game somewhat and add a lot of quests)

Optionally:

• Morrowloot (static loot, I mostly use it for TES artifacts as Requiem already handles the rest adequately)
• iHUD (although you can accomplish compass hiding with .ini tweaking)

Really optionally:

• cosmetic mods
  
• assorted item mods like immersive armors
  
• misc mods

Finally:

• Requiem compatibility patches.

fuck no

good rape mods tho

Only if Requiem counts as one.

(It tends to rape fresh players hard)