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Story spoiler thread.

VentilatorOfDoom

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I failed this quest by picking the kill-dialogue line when encountering the priest. Even if you're 100% certain the other guy is the culprit you can't confront him if you haven't questioned the priest before killing him. At one point later Geralt overheard people saying there is a new victim and he said to himself: Hmmm, turns out the priest wasn't the murderer after all. of course, the quest didn't fail, i.e. didn't end up in the failed quest category of the journal, I just failed to do the job properly and the vampire got away with it.
 

made

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I failed this quest by picking the kill-dialogue line when encountering the priest. Even if you're 100% certain the other guy is the culprit you can't confront him if you haven't questioned the priest before killing him. At one point later Geralt overheard people saying there is a new victim and he said to himself: Hmmm, turns out the priest wasn't the murderer after all. of course, the quest didn't fail, i.e. didn't end up in the failed quest category of the journal, I just failed to do the job properly and the vampire got away with it.
How does he get away? I killed the priest because he's a sick fuck but the quest was still open and the Fampyr was waiting in a nearby warehouse. Don't remember which dialogue choices I picked tho.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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I failed this quest by picking the kill-dialogue line when encountering the priest. Even if you're 100% certain the other guy is the culprit you can't confront him if you haven't questioned the priest before killing him. At one point later Geralt overheard people saying there is a new victim and he said to himself: Hmmm, turns out the priest wasn't the murderer after all. of course, the quest didn't fail, i.e. didn't end up in the failed quest category of the journal, I just failed to do the job properly and the vampire got away with it.
How does he get away? I killed the priest because he's a sick fuck but the quest was still open and the Fampyr was waiting in a nearby warehouse. Don't remember which dialogue choices I picked tho.
It probably happens if you pick the yellow "you have to die you piece of shit" line before first picking the white "why no formaldehyd" line, i.e. you kill him before getting info.
 

made

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IC well good to know you can fail it, whole thing could have been more fleshed-out and satisfying though, in place of all the tedious lead-up quests.
 

Surf Solar

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I did all the quests for Roche and Djikstra that were available to me, now I am in Act 3. I did never get any quest to further the plot to kill Radovid and also Phillipa the sorceress. Did I fuck something up?
 

Aeschylus

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IC well good to know you can fail it, whole thing could have been more fleshed-out and satisfying though, in place of all the tedious lead-up quests.
You actually don't fail it like that. Even if you straight up kill the guy who points you in the right direction, when you find evidence of more killings later it's possible to complete the quest as if you had figured it out.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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IC well good to know you can fail it, whole thing could have been more fleshed-out and satisfying though, in place of all the tedious lead-up quests.
You actually don't fail it like that. Even if you straight up kill the guy who points you in the right direction, when you find evidence of more killings later it's possible to complete the quest as if you had figured it out.
Can you elaborate?
 

Jick Magger

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I guess my only big complaint about the story, which I put in more detail in the other thread, is that the plot kinda loses all its intrigue after the Kaer Morhen battle. Sure, there's still the Reason of State secondary quest to get through, which has its own little series of twists and turns, but the main plot pretty much becomes a straight march from point A to point B. I mean, you've got all these characters who at the very least dislike one another, each of them with their own separate plans and agendas, and ultimately nothing comes of it. Phillipa obviously really wants Ciri to join The Lodge, and it's clear that all her talk of giving Ciri the leading role is just buttering her up to join so that she can control her, but ultimately all that ever comes of it is her politely asking you to get Yennefer out of Nilfgaard so she can become the Emperor's (and hopefully Ciri's) adviser, and then she basically disappears from the plot.

Avallac'h's also constantly hinted at having his own motives for helping Ciri, there's an entire mission dedicated to finding out whether or not he has his own agenda for helping Ciri, and when Eredin tells you that Avallac'h duped you both and has nabbed Ciri, which is followed literally by the world ending as he opens a portal between dimensions...it turns out the entire thing was a false alarm and she actually asked him to do it so she can stop the White Frost (which at this point has only been hinted at a few hours ago and only outright mentioned once during the intro to the game), he's actually been on the up-and-up the entire time.
 

Paul_cz

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And I'm still pissed you can't even bring up the fact she lied to you for two years about Geralt's memory.

I actually love how they handled this. Triss just says something like "well now you have your memory back, people won't be able to manipulate you", Geralt says "who was manipulating me?" and she replies "well I, for one" just completely matter of factly :)
 

Surf Solar

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I have never played a game before where quantity is same as quality like this.

Was anti book lore fag and kinda felt the Triss story comes a bit short unfortunately. Atleast "I" can live happily after the end with her.
Ciri also became a witcher, the "world" is united under the black sun banner.

I consider this to be the most perfect ending.

Nilfgard doesnt seem to be that bad. Temeria is a vassal state. What's there not to like.
 

yes plz

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I guess my only big complaint about the story, which I put in more detail in the other thread, is that the plot kinda loses all its intrigue after the Kaer Morhen battle. Sure, there's still the Reason of State secondary quest to get through, which has its own little series of twists and turns, but the main plot pretty much becomes a straight march from point A to point B. I mean, you've got all these characters who at the very least dislike one another, each of them with their own separate plans and agendas, and ultimately nothing comes of it. Phillipa obviously really wants Ciri to join The Lodge, and it's clear that all her talk of giving Ciri the leading role is just buttering her up to join so that she can control her, but ultimately all that ever comes of it is her politely asking you to get Yennefer out of Nilfgaard so she can become the Emperor's (and hopefully Ciri's) adviser, and then she basically disappears from the plot.

Avallac'h's also constantly hinted at having his own motives for helping Ciri, there's an entire mission dedicated to finding out whether or not he has his own agenda for helping Ciri, and when Eredin tells you that Avallac'h duped you both and has nabbed Ciri, which is followed literally by the world ending as he opens a portal between dimensions...it turns out the entire thing was a false alarm and she actually asked him to do it so she can stop the White Frost (which at this point has only been hinted at a few hours ago and only outright mentioned once during the intro to the game), he's actually been on the up-and-up the entire time.

I thought the story was fine up until the part where you go back to Novigrad to finish final preparations. It was that that the plot started to feel truncated -- the Wild Hunt's motivation and a lot of their background is given to you in a handful of cutscenes, the big war that TW2 built up was concluded in a small side quest, and the Lodge (another aspect that TW2 built up) was rescued and then they do... well not a whole lot.

Like I said in my initial post, I think they probably should've just cut Skellige and directed those resources to expanding the story and reactivity. Doing that would've made the game a good deal shorter but I think it would've also made it a more satisfying experience overall.
 

Jick Magger

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As for the whole "Geralt was soulless in the books" argument. Admittedly I've only read the first collection of short stories, but the only time I noticed thwt he acted truly emotionless and morally ambiguous was in the first story. Th rest of the book depicts him more as a fundamentally decent person who's bothered by the fact that he's a fundamentally decent person. He saves the werewolf guy in A Grain of Truth even after he left him and stood to gain nothing from helping him. Expresses rage at Stretogar at the end of The Lesser Evil, shows his emotional vulnerability by confessing his moral conflict over how him doing the right thing alway goes badly for him, saves Duny and Yennefer even though both acts could've easily gotten him killed, and he once again didn't really stand to get anything tangible from it, etc. It shows that when th e chips are down and he can't hide behind his 'Witcher Code' anymore, he tries to do the right thing, even when it's not in his best interest.
 

Azarkon

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I've already written my thoughts about the ending in the main thread, so I'm not going to post it again here. But I've heard people put this game's writing on the level of PST, and as an old school storyfag I have to disagree.

PST's writing is a level above Witcher's, not because of mechanical execution - I think Witcher's dialogue is easily on par - but in narrative construction:

Thematic consistency: PST had a focused story built around a powerful theme, and carried this theme all the way to the end. You begin as a man oblivious to, but haunted by, his past. Through the course of the narrative, you find out what this past is, and gather a group of allies who are themselves haunted by their pasts - pasts that, it turns out, are fundamentally intertwined with your own. As you near the end of the story, you are faced with the same choices and the same dilemmas that your past incarnations were faced with, and for a while it seem as though you can never escape it. Indeed, one of the most powerful moments in the game is when TTO tells you that all your companions are dead because they put their trust in you, thereby making you out to be another version of the Practical Incarnation. Yet, through belief - the force which has the power to unmake the planes themselves - you triumph against TTO, and your reward is simple self-realization in the form of your name, which you've gotten back now that you've come to terms with your past and are ready to take responsibility for your own actions.

By contrast, the Witcher games also start out with a fairly powerful theme: you can save people from monsters, but you can't save them from their own monstrosity. It builds upon this theme through showing you a land devastated by war, in which men are as responsible for the suffering as any monster: eg the Baron's brutal treatment of his wife, Radovid burning innocents at the stake, villagers sacrificing their own children for a decent harvest, Emhyr's cold and ruthless campaign, the Skellige clans' willingness to murder each other for the crown, etc. The problem, however, is that the game fails to take this theme to its logical conclusion. Instead, it falls back on a "save the world" story in which big bad Eredin is trying to destroy Ciri for inexplicable cause, and great old Avallach is trying to protect her so that she's able to save us all from the White Frost. In doing so, the game betrays its own themes and fails to keep its own ideas coherent. With pure & selfless characters on one side, and cliche evil villains on the other, the whole talk about humanity being its own monsters goes straight down the drain.

Character development: PST has a rich set of characters. All of them have flaws that tie into the story. Morte, for example, is a liar who lies to save his own skin, even when it's harmful to others, including the protagonist. Annah distrusts others and is difficult to get along with, but is stubbornly loyal to those who she does befriend, to a fault. Dak'kon, though wise on the surface, is tortured by the philosophical contradictions of his faith, and is enslaved by his personal honor. Fall-from-grace, in abandoning her nature as a succubus, has had to suppress her emotions, which becomes torturous as she comes to love TNO. The flaws of each of these characters are revealed to you through the course of the game, as your relationship with them deepen, and are not merely side quirks, but play into the bigger story of redemption and self-discovery that is at the heart of PST, as the player learns his own role in the suffering of others. PST also has several of the best villains that's ever graced RPGs: Ravel, Trias, the Practical and Paranoid Incarnations, The Transcendent One, and so on, whose motivations are both plausible and, in the case of Ravel, Trias, and the incarnations, tragic and sympathetic.

The Witcher also has a rich set of characters. All of them also have flaws. Triss is deeply in love with Geralt, but feels compelled to give him up because of her loyalty to her friends. Yennefer is torn between her desire to live a peaceful life and her political ambitions. Ciri is also torn - between her destiny at the side of her birth father, and her calling at the side of her adoptive father. Rouche is caught between patriotism and compromise. Djikstra on the other side of the same. The problem, however, is that besides Ciri, you barely ever explore these characters' inner turmoil. You never deal with Triss's unrequited love, except by choosing her, in which case the whole problem is forgotten. You never deal with Yennefer's conflict, except by agreeing to retire with her, in which case again, all's forgotten. All the while Zolten, Dandelion, etc. are just there for comic relief and the antagonists are among the worst, most cliche bads you ever face in a game. There is barely any character development, not even for Geralt, and certainly not for the villains.

Depth of ideas: don't get me wrong, medieval fantasy is fundamentally disadvantaged vs. the Torment universe in depth of ideas because the tropes in medieval fantasy are simply cliche when put besides the New Weird of Sigil. I don't think I need to even give examples in this case. That said, there are still themes in medieval fantasy worth exploring, and initially, as stated in the previous section, the Witcher explores them - what is the role of a witcher in a world in which men are as monstrous as monsters? How do you judge between two groups, both of which are just trying to survive? Do you have the right to take away people's comfort in their own superstitious beliefs? Does making moral decisions always equal sticking by your gut?

The problem, however, is that none of these ideas are ever taken to their logical conclusion. Whereas PST both asks "what can change the nature of a man?" and develops it into an answer, the Witcher never develops its themes much past the surface. Instead, we are given convenient black and white archetypes at the end of the game: Wild Hunt evil, Geralt & friends righteous; Radovid/Emhyr/Djikstra as ruler bad, Ciri as ruler awesome; Eredin power-hungry regicide, Avallach noble elven sage. Even what depth Sapowski put into these characters is lost as the game, in its final act, effectively divides its cast into moral opposites, while the whole "what is a monster, anyway" idea is forgotten altogether.

To end: PST is still the best written RPG ever. Even though in terms of dialogue construction, cinematic execution, voice acting, Witcher easily out performs it, when it comes to thematic consistency, character development, and depth of ideas, PST wins every time.
 

Gerrard

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I failed this quest by picking the kill-dialogue line when encountering the priest. Even if you're 100% certain the other guy is the culprit you can't confront him if you haven't questioned the priest before killing him. At one point later Geralt overheard people saying there is a new victim and he said to himself: Hmmm, turns out the priest wasn't the murderer after all. of course, the quest didn't fail, i.e. didn't end up in the failed quest category of the journal, I just failed to do the job properly and the vampire got away with it.
If you just kill the guy you can read the character description in the glossary and it will spoil who the real killer was immediately after the quest is over saying more victims turned up.
 

Beastro

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Finally, the Wild Hunt is explored a bit in Act 3, and one gets to know more about their nature and whatnot. I do agree that they could have done with far more screen time and fleshing out. On the other hand, when I played Witcher 1 way back in 2007 without any knowledge about the series, I found the Wild Hunt to be far more menacing as antagonists before I learnt more about them in W2 and W3.

I find when it comes to things like them the less explained the better, the less their around and in your face the better.

I'd have rather had them remain other-wordly beings that like to dabble in our world not to do huge, world changing events, but to pick someone and toy with them, like they alluded to in W1 where they accused Geralt or being a agent of chaos and thus the antithesis of everything he felt he was. It left me feeling the major arc of future games would be Geralt trying to adhere to his Witcher ethos with them dancing in and out of his life pointing out that his actions are only helping to sow discord in the world.
 

Gerrard

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A lot of the shit after the Kaer Morhen battle was :retarded:
Imlerith's case in particular.

I wonder if they didn't end up changing things in a hurry late in the making again.
 

Tigranes

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Azarkon is basically right. Now I actually wish Kaer Morhen was the end, the only piece of good content after that is the Radovid sidequest resolution.

You get shitty boring battles (everything Wild Hunt), shitty boring characters (Wild Hunt) with terrible shitty Darth Vader Orc voices (Wild Hunt)... OK, yeah, so everything where the Wild Hunt actually features as opposed to just being a premonition or a storm leaving a gory mess, is shit, because they are utter shit. herp derp I AM EVULLLLL

Everything after Kaer Morhen is also linear as fuck, you just follow the breadcrumbs (literally, for the players stupid enough to turn them on), and the writing isn't anywhere as good as those that came before it.

My ending was also weird. So I go up the tower, and Ciri, who thus far has shown a juvenile resistance to anyone telling her what to do & has also spent most of the game yelling at Avallach & confides in Geralt, now completely does a bolt face, deceives Geralt in a massive way in working with Avallach for what is essentially his end goal. O-kay. So then you're set up with a loaded question: the world will end if I don't do this, so are you going to try and stop me? I'm going to do it anyway. Sounds like not much of a choice. So I say nothing and let her go.

And then I get a nice, understated scene where Geralt speaks to Emhyr, and to CDPR's credit the Emperor does nothing like showing any grief or regret. Nicely done. Geralt gets a sword and can engrave it in her memory. Very nice too. And then, uh, turns out girl is just fine after all. Alright. I'm sure Emyhr will continue to be fooled when, according to the end slides, everyone in the North is talking about an ashen-haired girl witcher...

The romances / Geralt's personal life decisions also get wrapped up in a hurry, although this is meant to be the end of Geralt for the players. If you fuck Triss and ditch Yennefer, for example, the rest of the game still basically proceeds as if Yennefer's got you by the balls, you just don't get the sex. Triss gets like 3 lines afterwards, doesn't even feature at all in the endgame except for the one slide.

The political resolution also seems fucked up. The Radovid resolution is interesting, even if contrived - the idea that Dijkstra is going to suddenly pop up and become king of Redania is weird as fuck, though I don't know how that actually plays out as I chose for Roche. But in that case, your ending slides are (1) Emhyr wins dominion over the North, (2) Temeria wins freedom as a client state... show me one time in history where a small and weak nation negotiates its client-state status, the big nation immediately is victorious over its other enemies, and the client state still survives more than a year or two.

Still a good game but now I think TW2 was better constructed. Too long, too bloated, the glory of Velen and the Baron fades further and further from memory as you trudge through the meh.
 

Carrion

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I think the Kaer Morhen battle is already pretty bad, for numerous reasons.

1) The first thing is the "gather allies" part, which is a pretty tired cliché and just sounds like a hasty solution for somehow tying all those cool side quests into the main story. The whole part just makes zero sense because Kaer Morhen is so fucking far out in the wilds. Keira and Letho coming there is OK, because they actually have a reason for that and you met them way earlier in the game. Triss too, as she can just teleport there. Ermion has a reason for being there too, even though I can't see how he makes it there before Geralt seeing how he's apparently taking a boat or something. I suppose Zoltan would want to go there as well because he knows Ciri from earlier and doesn't really have anything better to do.

But Roche and Ves? Why on earth would Roche abandon his men for weeks? The war is reaching a critical phase, he simply shouldn't have the chance for that. And why does he bring Ves and only Ves, out of all people? In TW2 Ves was just one of his soldiers, but now she's somehow special because she's the only person aside from Roche who has a name? I love Roche, but this just went beyond fan service territory, a completely implausible turn of events.

Then there's Hjalmar, a guy that might be the ruler of Skellige at that point but who arrives there alone, or with a friend or two. Why? How? With the threat of Nilfgaard looming large and all that, he surely shouldn't be leaving the isles. But okay, whatever, maybe he's just leaving on a quest to seek glory, something that king Bran did all the time too, and battling the Wild Hunt surely seems like a worthy task. He still couldn't spare at least a dozen men or so, instead of opting to go alone or with a couple of his pals? It's fucking weird no matter how you look at it.

To make things worse, there's only one optional character that matters even one bit in the fight and that is Keira. The rest might as well not be there.

2) You get to make some preparations for the battle, but it amounts to absolutely nothing. You can choose to patch up the wall or raid the armory, but this has no effect on how the battle plays out: the former choice does precisely nothing as far as I can tell, the latter gives you a sword that's almost certainly useless at that point of the game. Considering all the possible ways your allies and preparations could've affected the course of the battle and lead into some meaningful C&C, it's just a huge missed opportunity.

3) The actual battle just *feels* off in a witcher game. I loved the big battle scenes in the previous two games, but Geralt was always involved in them unwillingly, or he was just caught in the middle of other people's battles while pursuing personal goals. How he's the leader in an Epic Battle, and it's about as far from being a simple witcher you can get. The battle doesn't really even feel like a battle but rather a collection of small set pieces and skirmishes, and it would've been much more effective if it was a continuous scene, with fewer cutscenes and without switching PoV's in the middle of it. And of course there's the ending that includes some literal cutscene paralysis for Geralt (why didn't they just kill him then and there?), something that happens again later in the game. The battle of Vergen in TW2 was something similar, but it was much more intense on so many levels even if Geralt had no real reason to even care about its participants or the outcome.

As for what comes afterwards, there's definitely a big drop in quality in many places, like Ciri pulling Imlerith's location out of her ass, or the conversations with Ge'els who you can just walk up to without anyone trying to stop you and who for some mysterious reason agrees to come with you alone (even though I like the quest otherwise). The final battle is even worse than Kaer Morhen, basically consisting of a couple of very short corridors with a boss fight at the end of each of them. The tower is of course a slap in the face, especially after Yennefer tells you about all the awesome things that you might find inside but aren't there. The politics of the game are also one of its most disappointing aspects, as they're handled in the most simplistic way possible, basically with a single short questline deciding the fate of nations. Dijkstra is a well-written character, Emhyr and Philippa too, but Roche and Thaler rely too much on their charms in the previous games whereas Radovid is reduced to being almost a cartoon villain. People tend to dislike the last act of TW2, but for the whole game I was hoping for TW3 to deliver something similar and it never came. Even the small side quest they added to Roche's path in the EE regarding Foltest's bastards was more interesting than all the political play in TW3.

I think the main quest has one big flaw, and that is the Wild Hunt. Almost everything that deals directly with it sucks in one way or another, and the writers just didn't seem to know what to do with it. There's the twist that they're actually just a race of elves, except that this aspect leads to absolutely nothing and they might've as well been just portrayed as some ancient monsters, except that trolls, werewolves, vampires and succubi may at least have some actual personality and depth. Some of the blame is on Sapkowski, but I really would've expected better from CDPR. I think the Wild Hunt would've worked better as more of a secondary thing, a threat that is out there but cannot be fought directly, and the endgame could've focused more on all the different sides that want something out of Ciri, perhaps making the war more than just a background in the process. If the Wild Hunt simply attacked at some point without warning and Geralt killed Eredin right there, I would've been perfectly fine with it. I was kind of expecting one last chapter where you'd need to deal with Nilfgaard, Avallac'h and perhaps the sorceresses once and for all after defeating the Wild Hunt, but it never came.

I must say I did love the epilogues, though.
 
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Gerrard

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I think the Kaer Morhen battle is already pretty bad, for numerous reasons.

1) The first thing is the "gather allies" part, which is a pretty tired cliché and just sounds like a hasty solution for somehow tying all those cool side quests into the main story. The whole part just makes zero sense because Kaer Morhen is so fucking far out in the wilds.
Not to mention that nobody should know where it is and how to get there except for the witchers and Triss, and if you could just teleport there then Triss would not have bothered riding there through a fucking blizzard at the beginning of Blood of Elves.
But hey, CDPR pissing all over the canon, that is unheard of!


Oh yeah, and throughout the whole game Geralt uses the silver sword to fight the Wild Hunt dudes. Because these elves are somehow weak to silver? Not to mention they are clad from head to to in heavy armor.
 
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Carrion

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But hey, CDPR pissing all over the canon, that is unheard of!
Speaking of this, it's been a while since I read The Eternal Fire, but didn't dopplers in the books have to be within eyesight of those they wanted to transform into? In the game they can basically take any form they want to at any time, even those of dead people whose bodies have burned unrecognizable, which should make them ridiculously powerful and potentially extremely dangerous if one of them wanted to become, say, an assassin. They also absorb some of the characteristics and thoughts of the people they turn into, which makes Dudu feel very uncomfortable when he briefly takes Menge's form, yet he might eventually become a fake Whoreson Junior even though Whoreson's probably the most irredeemable piece of shit in Novigrad. I guess he just isn't that bothered by the urge to murder a couple of whores or gouge people's eyes out every now and then.

Generally I don't mind CDPR taking creative freedom with the lore, as Sapkowski occasionally contradicts himself as well and quite frankly goes full retard at times, but it does lead to some issues in places. The questions about teleportation (like the stuff about Kaer Morhen or the mages needing a ship to get out of Novigrad instead of just casting a spell) could probably be explained away with some magic mumbo jumbo as we really don't know the technical aspects of how that stuff works, but the game could at least acknowledge those questions in some way.
 

Carrion

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As for the teleportation thing, Yenn mentions when she goes to Kaer Mohren how she can't teleport herself along with Geralt, Uma and the horse, so I guess there's a limit to how many persons can step through one of those portals. That would explain why the mages needed a ship to get out of Novigrad, since some of them were not mages but mere alchemists, herbalists etc.
Yeah, but I think there were only around 30 people overall. Since you clearly can teleport at least one person with you, a handful of capable mages could've teleported them all with just a few trips, at least somewhere outside Novigrad if not all the way to Kovir. It didn't bother me all that much because you could easily come up with some kind of explanation for it (maybe the witch hunters have a way of detecting magic use?), it's just weird that you can't even ask about it since the sorceresses in the game use teleports all the time.
 

Storyfag

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So, finished the gaem.

REDANIA STRONK. Dear Leader Dijkstra Best And Grorious! Ciri aliv in Redania on the Witcher's Path. And of course Geralt and Yen lived happily ever after.

As has been mentioned, the game is in serious need of more epilogue slides concerning Zoltan, Dandelion, Philippa, Voorhis, etc. But I am certain CDPR will provide such in due time.

Quite disappointed the game doesn't ask you about the fate of Jacques de Aldersberg. Not giving his soul to the Wild Hunt seemed pretty important way back in TW1. Also disappointed there was no cameo of High Priest Willemer, who *will* get his hands on Philippa in a couple of years, as mentioned in the novels. He'd see eye to eye with Radovid and make a splendid advisor.

Oxenfurt seemed underdeveloped, with what, 5 quests total?

In spite of the above, I am overall pleased with the game. Reloaded once, loosing a couple of hours of progress, but I simply could not cope with the consequences of releasing the tree spirit.
 

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