Decline Sword Coast Legends Pre-Release Thread

[Cyberarmy]

Can Sword Coast Legends Bring Left 4 Dead to Dungeons & Dragons?

Herp derp, for a good amount of time I read that one as " Can SCL bring the dead D&D back"

 

[Rostere]

I haven't been following this for a while, have you guys found out it's a cheap popamole moneygrab yet?

 

[Ramireza]

I haven't been following this for a while, have you guys found out it's a cheap popamole moneygrab yet?

What they have in mind will not work IMO.

Not shiny and "cool" enough to get the AAA audience and to flat and shallow to get the "hardcore (*)" RPG nerds.

NOONE wants a poor mens DA:O.


* "hardcore" nowadays = no quest navi, you have to think before do your next step

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

NOONE wants a poor mens DA:O.

At the moment I think we're waiting to see whether it's a poor man's DA:O or a poor man's DA:I.

Should find out soon as they're demoing the game right now at GDC so more detailed info will finally be coming out.

What I find a bit sad is I spent some time on their forums looking for info and came across lots of comments from old timer pnp players as well as a lot of the NWN designer/modder community, all very hopeful about a decent 5e implementation. There's going to be major disappointment, I fear.

 

[veevoir]

NOONE wants a poor mens DA:O.

What I find a bit sad is I spent some time on their forums looking for info and came across lots of comments from old timer pnp players as well as a lot of the NWN designer/modder community, all very hopeful about a decent 5e implementation. There's going to be major disappointment, I fear.

Especially if you add to that all the PR-talk, dodgy replies that avoid the very question and non-answer devs give at the forums (reading FAQ is such a joy!).
While I understand devs not committing to stuff at this stage - most of those answers are worded in a way only the stiffest suit from PR & Marketing could say that.

We'll see what GDC brings though. In general it sounds good, but the devil, as always, is in the details.

 

[jimmy_pvish]

The more I know about this game.
The more I feel about it.

 

[Gulnar]

The more i read about this game, the worse it becomes.


And to those guys saying that 'bird view ruin immershun':

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Saw another interview/GDC preview, dealing with DM mode.
http://www.gamersnexus.net/news/1841-sword-coast-legends-dm-mode-detailed-preview

In Sword Coast Legends, the DM uses her "threat level" to place monsters, lock doors, set traps, or otherwise manipulate the dungeon. Threat is effectively the currency for the DM, and can only be regained by building a rewarding scenario for the player. If the DM is responsible for a "TPK" (Total Party Kill) as a result of an unrealistically challenging encounter, the DM will actually lose threat level as a reminder of her role. Bringing parties to the brink of death -- without wiping the party -- is rewarded with more threat.

Tabletop players know that DMs often "fudge" die rolls to ensure a party isn't over- or underwhelmed with combat and encoutners. To this end, Sword Coast Legends grants DMs the ability to promote and demote monsters, dynamically remove or add monsters from play, and directly assist or hinder the player's party in combat. The DM can also conceal doorways to create secret treasure rooms, awarding parties that actively search, or plan ambushes at the height of tension.

The DM is represented as a wisp on the screen, so whenever the DM is near, the player knows that the wisp represents the cursor location.

 

[Bubbles]

If the DM is responsible for a "TPK" (Total Party Kill) as a result of an unrealistically challenging encounter, the DM will actually lose threat level as a reminder of her role.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Yes, it seems that if the party does something retarded and dies the DM is nerfed "as a reminder of her role".

As for the stuff about "knowing when the DM is near", WTF.

Lost all hope on this long ago, now just watching the slow-motion car crash as the details are revealed.

 

[zero29]

...the DM uses her "threat level" to...

so the dm is a woman utilizing her threat level?

 

[Trodat]

The DM mode was bound to be retarded, we may still get a solid 40 hour long "good for what it is" SP campaign in a D&D universe.

 

[FuriousGamer87]

If the DM is responsible for a "TPK" (Total Party Kill) as a result of an unrealistically challenging encounter, the DM will actually lose threat level as a reminder of her role. Bringing parties to the brink of death -- without wiping the party -- is rewarded with more threat.
Tabletop players know that DMs often "fudge" die rolls to ensure a party isn't over- or underwhelmed with combat and encoutners. To this end, Sword Coast Legends grants DMs the ability to promote and demote monsters, dynamically remove or add monsters from play, and directly assist or hinder the player's party in combat. The DM can also conceal doorways to create secret treasure rooms, awarding parties that actively search, or plan ambushes at the height of tension.

So, basically the DM shouldn't haven't any fun at all?



Are they sure they are making a game or a D&D movie editor?

 

[Bubbles]

Bringing parties to the brink of death -- without wiping the party -- is rewarded with more threat.

To this end, Sword Coast Legends grants DMs the ability to promote and demote monsters, dynamically remove or add monsters from play, and directly assist or hinder the player's party in combat.

So basically they're incentivising making every battle last as long as humanly possible. Is there full regeneration after every battle as well?

 

[Alchemist]

That "threat level" DM mechanic sounds completely retarded. As does the DM's wisp showing up in-world. I hope we can toggle that shit off.

The threat level thing is clearly meant to prevent DMs griefing their players. There is a much better solution to that: don't play with asshole DMs! (this also works in real life) Or put in some kind of rating system maybe. A DM should have total tyrannical control over the game world - tying his powers to a game mechanic is unacceptable.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

That "threat level" DM mechanic sounds completely retarded.

Sure does.

As does the DM's wisp showing up in-world.

Sure does.

I hope we can toggle that shit off.

Me t- Wait you think this shit's actually gonna be playable?

This whole project is reeking more and more like a misguided cash grab for the Kickstarter audience. The blatant refusal by the devs to give ANY sort of meaningful details on gameplay other than: "Hay GuiZ! It's DND (minus half of the base content in any edition since 1st)! Don't you love the Sword Coast (or maybe Storm? Apparently we can't be fucked to proof our press releases)?! Also DMs (now with MMO-inspired aggro mechanics)! "

The general lack of clarity or focus that's been inadvertently communicated is staggering.
Take a look at their boards. You will find every variety of rube there claiming that the game will be everything from BG3 to PoR5 to Diablo4. Meanwhile the devs sit around circle-jerking about how they can't reveal any system mechanics or details (you know, the actual GAME part of the game they just announced) yet, but they're in tune with their fans and yadayadayadabarf. At this point they would have a hard time selling me on this game if it shipped with hookers and blow.

I don't know why I'm so bitter about this shit. I guess it's mostly just due to getting burned by "RPG" developers/publishers the past decade-plus, but at this point, fuck anyone who tries to exploit muh nostalgia by slapping brands/settings I loved as a kid onto their product.

Here's a general bit of advice to publishers: if you want to sell me a DnD game, try making a faithful adaptation of the things that make DnD distinct from other schlocky high-fantasy offerings.
Namely: crunchy, often-times broken, turn-based combat. The minute I see that as the chief advertised feature on a cRPG, I will pre-order it, and I won't even hold it against you if it turns out to be shit.

 

[Shannow]

That "threat level" DM mechanic sounds completely retarded. As does the DM's wisp showing up in-world. I hope we can toggle that shit off.

The threat level thing is clearly meant to prevent DMs griefing their players. There is a much better solution to that: don't play with asshole DMs! (this also works in real life) Or put in some kind of rating system maybe. A DM should have total tyrannical control over the game world - tying his powers to a game mechanic is unacceptable.

Well, as I read it - and granted, that may be the completely wrong way to read it, since I find the whole idea unappealing -, this threat mechanic is a rating system. Albeitely automated. And it sounds like the DM has absolute control. I didn't read that as the powers being dependant threat lvl. Seemed to me, t-level is more something to help PUGs choose a strange DM. And for dick measuring purposes between DMs... (Though you may be right and I'm reading it wrong.)

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

I didn't read that as the powers being dependant threat lvl. Seemed to me, t-level is more something to help PUGs choose a strange DM. And for dick measuring purposes between DMs... (Though you may be right and I'm reading it wrong.)

This bit seems to imply that a DM's powers are based on threat level:

In Sword Coast Legends, the DM uses her "threat level" to place monsters, lock doors, set traps, or otherwise manipulate the dungeon. Threat is effectively the currency for the DM, and can only be regained by building a rewarding scenario for the player.

 

[Grunker]

Only bad DMs "fudge" die rolls

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Only bad DMs "fudge" die rolls

Huh. Not to derail this thread, but I would not expect such a blanket statement from you. Can you elaborate?

Or am I just missing my sarcasm check?

 

[Darth Roxor]

The elaboration is that you are a bad DM if you fudge rolls.

 

[Grunker]

Rules are fundamentally the arbitrary judge in games like physics are in real life. If I play in a game and a GM "fudges" a roll, it's basically the same as that GM changing the rules to go easy on me or alternatively changing the rules because I did too well. It's like switching from Hard to Easy because I can't handle it, or vice versa. We agreed that the world works in such-and-such a way, but suddenly the world works differently because it's more convenient? Fudged rolls are to rule-heavy P&P what deus ex machina are to literature.

A GM "fudging" a roll is like an invisible hand or awesome button gently guiding me through a video game.

Rules are the one thing in P&P that needs 100% clarity and adherence from both players and GM, otherwise what's the point in simulating the experience at all? You can change the rules of course, edit them however you'd like, even play games with no rules at all, if it's just about story and player interaction with that. But if you agree to adhere to a common structure, deviating from it because "it'd make for a better story" or somesuch convenience is the number one destroyer of any immersion for me.

The key aspect of P&P is player interaction with a GM construct. If the rules are not set in stone once agreed upon, then the player interaction is nullified. GM manipulation with rules is negation of player influence.

(If everyone in the group agrees to throw that influence to the wind and prioritize convenience over the simulation, then fair enough - you should do whatever works for you. This does not change the objective fact that manipulation is negation, though, and you need to be aware of that. For my part I would not enjoy playing in such a game.)

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Lost all hope on this long ago, now just watching the slow-motion car crash as the details are revealed.

Read the first infos, saw the first screenshots, never had any hope.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Ok, sorry yes I agree with you. I thought your quotation marks were implying something else. I misunderstood.

Edit: Regarding Grunker's previous post.

 

[Lord Andre]

whoever owns D&D now are retards for giving the license for a shitty adaptation, just as they were retards for moving away over the years from their core mechanics, all in search of that casual dollar. greed gets them all in the end.