Decline Sword Coast Legends Pre-Release Thread

[prodigydancer]

I expect the rules to be as close to D&D as possible.

I suppose it's time to lower your expectations. If they manage to pull an average ARPG with a moderately good combat system, it'll be a huge success for them already. With the kind of game they seem to be making sticking too close to D&D rules may actually make things worse.

 

[Trodat]

Key members in this project are too old. Tudge and co are comfortable men with families and they just want to have fun. Basically every great classic released in the past had a young (late 20s early 30s) guy or guys in the critical positions and obviously they were determined to make something that would shock (in a positive way) the gaming world.

 

[imweasel]

Oh good, I was worried they might have actually tied #missiles to character level, and might have actually followed a single d&d rule. Now, it's a straight point buy system. Each pip will net a permanent new missile. Just as HP Surge II will net the fighter a permanent boost to regeneration.

I did give some thought to what a spellslotted cooldown hotbar would look like. Little selectable numbers over the box so power slot could be selected on the fly., and thus offer choice between damage vs cooldown time. But that would be way too complex for what they're going for.

It is hard to say how close the rules are to D&D 5E actually are without looking under the hood or playing the game. I can only tell that they are very flexible and maybe somewhat lax with their implementation.

I suppose it's time to lower your expectations. If they manage to pull an average ARPG with a moderately good combat system, it'll be a huge success for them already. With the kind of game they seem to be making sticking too close to D&D rules may actually make things worse.

I wasn't expecting a Baldur's Gate 3 to start with.

The game still appeals to me, although I know that it won't be a Baldur's Gate 3.

 

[ArchAngel]

Oh good, I was worried they might have actually tied #missiles to character level, and might have actually followed a single d&d rule. Now, it's a straight point buy system. Each pip will net a permanent new missile. Just as HP Surge II will net the fighter a permanent boost to regeneration.

I did give some thought to what a spellslotted cooldown hotbar would look like. Little selectable numbers over the box so power slot could be selected on the fly., and thus offer choice between damage vs cooldown time. But that would be way too complex for what they're going for.

It is hard to say how close the rules are to D&D 5E actually are without looking under the hood or playing the game. I can only tell that they are very flexible and maybe somewhat lax with their implementation.

Flexible? Lax? LOL

More like crappy and terrible.

 

[ArchAngel]

I expect the rules to be as close to D&D as possible.

I suppose it's time to lower your expectations. If they manage to pull an average ARPG with a moderately good combat system, it'll be a huge success for them already. With the kind of game they seem to be making sticking too close to D&D rules may actually make things worse.

Even if they manage to make a good aRPG or whatever, it will still not be a D&D game. I don't have a problem with someone making a new good dungeon siege like aRPG, but why cannot we get a proper D&D game after all these years and why did they try to market this game as something else than a Dungeon Siege spiritual successor?

 

[prodigydancer]

I don't have a problem with someone making a new good dungeon siege like aRPG, but why cannot we get a proper D&D game after all these years and why did they try to market this game as something else than a Dungeon Siege spiritual successor?

The latter question is easy to answer. The DS franchise is dead in the water now that Obsidian has successfully blown their chance to make something bigger (like a true RPG or strategy/RPG) out of DS3. And nobody wants their product to be associated with a burned out brand.

Now as for why the developers cannot stay true to D&D - it's much more of a mystery. My wild guess would be that WotC don't see any money in true adaptations after ToEE. Of course all of Troika games were extremely niche, so ToEE isn't necessarily a good indicator of how well a true D&D-based video game could possibly perform. But business guys are often blind to such fine nuances.

 

[Infinitron]

The latter question is easy to answer. DS franchise is dead in the water now that Obsidian has successfully blown their chance to make something bigger (like a true RPG or strategy/RPG) out of DS3.

implying it was Obsidian's choice what genre of game to make

The IP belongs to Square Enix. They wanted a cheapo ARPG, and they got one.

 

[Trodat]

First Dungeon Siege is still superior to it's successors.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm going to pretend you mean "superior screensaver".

 

[prodigydancer]

implying it was Obsidian's choice what genre of game to make

The IP belongs to Square Enix. They wanted a cheapo ARPG, and they got one.

OK, fair enough about the choice of the genre but you can't deny that Obsidian switched to total half-ass mode while they were making DS3, can you? They probably knew from day one it would end up sub-par so I can somewhat understand their low morale but the fact remains: they neither argued with Square Enix nor tried their best to mold the material they were given into something playable. And it'll always be a stain on their reputation.

First Dungeon Siege is still superior to it's successors.

It because the successors were terrible though, not because DS was all that great.

 

[Trodat]

First Dungeon Siege is still superior to it's successors.

It because the successors were terrible though, not because DS was all that great.

It's been a long time but when I tried DS2 around when it was released I immediately felt dislike towards it and couldn't keep playing. Now I haven't touched that game for like 10 years and looking at some youtube vids it actually LOOKS quite decent. Maybe I should give it a second chance...

 

[Infinitron]

OK, fair enough about the choice of the genre but you can't deny that Obsidian switched to total half-ass mode when they were making DS3, can you?

I may have thought that, but then I learnt that they made the game on an almost Kickstarter-sized budget. No joke.

 

[prodigydancer]

I learnt that they made the game on an almost Kickstarter-sized budget. No joke.

You mean it could be a PoE scale game? No joke?

 

[Infinitron]

Dem apples, dem oranges

 

[Tigranes]

Remember when they said POE can't be made on Onyx engine because that would be way too expensive for KS budget? Well, guess what engine DS3 used.

 

[Roguey]

Three million is still too low. Likely 2-3x that.

Oh wait PoE got 4 million, in that case, about twice that. It makes a difference. Also things that eat up costs: multiplatform development, multiplayer.

OK, fair enough about the choice of the genre but you can't deny that Obsidian switched to total half-ass mode while they were making DS3, can you?

It's their most well-managed released product to date, so yes I can deny that.

they neither argued with Square Enix nor tried their best to mold the material they were given into something playable.

Ziets wanted the character system to be pseudo-sim garbage more in-line with the previous games, but Chapman disagreed.

And it'll always be a stain on their reputation.

Chapman got a job at Blizzard because of it, and it was a step in the removal of their "Obsidian always releases buggy, unfinished games" reputation. Ultimately it was forgettable. People are always going to be angrier at kotor2's non-ending and AP's inept combat and stealth (also AP actually bombed, unlike DS3, which both sold more copies than AP and made some money, in part due its extremely low budget. It wasn't the megahit S-E absurdly expected it to be, but sometimes you gotta spend money to make it).

 

[prodigydancer]

It's their most well-managed released product to date, so yes I can deny that.

People are always going to be angrier at kotor2's non-ending and AP's inept combat and stealth

MC user ratings:
KotOR2: 83
AP: 75
DS3: 46

 

[Necroscope]

I made a poll on their forums - it will change nothing but may piss them off a bit (so vote if you have an account there).

 

[imweasel]

"This is a poll-only topic"

The poll will fall off the first page pretty quickly if nobody can add a comment to bump it up, Necroscope.

 

[Necroscope]

"This is a poll-only topic"

The poll will fall off the first page pretty quickly if nobody can add a comment to bump it up, Necroscope.

I didn't know when I started it, guess I'll hit the mods to unlock the replies.

 

[Roguey]

MC user ratings:
KotOR2: 83
AP: 75
DS3: 46

Metacritic wasn't big when kotor 2 was released. That score would be abysmally low if it had been. For perspective: the response to kotor2's bugs and unfinished ending was so bad that Feargus Urquhart openly considered shutting down the Obsidian forums. This hasn't happened since.

AP has a small-but-vocal group of superfans who like what it does with cutscenes and dialogue.

DS fans were extremely angry about multiplayer and the state of keyboard/mouse controls when it shipped. Naturally, it was better-received on consoles, but you see, the thing that lifts scores are a significant number of people who really like something. DS3 had a small number of people who didn't like it, and a larger number of people who thought "eh that was all right I guess" which is to be expected when you decide you're going to play it extremely safe with a low-budget (by big studio multiplatform standards) release.

 

[Morality Games]

I don't have a problem with someone making a new good dungeon siege like aRPG, but why cannot we get a proper D&D game after all these years and why did they try to market this game as something else than a Dungeon Siege spiritual successor?

The latter question is easy to answer. The DS franchise is dead in the water now that Obsidian has successfully blown their chance to make something bigger (like a true RPG or strategy/RPG) out of DS3. And nobody wants their product to be associated with a burned out brand.

Now as for why the developers cannot stay true to D&D - it's much more of a mystery. My wild guess would be that WotC don't see any money in true adaptations after ToEE. Of course all of Troika games were extremely niche, so ToEE isn't necessarily a good indicator of how well a true D&D-based video game could possibly perform. But business guys are often blind to such fine nuances.

Not a real mystery. Baldur's Gate 2 sold like 2 million copies, Dragon Age sold like 5 million.

More importantly, D&D makes simple board and card games that are meant to be bait people into buying/playing the more complex P&P RPG. Likely the same production attitude extends to whatever cRPGs they are willing to create.

 

[prodigydancer]

Dragon Age sold like 5 million.

Where did you get that from?

Up until February 2010, Dragon Age: Origins had sold "triple platinum", that is more than 3.2 million copies, worldwide.

Far from spectacular for a multiplatform game.

 

[Azeot]

DAO came out 9 years after BG2. Saying that it sold more copies than BG2 is like saying that trains have more volume of traffic nowadays than 90 yrs ago.
Edit: assuming the quality is the same.

 

[Morality Games]

Dragon Age sold like 5 million.

Where did you get that from?

Up until February 2010, Dragon Age: Origins had sold "triple platinum", that is more than 3.2 million copies, worldwide.

Far from spectacular for a multiplatform game.

I added up the PS3 (1.63 million), Xbox 360 (2.53 million), and Microsoft Windows (.51 million) sales on vgchartz, making the assumption that their PC sales were less than half actual sales because of digital copies.