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Decline Sword Coast Legends Pre-Release Thread

ArchAngel

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http://www.twitch.tv/swordcoastlegends/b/644881880 -- cooldown answer starts at 31:00


So cooldowns confirmed. The reason? Because MP.
I don't have will to argue with their idiotic reasoning on their forums. Even D&D Online had rest spots in dungeons and with mana points was more strategic then their idiotic cooldowns. The guy actually called cooldowns strategic and similar to resting.......
 
Last edited:

pippin

Guest
Neverwinter Nights was made in 2001/2.
That is, almost 15 years ago.
How difficult it is to make a decent MP D&D game?!
 

Trodat

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http://www.twitch.tv/swordcoastlegends/b/644881880 -- cooldown answer starts at 31:00


So cooldowns confirmed. The reason? Because MP.
I don't have will to argue with their idiotic reasoning. Even D&D Online had rest spots in dungeons and with mana points was more strategic then their idiotic cooldowns on their forums. The guy actually called cooldowns strategic and similar to resting.......

Now I'm eagerly waiting how Tudge is going to explain the upcoming dumbed down class system, because I'm sure that will be the next big let down.
 

Kem0sabe

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On Twitter:


The reasoning behind SwordCoast using cooldowns for spells make no sense, even D&D online managed rest points and more strategic spell use

@JP_Cunha Appreciate the input. Seriously. It's something we're still tweaking and iterating on. Hang in there!
 

LESS T_T

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Oct 5, 2012
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Codex 2014
Banshee will save your time: http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/115309-sword-coast-legends-community-q-a-stream.html

Update: The stream is now over. An archived version of it can be found at this link. If you don't have time to watch the recording, I have taken the liberty to summarize the questions and answers asked:

Before moving on to the questions and answers, the stream started with a brief retelling of the career of Dan Tudge (N-Space's CEO), from his beginnings as an aspiring artist to his work at BioWare to his current work at N-Space.

When asked whether the game would have you create a single character or the whole party, Tudge replied that a player would build a single character and then recruit companions, much like in titles such as Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age: Origins.

Attributes in character creation will be handled with a point-buy system rather than dice rolls, a system that has been mostly abandoned since the Infinity Engine days. Tudge claims this helps the developers balance the game because with dice rolls players could create potentially "broken" characters with very high stats.

Tudge was asked how the classes and races that the game will feature at release were chosen, given not all of the base tabletop ones will be available. He replied noting that, to provide quality, the team had to nail down the scope of the game, and decided to touch on the "core classes". The team intends to provide more classes and races post-launch. Tieflings were specifically cited.

On the subject of races: sub-races will be in the title.

On the subject of alignments, Tudge mentions that chosing the alignment at the beginning of the game in a videogame can be weird, because a player could potentially choose an alignment and then take choices throughout the rest of the game that won't fit it. He stresses the important of providing choices in the game, but from the answer it wasn't completely clear whether alignments will be in the game in some capacity.

There will be dialogue trees and character interactions. Companions will react to your choices. The team isn't talking about romances at this stage, but, according to Tudge, the aim is to create memorable characters with whom you can have relationships is important.

N-Space wants to make sure that players can fully customize their character. There will be options for gender, race, class and physical appearance, though they give no detail on the latter.

Based on the current gameplay footage, some members of the communities have expressed worries on the current handling of the characters' hitpoints. According to Tudge, òot of iteration will be needed to get to the "perfect balance", and many of the things shown in the video have already changed or will change. Hitpoints "may or may not be one of those things".

The team has discussed how to handle pause in multi-player internally and considered a number of options, but they still haven't reached the point where they can confidently give an answer, even on whether there will be pausing in multiplayer in the first place.

Tudge spent a long time discussing the threat mechanic for the DM mode. According to him, having played a lot of D&D, the developers realized that the collaborative experience between Dungeon Masters and players is at the heart of it. Good DMs provide challenge to the players to create memorable experiences. In videogames, on the other hand, the relationship is often adversarial. The developers wanted to encourage a collaborative experience that is true to the tabletop experience, and built the Threat mechanic with that aim in mind. Threat is a resource that doesn't continuously generate, but rather is earned by providing a challenge for the players and lost by killing off players. There are also threat limits per room and systems to adjust for smaller party compositions, to further balance the experience.

How is dungeon crawl different from campaign creation? According to Tudge, the DM mode dungeon crawls provide the opportunity to quickly set up an experience tailored to the players' expectations. Campaign creation, on the other hand, is more devoted to the needs of players with long-term expectations. You could potentially move over your tabletop campaign to SCL, according to the devs.

Cooldowns have been implemented in place of resting to make sure that the resource management aspect was maintained without the hassle of dealing with rest in a potentially multiplayer environment. The developers also think that resting as a mechanic doesn't really work in single-player games, as it strains credibility.

The developers want the final game to have a range of voices with authentic accents, and stressed yet again that the VO in the current gameplay videos was all placeholder.

The team hasn't implemented WASD movement so far, but depending on the feedback from the community they might look into it.

Similarly, while a combat log is present for debugging purposes, it's not currently part of the plan for the game. However, should the community clamor for one, the developers would look into the possibility of implementing it.

The iconic gelatinous cubes from Dungeons & Dragons are in.

To end the Q&A, Tudge was asked what his favorite features from the game were. After cheekily claiming they were all features he couldn't talk about, he cited campaign creation (something that the entire team is apparently really excited about) and the game's companions. Tudge cited companions like Jaheira and Minsc from Baldur's Gate and Alistair, Morrigan and Zevran from Dragon Age: Origins as models, claiming that, by the time he was done with the games, he looked at them as friends.
 

ArchAngel

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Mar 16, 2015
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On Twitter:


The reasoning behind SwordCoast using cooldowns for spells make no sense, even D&D online managed rest points and more strategic spell use

@JP_Cunha Appreciate the input. Seriously. It's something we're still tweaking and iterating on. Hang in there!
This twitter post is almost as if someone read my comment :D
 

Eirikur

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
I'm late to the party on this one. Do you know if they'll give us the tools we need to establish persistent worlds? Some of my best RP experiences were on the NWN PWs 'City of Arabel' and 'Escape From the Underdark'.
 
Self-Ejected

Bubbles

I'm forever blowing
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If you pay $239.99 for the Sword Coast Legends Limited Edition Collector's Pre-Order Pack, you gain access to the Design Council, a special forum that allows elite players to shape the future of the game.

Right now, the first vote is being held:

Are you a member of the Sword Coast Legends Design Council? If so, you now have special access to chats and forums that help shape the creation of Sword Coast Legends.

First on the agenda for Design Council members is the difficult decision of Belaphoss' final pose.

V2YneLm.jpg


That's right, members of the Design Council get to vote on the Belaphoss Statue's final pose, which goes into production only after voting is completed.

Design Council members can cast their votes here.

https://swordcoast.com/content/design-council-belaphoss-statue

Should the Codex petition / raise funds for a Design Council key so we can offer our expertise?
 

Alienman

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Ehm.. paying 240 dollars to beta test?

Or is it just stuff like the statue?
 
Self-Ejected

Bubbles

I'm forever blowing
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
7,817
Actually I was half-wrong. The Design Council doesn't include beta access, but the same edition also contains "Headstart Access":

The Limited Edition Collector’s Pre-Order Pack Includes the Following:

• 1 Steam Game Key
• Tome of knowledge (giving players a boost to their attributes and abilities)
• Order of the Burning Cloak Armor and Weapons
• Beholder monster for Dungeon Masters
• Lost Mines dungeon tile set for Dungeon Masters
• Specials Wisps for Dungeon Master cursors
• Exclusive Hero forum badge
• Belaphoss forum Badge
• Headstart Access

• Design Council Access – Help Devs Make Decisions that shape SCL
• Exclusive Dungeon Master forum badge
• Digital soundtrack of Sword Coast Legends – Distributed via Steam once Game is Released
• Cloth Map of the Sword Coast - Shipped to you closer to launch window
• Statue of Belaphoss - Shipped to you closer to launch window
 

Alienman

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Sounds like the EA premium thingy for Battlefield (you get to play the dlcs two weeks before official release).
 

Alchemist

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Messages
1,439
First on the agenda for Design Council members is the difficult decision of Belaphoss' final pose.

V2YneLm.jpg


That's right, members of the Design Council get to vote on the Belaphoss Statue's final pose, which goes into production only after voting is completed.

Design Council members can cast their votes here.

https://swordcoast.com/content/design-council-belaphoss-statue
Wow, they definitely have their priorities straight... :roll:
It must be really rewarding to make these important game-altering decisions.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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Messages
24,924
"So cooldowns confirmed. The reason? Because MP."

Fukkin' stupidity.
 

Mustawd

Guest
First on the agenda for Design Council members is the difficult decision of Belaphoss' final pose.

V2YneLm.jpg


That's right, members of the Design Council get to vote on the Belaphoss Statue's final pose, which goes into production only after voting is completed.

Design Council members can cast their votes here.

https://swordcoast.com/content/design-council-belaphoss-statue
Wow, they definitely have their priorities straight... :roll:
It must be really rewarding to make these important game-altering decisions.


Is that Cheezwhiz he''s covered in?
 

Delterius

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Dec 12, 2012
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Entre a serra e o mar.
On Twitter:


The reasoning behind SwordCoast using cooldowns for spells make no sense, even D&D online managed rest points and more strategic spell use

@JP_Cunha Appreciate the input. Seriously. It's something we're still tweaking and iterating on. Hang in there!
This twitter post is almost as if someone read my comment :D
Yes, but when they say MP they probably mean DM mode, which means they'll go the Neverwinter Nights route of throwing D&D's strategic concern out the window in order to guarantee a consistent game for both adventurers and dungeon master.
 

ArchAngel

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Mar 16, 2015
Messages
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And it could if it dropped the D&D tag.
One can use one of the settings of Dungeons and Dragons without using the rules. :)
No you cannot. There is no Dungeons&Dragons Setting. D&D represents a certain gameplay based on specific rules. If you want to be taken seriously as a D&D rpg they need to use D&D rules and give the specific D&D gameplay.

I played Star Wars under different rulesets, but those games were always called Star Wars, not after rules they used. D&D is not a world or a setting, it is a name for a party based strategic and tactical PnP ruleset.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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Messages
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No you cannot. There is no Dungeons&Dragons Setting.

I said one of the settings of D&D, of which there are many: Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Eberron, etc. If one wants to make a game or any kind of fiction with these settings, Dungeons and Dragons must be labeled somewhere.

D&D represents a certain gameplay based on specific rules.

Tell it to Tower of Doom/Shadow over Mystara, Dark Alliance, Demon Stone, Neverwinter...
 

twincast

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Messages
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Attributes in character creation will be handled with a point-buy system rather than dice rolls, a system that has been mostly abandoned since the Infinity Engine days. Tudge claims this helps the developers balance the game because with dice rolls players could create potentially "broken" characters with very high stats.
No surprise. And thank goodness for that. Dice-rolling at character creation and/or advancement is an abomination only suited for die-hard grognards.

Tudge was asked how the classes and races that the game will feature at release were chosen, given not all of the base tabletop ones will be available. He replied noting that, to provide quality, the team had to nail down the scope of the game, and decided to touch on the "core classes". The team intends to provide more classes and races post-launch. Tieflings were specifically cited.
WotC's needy hardon for tieflings continues to elude me. Not that I have anything against them per se, but I'll be annoyed on principle if they once again shove off their counterpart aasimar to later-maybe-never.

On the subject of alignments, Tudge mentions that chosing the alignment at the beginning of the game in a videogame can be weird, because a player could potentially choose an alignment and then take choices throughout the rest of the game that won't fit it. He stresses the important of providing choices in the game, but from the answer it wasn't completely clear whether alignments will be in the game in some capacity.
It's not like he doesn't have a point, but still, alignments simply belong in D&D - FR more so than most, to boot.

Based on the current gameplay footage, some members of the communities have expressed worries on the current handling of the characters' hitpoints. According to Tudge, òot of iteration will be needed to get to the "perfect balance", and many of the things shown in the video have already changed or will change. Hitpoints "may or may not be one of those things".
For fuck's sake, what is there to "(re)balance"? That Joe Diablo Bro is used to higher damage numbers doesn't mean that there is an objective need for such.

Tudge spent a long time discussing the threat mechanic for the DM mode. According to him, having played a lot of D&D, the developers realized that the collaborative experience between Dungeon Masters and players is at the heart of it. Good DMs provide challenge to the players to create memorable experiences. In videogames, on the other hand, the relationship is often adversarial. The developers wanted to encourage a collaborative experience that is true to the tabletop experience, and built the Threat mechanic with that aim in mind. Threat is a resource that doesn't continuously generate, but rather is earned by providing a challenge for the players and lost by killing off players. There are also threat limits per room and systems to adjust for smaller party compositions, to further balance the experience.
Continues to look and sound like good intentions gone awry.

How is dungeon crawl different from campaign creation? According to Tudge, the DM mode dungeon crawls provide the opportunity to quickly set up an experience tailored to the players' expectations. Campaign creation, on the other hand, is more devoted to the needs of players with long-term expectations. You could potentially move over your tabletop campaign to SCL, according to the devs.
Well, I seriously doubt the last part, but at least hope for the game doesn't seem lost on all fronts yet.

Cooldowns have been implemented in place of resting to make sure that the resource management aspect was maintained without the hassle of dealing with rest in a potentially multiplayer environment. The developers also think that resting as a mechanic doesn't really work in single-player games, as it strains credibility.
Maybe it's just me, but shouldn't players playing a co-operative game mode be expected/required to be capable of, you know, CO-OPERATION?!
And I'm not quite sure what he means by resting straining credibility in SP games. Resting in the middle of a dungeon? There's a load of possible fixes for that, none of them occult in any sense of the word. Or the inherent ridiculousness of being able to memorize and forget a single spell multiple times with each rest? Well, in that case, I've got news for Tudge, as D&D5e - which SCL is supposedly "based on" - is the first D&D edition ever in which the spell-casting rules for the two core spell-caster classes make sense. Really, it's the high point of the edition (and the lack of skill points its low point), and they just ignore it for the sake of the game playing like your average MMO.

The team hasn't implemented WASD movement so far, but depending on the feedback from the community they might look into it.
Well, color me surprised.

Similarly, while a combat log is present for debugging purposes, it's not currently part of the plan for the game. However, should the community clamor for one, the developers would look into the possibility of implementing it.
Idonteven...
 

ArchAngel

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Messages
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Why do you need a combat log for a game that is so fast they implemented an AI that plays itself. It is not like you need to make any decisions based on that log. It is not like you need to make any decisions at all. The gameplay video was just going through the motions.. TellTale games have more gameplay and choice than SCL currently does.
 

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