Decline Sword Coast Legends Pre-Release Thread

[twincast]

That I find to be "settling". The restrictions made sense to me and were an element depth of play. This concept of mainstream PnP design that the player shouldn't be "restricted" is something I used to hear quite often from the "story" rpg crowd who hated rules, hated being restricted and wanted the freedom to do as they pleased whenever they liked has led away from the original core design of PnP games. Honestly, I don't care that people want a variation on the theme, but this obsession to dumb everything down, to make everything "accessible" because it would be offending to tell a player no has gotten tiring. Yes, PnP is about a certain level of artistic expression and feel, but to disregard its roots, to disregard the essence of what "game" play is, well... that is my problem.

Ever-lawful monks and never-lawful barbarians make sense as a generalisation, but even with these I can easily think of perfectly sensible exceptions.

3.5e druids needing to be at least partly neutral I can get behind, but 2e (True) Neutral only went straight against pretty much every druid character in official D&D works ever.

Paladins as presented kind of make sense as LG (as much as L/C and G/E do to begin with - they work for societies (and supernatural beings), not so much for individuals - rational/emotional and altruistic/egotistic would be similar but infinitely better descriptors for how personal decisions actually work), but why can't other alignments have holy warriors devoted to them (or have to wait for such maybe appearing in some supplement someday)?

I can't think of a single other (base) class where any alignment restrictions made any sense at all. As for prestige classes, maybe with some of the overly specific ones.

You can introduce additional (race/culture/alignment/class) restrictions in particular settings all you want, but in the general rules of a generic medieval fantasy RPG system there is no logical place for such arbitrary measures.

And it's not like alignment restrictions affect the gameplay balance at all. As long as people try to adhere to the concepts they decided on (including alignment) - or properly role-play a well-reasoned change (e.g. perhaps after someone slaughtered the character's family), there's no rational problem whatsoever.

 

[twincast]

Ok, I started looking closer at 5th edition alignment.

Apparently, they didn't get rid of alignment (according to the wiki, so don't take this as fact) and still have: lawful good, good, unaligned, evil and chaotic evil. Does anyone know the purpose of this? It completely breaks the synergy of Gygax's system. Are they saying evil can't be lawful? Good can't be chaotic? Seriously, are these guys fucking stupid?

That's 4e's weird half-assed simplification. 5e's got the 9+1 we all know.

 

[Xenich]

That I find to be "settling". The restrictions made sense to me and were an element depth of play. This concept of mainstream PnP design that the player shouldn't be "restricted" is something I used to hear quite often from the "story" rpg crowd who hated rules, hated being restricted and wanted the freedom to do as they pleased whenever they liked has led away from the original core design of PnP games. Honestly, I don't care that people want a variation on the theme, but this obsession to dumb everything down, to make everything "accessible" because it would be offending to tell a player no has gotten tiring. Yes, PnP is about a certain level of artistic expression and feel, but to disregard its roots, to disregard the essence of what "game" play is, well... that is my problem.

Ever-lawful monks and never-lawful barbarians make sense as a generalisation, but even with these I can easily think of perfectly sensible exceptions.

3.5e druids needing to be at least partly neutral I can get behind, but 2e (True) Neutral only went straight against pretty much every druid character in official D&D works ever.

Paladins as presented kind of make sense as LG (as much as L/C and G/E do to begin with - they work for societies (and supernatural beings), not so much for individuals - rational/emotional and altruistic/egotistic would be similar but infinitely better descriptors for how personal decisions actually work), but why can't other alignments have holy warriors devoted to them (or have to wait for such maybe appearing in some supplement someday)?

I can't think of a single other (base) class where any alignment restrictions made any sense at all. As for prestige classes, maybe with some of the overly specific ones.

You can introduce additional (race/culture/alignment/class) restrictions in particular settings all you want, but in the general rules of a generic medieval fantasy RPG system there is no logical place for such arbitrary measures.

And it's not like alignment restrictions affect the gameplay balance at all. As long as people try to adhere to the concepts they decided on (including alignment) - or properly role-play a well-reasoned change (e.g. perhaps after someone slaughtered the character's family), there's no rational problem whatsoever.

I disagree twincast, but I will refrain from discussion. I am kind of tired of this anyway(I have been having these arguments for over 20 years) . I will respect your opinion and only say I have some contentions that I really don't think matter as obviously my position isn't even relevant in the gaming scene anymore. Gygax is dead, TSR is dead, PnP is pretty much in a completely different crowds hands these days.

 

[Xenich]

Ok, I started looking closer at 5th edition alignment.

Apparently, they didn't get rid of alignment (according to the wiki, so don't take this as fact) and still have: lawful good, good, unaligned, evil and chaotic evil. Does anyone know the purpose of this? It completely breaks the synergy of Gygax's system. Are they saying evil can't be lawful? Good can't be chaotic? Seriously, are these guys fucking stupid?

That's 4e's weird half-assed simplification. 5e's got the 9+1 we all know.

Hehe, chalk this up to yet another reason why Wiki is useless.

 

[twincast]

Removing the restrictions just wreaks of "But I really want to play a dwarf magic user!!! DAMN IT!!! WHAAAAAAA!" The restrictions existed because of racial elements that made it very unlikely for that to occur or core lore aspects of the given race. Now that isn't to say that you can't make a Dwarf Wizard, but.. well... good luck with the fails you have in spell casting. Though to be honest, you could disregard the core rules and do what you want though. Apparently that is stupid, because apparently we need to throw out dwarf lore and game design because... little Larping teddy poo wants to play something and doesn't like the rules. I mean... rules get in the way of fun, and fun is to do what you want and alway win!! Yea!!!!! claps hands. /facepalm

Just one last thing: You are aware that mythological dwarves were masterful smiths and masterful wizards (and generally lousy warriors), yes? Tolkien isn't the be-all and end-all of fantasy, and Oerth's elves (thankfully) take at least as much inspiration from mythology's as from Middle-Earth's (plus some unique aspects), so it's not like Gygax and Arneson carbon-copied everything from The Lord of the Rings.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Seari]

This game would actually look interesting if it weren't for the ugly fucking art style and Acid Arrow III.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Gave up on following their news/forums long ago, but this is the first time I've seen Unity mentioned as the engine. Initially they wouldn't even answer questions about that.

 

[Bubbles]

Two more companions:

Soronil Noonshadow

Spoiler

Luskan is a place where reputation means more than honor, and information sells better than ale… and thus, it’s the perfect place for Soronil Noonshadow. A moon elf diviner with a taste for mysteries, Soronil is a storehouse of information, both fact and rumor, and he’s willing to share it with anyone willing to pay his price. As such, he is a valuable source for those who, like Illydia and Larethar, seek ways to make up for past mistakes. While he’s open to sharing information to those willing to pay—or to work—for it, his own past is a bit of a mystery… as is his ability to remain alive in Luskan, given the enemies that someone in his line of work tends to make.

The Luskan Underground



The City of Sails is a city run by the High Captains of the five Ships, the pirate gangs that rule the city, but it also has a thriving criminal underground that specializes in things from smuggling, assassinations, and even hiding those who may have fallen afoul of one of the Ships. Information brokers, shady businessmen, and gangs all operate under the High Captains’ noses, knowing that should the Ships catch on to their activities, it might take more than gold to get them to look the other way.

Principal among the underground factions in Luskan is the organization known as Bregan D’aerthe. Founded by the infamous drow mercenary Jarlaxle Baenre, Bregan D’aerthe has taken hold in the ruins beneath Luskan and infiltrated the Ships themselves. Other criminal groups in Luskan include the Dead Rats, a gang that includes a number of wererats among their members, and the Dragonbloods, a feared organization rumored to be dealing in the slave trade, one of the few criminal enterprises frowned upon in the City of Sails.

Hommet Shaw

Spoiler

It takes a lot for a young wizard to be exiled from Longsaddle, the home of the famously eccentric Harpell wizards, but Hommet Shaw managed to pull it off. He’s a very talented wizard, but his attention to detail leaves something to be desired… to say the least. He’s young, and eager, and desperate to prove himself, but, well, necromancy isn’t the most widely accepted magical specialty, and it’s hard to find a mentor who won’t go all “Dine upon the fearsome hatred of the DEAD!” on you. When he sees a chance to accompany the heroes into battle, he takes it as a chance to prove himself… and make some friends in the bargain.

Humans:Humans of Faerûn are diverse and adaptable, capable of living anywhere and excelling in nearly any environment. Short-lived by the standards of dwarves and elves, humans often come across as fiery and opinionated, obsessed and ambitious. While other races may excel in specific areas of specialization, humans show aptitude for a wide variety of skills and talents. This flexibility has allowed humans to spread across the world, leading the human race to split into multiple ethnicities, each as diverse in culture and beliefs as any two other races in Faerûn.

The Harpells: Among the magic-using peoples of the Sword Coast, the Harpell family enjoys a position of particular renown and notoriety. While the Harpells are generally known to be kind-hearted, those who are closest to them know them to be dangerously eccentric. The Harpells possess great libraries of lore and massive troves of magical knowledge… the latter due largely to the strange and often ill-advised experiments they carry out in the pursuit of knowledge. The Harpells live in the Ivy Mansion in Longsaddle, where they have been known to serve outsiders as advisors or on rare occasions to train young wizards in the magical arts.

There's also this poll discussing whether the game should allow modders to sell their content through an SCL store. I voted for the "n-Space can sell user content, and all proceeds go to n-space" option

 

[Seari]

Could this art style be any more gay. Does this game feature buttsex?

 

[AwesomeButton]

"We're delivering a very classic experience" was said to the background of cooldowns going off It almost looks like a parody except it's not.

Overall, it's fun to follow how he tries to find an excuse for including his buzzwords into every response, regardless of what the question was.

Reinstates my feeling that this game has no vision, only buzzwords to go by.

 

[Trodat]

Could this art style be any more gay. Does this game feature buttsex?

It is really generic. Reminds me of the new HoMM game. Like something c00l you learn in the game designer school "guize this is TEH FUTURE IT SELLS11"

 

[Morality Games]

The elf and the dwarf were okay, the eyeliner on eh lets called him a necromancer pushed it over the edge.

 

[pippin]

Hommet Shaw looks like a new wave band member who somehow ended up at renfair.
Also his potion thingy triggers me. Those flasks will be flying on the air as soon as combat starts.

 

[Volourn]

Some thoughts on last few pages:

1. Icewind Dale is NOT on the Sword Coast you dumb fucks. It's up fukkin' north hence the ICE.

2. Drow don't have a lawful society. Their society is chaotic. Even their 'rules' are mocked amongst them. It's about power. This is also made clear in the Dark Elf Trilogy. Chaos reigns and that's the way their goddess likes it.

3. Alignment is not perfect but it is still awesome.

4. This game is soemthing I really want to like but they really are making it hard with all their bullshitz.

 

[Outlander]

Roxor will review it 9/10 RPG Codex GOTY 2015

 

[vonAchdorf]

The graphics style seems to be pretty standard fare, somewhere halfway between realism and cartoonish (ok leaning more to the realism side), Unity Asset store style. To me it looks like D:OS with a bit less vibrancy. The character art is standard 5e. It's ok, nothing memorable though.

I wonder if they really manage to make the DM thing worthwhile. I can't think of a game which did that successfully so far.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Roxor will review it 9/10 RPG Codex GOTY 2015

idk man it looks better than poe

 

[Xenich]

I wonder if they really manage to make the DM thing worthwhile. I can't think of a game which did that successfully so far.

That is easily answered. Do you see complexity in the player system? If you don't the GM system is likely to be just as limited.

I mean, think about it... Do you honestly believe they will make a weak player system, but somehow put in a deep and insightful DM system?

Laugh with me... LOL.. HA HA HA HA...

We know better.

 

[vonAchdorf]

I wonder if they really manage to make the DM thing worthwhile. I can't think of a game which did that successfully so far.

That is easily answered. Do you see complexity in the player system? If you don't the GM system is likely to be just as limited.

I mean, think about it... Do you honestly believe they will make a weak player system, but somehow put in a deep and insightful DM system?

Laugh with me... LOL.. HA HA HA HA...

We know better.

So you think I should cancel my $349,99 ltd. CE preorder?

Spoiler

The GM stuff they have shown so far is boring - dropping monsters on players and locking doors and placing traps is fun for the first time. I'm still looking forward to their "module" system, they say they want to make it possible to recreate PnP adventures. I hope, there will be more to it than fighting, opening doors and disarming traps.

 

[Doktor Best]

I cant shake the feeling the dude in the interview only pretends to know his shit. Especially when asked about the world hes like "it uuuh has really cool monsters and uuuhhhm really cool like characters and erm... locations and stuff"


But somehow i cant help but feel atleast a little bit of optimism about this game. Maybe they really land a lucky punch and provide a decent campaign (its all up to the writers really with a set-in-stone gameworld like forgotten realms) and maybe the mod tool is actually useful and easy to handle so that it gives people without much knowledge about modding/coding the opportunity to give us some high quality free content.

 

[Tigranes]

Oh, they just replayed their old gameplay footage. Twice.

What matters is the gameplay, and whether it shows anything more than meh.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

But somehow i cant help but feel atleast a little bit of optimism about this game. Maybe they really land a lucky punch and provide a decent campaign (its all up to the writers really with a set-in-stone gameworld like forgotten realms)

Guess it depends what sort of writing you prefer:

I'm Jay Turner, Narrative Director for SCL. I'm also writing the majority of the story, dialogue, etc. for the game, along with help from our leads team and our designers on the project. We're working closely with Wizards to make sure the story is aligned with the Forgotten Realms and as awesome as everything else you see what that legendary imprint.

For my credits, I've worked on Jade Empire, all three Mass Effects, Dragon Age: Origins, Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, Army of Two: The Devil's Cartel, and Dead Space 3.

...
I was BioWare's first Editor when I worked on Jade Empire (I wrote some of the lore scrolls and item descriptions, too) and Mass Effect 1. I became a writer on DA:O and worked on dialogue, characters, plots, etc., which I also did for ME2. I wrote Sonic Chronicles pretty much by myself. I left BioWare around the time ME3 was going into production, which means that I did some high level plot work, but that I wasn't there for Dat Ending... or any of the truly great writing that happened on the rest of that title, unfortunately.

My favorite work has been on Zaeed (ultimate badass) and Kasumi (too much fun to write!) for ME2, and Oghren (axes and fart jokes!) for DA:O. I love creating and writing characters, and I really hope that you guys will be as engaged and entertained by our stable of characters in SCL as I am.

 

[Morality Games]

From a general game development point of view that's not a bad résumé.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Just in case anyone can be bothered: Twitch stream online right now, though the announcement doesn't look interesting:

This week the team will discuss their history with Dungeons & Dragons, do some monstrous show and tell and answer some of the community’s questions live on Twitch.tv!

The "I played DnD since the 70s is getting old".

http://www.twitch.tv/SwordCoastLegends