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Indie Swords and Sorcery - Underworld: Definitive Edition

Morkar Left

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Um... you do know what that smiley is Charles-cgr ?

French cannot into irony...they are more about black and white shot films in cafes with beautiful people staring blankly, speaking outrageosly complex dialogue on the nature of metaphysical existence and acting all serious about it.

Every Marxist hates Phrench philosophy, its in our DNA. Possibly because the only way to stomach it is dilettantism and open philistinism, and commies are the one group in the world for whom that kind of self-indulgence/sentimentality is anathema.

(you're not the last Marxist btw, but I am the last Russian nihilist)

Well, the French revolution was more successfull...
 

Deuce Traveler

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Um... you do know what that smiley is Charles-cgr ?

French cannot into irony...they are more about black and white shot films in cafes with beautiful people staring blankly, speaking outrageosly complex dialogue on the nature of metaphysical existence and acting all serious about it.

Every Marxist hates Phrench philosophy, its in our DNA. Possibly because the only way to stomach it is dilettantism and open philistinism, and commies are the one group in the world for whom that kind of self-indulgence/sentimentality is anathema.

(you're not the last Marxist btw, but I am the last Russian nihilist)

Well, the French revolution was more successfull...

For a short time before the reestablishment of the monarchy. Would the French argue that true democratic government did not come to pass until after World War I?
 

Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
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Parliamentary republic started in 1875 after the Franco-Prussian war (not Crimea, oops) when Napoleon III was captured.

And monarchies after Napoleon are constitutional monarchies, although Charles X tried to regain monarchist powers and caused the second revolution in 1848. So there was a gray area for about 60 years.
 
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Deuce Traveler

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Parliamentary republic started in 1875 after the Franco-Prussian war (not Crimea, oops) when Napoleon III was captured.

And monarchies after Napoleon are constitutional monarchies, although Charles X tried to regain monarchist powers and caused the second revolution in 1848. So there was a gray area for about 60 years.

But what would you consider the government from 1875-1919? Since the military seemed to hold the most power, I was wondering if it could have been considered a military oligarchy, though with some popular voice from the parliament.

And to keep this related to your games, what kind of governments are in place in Underworld? Are they all absolute monarchies from humans, dwarves, elves, etc?
 

Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
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Yes monarchies. The one thing that stands out is in some provinces local governments have a bicephal ruling body. Something about the king mistrusting single rulers and appointing two.

The following is in Sovereign, not Underworld.


throne_002.png
 

Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
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If they don't look trustworthy best thing for me to do is make 'em good and honest just to throw you off :) Or say I will and do the opposite just to throw you off. Or... Or just get some needed sleep!
 

Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
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I wrote an entry with details about the mechanics. Several important things have changed.

http://www.olderbytes.com/combat-on-the-new-engine.html


Swords and sorcery – Underworld evolved quite a bit since it’s Gold version release… Almost three years ago. I scratched everything and built a new engine. Now I’m going to ease back into the habit I never had of making steady updates by showing a quick combat video. And commenting on the changes. The best stuff is at the bottom ;)






First of all, there are portraits. These are visible throughout the game but in combat there are a couple things to take note of.

  • They are layed out in their actual combat positions. There are three rows of two, which represents their actual position in combat. Therefore the first two are most exposed.
  • Characters (and monsters) are grayed out when out of melee range. (It does NOT mean they are inactive, nor does the highlighting indicate which character/monster is up). This allows for many things, including tactical positionning options. These include: join or leave melee, order everyone forward or to retreat, or move to the front. there is also the protect option (given the character carries a shield) which allows him or her to set themselves alongside or in front of a companion and physically “share their armor”. They effectively change position in the roster. Monsters can have similar behavior.
The combat log now appears in real time in the top left corner. This allows for much quicker combat since there is no longer a need for a pause to allow players to follow friendly and enemy actions.

Visual effect for spells.

All options appear in the bottom row and can be clicked or activated with their keyboard shortcuts (those appear on the left when hovered). Several actions are unlocked later with the earning of new levels. Naturally, spell casters are rewarded with new spells.

  • Ambidextria allows Knights and Rogues to use two 1H weapons.
  • Stun allows the rogue to immobilize a foe for some time (how many rounds depends on an accuracy and luck versus the monster’s endurance and luck check).
  • Burst allows the archer to shoot three arrows simultaneously (with damage per shot reduced by 25%).
  • Later, Barrage allows the archer to shoot all visible targets (up to 10) with a 50% damage score.
  • Berserk allows the Knight to hit all enemies in melee with a loss of 50% of his/her own life bar.
  • Bleed allows the Rogue to inflict cumulative damage over time, but you’ll need a high level for this one.
  • Powerhouse allows the Knight to replace 1H weapons with 2H weapons. Meaning potentially two 2H if he/she chooses to not carry a shield.
To make this work better, I redesigned both the monster and item database. Monsters now have the same attributes as characters. Some attributes like endurance, spirit, intelligence and luck are used in different checks, allowing for much more variety of resistances and weaknesses. This info can be collected with a spell called Read Mind that’ll help you figure out how to defeat the tougher enemies in later stages of the game.

Another example is the Rogue no longer systematically leaves stealth mode after an attack. An accuracy and luck versus intelligence and luck check determines whether he/she remains unseen or is spotted by the target. If the target is killed by an assassination, the Rogue will remain unseen no matter what.

Weapons now have a penetration and minimum strength score. I added this mainly to accomodate the Archer. The Archer’s damage now exclusively depends on his/her accuracy and luck (to a lesser extent of course), regardless of strength. But to use a more powerful weapon, the Archer will have to match the weapon’s minimum strength. Penetration is deducted from the target’s armor score before determining final damage. While this helps balance the Archer’s contribution to the group, it works the same for melee weapons (whose damage scores are determined by strength.) But bows tend to have higher penetration scores than swords or daggers.

To further accomodate this system, I changed the way weapons work as well. They no longer add to the character’s damage score but multiply it (+0.20*Base Melee, +5.5*Base Ranged…). The weakest ranged weapon (sling) adds 20% to base ranged damage (the accuracy score). The most powerful melee and ranged weapons exceed 10*. Scores of armor and special items have attribute bonuses and many can be enchanted later in the game.

I’ll explain in my next entry how the entirely new character creation and development system works in this context.

Thanks for reading!
 

Morkar Left

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Great! The systems seem to have some good complexity I like.

For combat only one monster sprite is shown on the screen not the actual number?


Berserk allows the Knight to hit all enemies in melee with a loss of 50% of his/her own life bar.

Sounds a bit harsh loosinf half your health.
 

Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
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Project: Eternity
Great! The systems seem to have some good complexity I like.

For combat only one monster sprite is shown on the screen not the actual number?




Sounds a bit harsh loosinf half your health.

The monsters are listed on the right with thumbnails and health bars so the number is a known value. The one in the middle is actually just there to illustrate.

Well berserking takes a lot out of you but surely your priest and/or paladin will have your back :)

I might change that value after testing though. the idea being that berserk reduces HP.
 

Morkar Left

Guest
That's what I meant about the sprite being only one. Not a big deal but would have been great if you could see the actual numbers right from your sightseeing window. Makes always some impression having a dozen of monsters on the screen staring at you ready to rip you to pieces. But better to get the game finished!
 

Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
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I tried but it looks awful. Too cluttered. And it really becomes problematic when there's a wall just in front.
 

Redlands

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Mar 23, 2008
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Do you have any estimates on when the new engine will be released?

I enjoyed playing the game quite a bit; I'd just like to be able to finish it...
 

Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
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That's what I meant about the sprite being only one. Not a big deal but would have been great if you could see the actual numbers right from your sightseeing window. Makes always some impression having a dozen of monsters on the screen staring at you ready to rip you to pieces. But better to get the game finished!

You mean something like this?

I made it work better by tweaking the positionning. I think I might stick with it. It took a lot of work to adapt the mechanics. Also it plays a bit differently and might actually be more fun.

new_cbt_0815.png


Thanks for the feedback anyway :)
 

Morkar Left

Guest
Yes, that's exactly what I meant! Way better I think.


Just looking at the picture and thinking; are there always three rows of enemies max? Then you could move the player window to the right, basically opposing the enemy window (I'm thinking similar to Amberstar/Ambermoon). Would make the abstraction feel better connected to the "actual" fighting and free some space on the left side, making the whole screen more "even".

Actually maybe even shrinking the icons down to 50/60 % to make more space would be possible? (Now that you can actually see all enemy types in full size on the screen).
 
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Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
Developer
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
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Project: Eternity
Yes, that's exactly what I meant! Way better I think.


Just looking at the picture and thinking; are there always three rows of enemies max? Then you could move the player window to the right, basically opposing the enemy window (I'm thinking similar to Amberstar/Ambermoon). Would make the abstraction feel better connected to the "actual" fighting and free some space on the left side, making the whole screen more "even".

Actually maybe even shrinking the icons down to 50/60 % to make more space would be possible? (Now that you can actually see all enemy types in full size on the screen).

There are 5 rows of two but they no longer scoot down when killed. Having them do that was a big mess of constant movement. That being said 8 rows (5+3) could fit with smaller icons. No time just now but I'll give it a try.
 

Alchemist

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Jun 3, 2013
Messages
1,439
That is a cleaner, more visually coherent layout I think. Though you might want to make a more distinct separation between the party and enemy portraits, maybe just some extra vertical space or a graphical element of some kind. Right now the way it reads, they look like part of the party. Just for kicks you could try putting the enemies anchored at top right (with the party anchored at bottom right) and see how that looks.
 

Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
Developer
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
984
Project: Eternity
That is a cleaner, more visually coherent layout I think. Though you might want to make a more distinct separation between the party and enemy portraits, maybe just some extra vertical space or a graphical element of some kind. Right now the way it reads, they look like part of the party. Just for kicks you could try putting the enemies anchored at top right (with the party anchored at bottom right) and see how that looks.

Anchoring would get in the way of something else (a notification that appears if there are mobs beyond the 10th slot). Maybe a bit more space. thanks!
 

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