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Indie Swords and Sorcery - Underworld: Definitive Edition

Morkar Left

Guest
I think that's defenitely an improvement. Less cluttered and your artwork can shine. Looks great!
 

Durwyn

Prophet
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Messages
1,132
Location
Erewhon
New itteration of UI look great.

Additionaly, I must say that I love monster gfx art and style. I'm a sucker for high fantasy chain bikini style :oops:
 

Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
Developer
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
984
Project: Eternity
New itteration of UI look great.

Additionaly, I must say that I love monster gfx art and style. I'm a sucker for high fantasy chain bikini style :oops:

gorgon_in_swamp.png


This calls for a a quick peak at Sovereign. :)
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
Patron
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37,241
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Seattle, WA USA
MCA
Were there 6 party members in the original version? I *swear* it was only 4? It has been a while since I played though...
 

Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
Developer
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
984
Project: Eternity
The actual update also has text :)



Previous versions of Swords and Sorcery – Underworld had very basic character creation and levelling systems. They were in fact very close to Might and Magic – the Secret of the Inner Sanctum (Book I). Not entirely the same, but close. You had to roll for attributes. New levels earned you fixed and randomized extra points for each attribute (MMI attributes did not evolve with new levels).

Underworld Definitive Edition changes a bit in that respect. Each character starts with a fixed number of points for each attribute (how many depends on class). You have a pool of six points to distribute and with each new level you will have 3 more.

Skills are learned automatically at the corresponding level. In the following video you can see a party being created from scratch and in the second part all characters earning level 9 (4:50). Several characters earn skills at that level.

...

Sovereign will be very similar, but the number of points will differ and you can choose to invest in skill points as well. Those skill points can be used to learn from teachers accross the world.

In my previous entry I mentionned that weapons no longer added damage points to an existing score, but multiplied it. This works because base attributes are capped at 20. So multiplying that by 5, 10 or even 20 gives adequate results. Of course a x10 or x20 weapon will be rare and its requirements will make it unuseable by a low-level character. Weapons also have a minimum strength requirement.

The attributes work as follows:

Strength determines damage dealt in melee. It will be multiplied by the weapon’s coefficient to determine the melee score. If the character has two weapons (ambidextria) the first weapon’s coefficient is applied to base strength, then the same with the second weapon. The three values (base strength + weapon 1 bonus + weapon 2 bonus) determines the melee score.
Endurance determines how many hit points the character will earn at each level. During character creation HP=endurance. When levelling however Luck will also come into play (+random(luck)-4). Luck can turn out a negative score that will reduce HP earned but in case of a negative result it is changed to 1.
Accuracy determines the chance to hit with both melee and ranged attacks. With luck it is checked against the monster’s accuracy and luck. It also determines damage dealt with ranged attacks. Strength still plays a part in that in the sense that the ranged weapon has a minimum strength requirement that is correlated with the weapon’s efficiency (most of the time). Luck intervenes here as well, adding damage exactly the same way it adds HPs earned when levelling.
Speed determines combat order.
Spirit determines proficiency in Priest spells. It determines how many HP a healing spell recovers and how much damage an offensive spell inflicts. The same luck check is applied here as well.
Intelligence is to Sorcerers what Spirit is to Priests. Luck intervenes in the same way. A monster’s intelligence (and luck) will also determine whether they spot a Rogue after a stealth attack.
Luck is very important for beginning characters because random(luck)-4 can give negative results and starting attributes like strength have but a few points. It is also important because it plays a part in just about all checks. Accross the board, the number of times Luck will give an extra edge or penalty like extra damage, HP and SP during levelling, or causes a miss or hit really adds up. As the character progresses however the ratio luck to primary statistic lessens.
My next update will be about items, inventory and shops. Thanks for reading!
 

Redlands

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
983
Previous versions of Swords and Sorcery – Underworld had very basic character creation and levelling systems. They were in fact very close to Might and Magic – the Secret of the Inner Sanctum (Book I). Not entirely the same, but close. You had to roll for attributes. New levels earned you fixed and randomized extra points for each attribute (MMI attributes did not evolve with new levels).

Underworld Definitive Edition changes a bit in that respect. Each character starts with a fixed number of points for each attribute (how many depends on class). You have a pool of six points to distribute and with each new level you will have 3 more.

My precious rolling, noooooooooo! :argh:

(More seriously, I did like the very early MM feel of the game when I played it, and I was going to ask if you could include an option, but if you're making a whole bunch of changes to everything else it'd kind of be stupid as I've no idea how it would work with regards to everything else.)
 

Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
Developer
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
984
Project: Eternity
My precious rolling, noooooooooo! :argh:

(More seriously, I did like the very early MM feel of the game when I played it, and I was going to ask if you could include an option, but if you're making a whole bunch of changes to everything else it'd kind of be stupid as I've no idea how it would work with regards to everything else.)

Sorry, but for one thing starting values are quite low with the new system. So if you rolled 15s to 20s you'd be several times more powerful to start with. I like the rolling system too (although not to the point of wanting to stick to it at all costs) but in the end it gets broken with the save anywhere feature. People reload if levelling isn't satisfactory. As for rolling indefinitely when creating characters I rarely see it qualified as fun :p
 

Courtier

Prophet
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
441
That same problem was actually circumvented in Elminage. How it works in those games is that while you roll for stats and get random stats on levelup, they always tend towards an average (depending on the character's level, race and class). So if your warrior got several levelups in a row with say, +20HP and increases in most of his stats, the next few will almost certainly have him gain only a couple hitpoints and less stats. Likewise if he started out with superb stats, his gains would be much lower. If you reload enough or are lucky you can still be higher than average, but scumming is tedious and almost useless, at the most handy for getting you some extra hitpoints on the first few levels before everything evens out again. The good thing about that system is that your character never has exactly X points at a certain level, since there is still some chance involved.
 

Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
Developer
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
984
Project: Eternity
That same problem was actually circumvented in Elminage. How it works in those games is that while you roll for stats and get random stats on levelup, they always tend towards an average (depending on the character's level, race and class). So if your warrior got several levelups in a row with say, +20HP and increases in most of his stats, the next few will almost certainly have him gain only a couple hitpoints and less stats. Likewise if he started out with superb stats, his gains would be much lower. If you reload enough or are lucky you can still be higher than average, but scumming is tedious and almost useless, at the most handy for getting you some extra hitpoints on the first few levels before everything evens out again. The good thing about that system is that your character never has exactly X points at a certain level, since there is still some chance involved.

That would make the game somewhat easier to balance but it's just one step away from fixed levelling values. That takes away both choice and the possibility to have "the best possible character". With a point system the player can sort of multi-class (giving strength and accuracy to a Priest or Sorcerer for instance). Sort of.
 

Courtier

Prophet
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
441
True, and stats are actually irrelevant in that series in particular because they have low caps (18-20) and you reach them relatively quickly no matter what your race/class (especially considering there is effectively no level cap).

I've also got a couple questions about the rebuild+sequel if you don't mind:
-Are you adding features, such as more UI options? (e.g. size of elements, display portraits/paperdolls/just names, detailed or simple combat log...)
-Will players be able to choose a font?
-Speaking of, is adding custom portraits, SFX and music (throwing new stuff in the game folder) going to be possible?

Anyhow you've got another day 1 purchase for both right here, keep up the good work :salute:
 

Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
Developer
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
984
Project: Eternity
True, and stats are actually irrelevant in that series in particular because they have low caps (18-20) and you reach them relatively quickly no matter what your race/class (especially considering there is effectively no level cap).

I've also got a couple questions about the rebuild+sequel if you don't mind:
-Are you adding features, such as more UI options? (e.g. size of elements, display portraits/paperdolls/just names, detailed or simple combat log...)
-Will players be able to choose a font?
-Speaking of, is adding custom portraits, SFX and music (throwing new stuff in the game folder) going to be possible?

Anyhow you've got another day 1 purchase for both right here, keep up the good work :salute:

Ow, the answer is no to all three! Actually Game Maker Studio games store files in either localappdata or appdata so actually replacing files there might be possible but they'd have to have the same file extension and name. I haven't tested though. Not sure if this applies to everything.
 

udm

Arcane
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Aug 14, 2008
Messages
2,752
Make the Codex Great Again!
My only nitpick with the interface is the text box on the left that could obstruct monsters, but that's just me 'sperging. Looks great anyway! Have you submitted this to GOG's "curators"?
 

Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
Developer
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
984
Project: Eternity
My only nitpick with the interface is the text box on the left that could obstruct monsters, but that's just me 'sperging. Looks great anyway! Have you submitted this to GOG's "curators"?

Not yet for Gog. It's in the list of things to do early next week.

Another option for the text is to make the box smaller and add a scrollbar. But it forces clicks so I'd rather not. As is wanting to know what happened is the last round or two doesn't require fiddling and you can still see through the box... Somewhat.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,158
Looks great but i will wait for the Underworld definitive edition 's director's cut , no point playing an obsolete version when the new one will obviously outshine it in every possibly way :)
 

Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
Developer
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
984
Project: Eternity
Looks great but i will wait for the Underworld definitive edition 's director's cut , no point playing an obsolete version when the new one will obviously outshine it in every possibly way :)

Thanks, nauseous now.

I will finally be DONE with this one, DC be damned. ;)
 

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