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"That one MMORPG" theory

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
While I've played WoW the most, something I regret now, I'd say Guild Wars and Everquest were better. Guild Wars was a better game than WoW, while Everquest was a better RPG. Shame GW2 is so shit. I couldn't handle EQ's grind.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
8,819
Location
Italy
anarchy online
twinking a character was just too much fun. unfortunately both interface and mechanics grew old fast, its ui and grind are unbearable today but i still remember it fondly. also i had some serioud rp and pvp fun overthere.

You should try it again. I don't know what was the last version you played but with the global market thing and some other changes AO is still one of the best mmorpgs out there. The UI takes a lot of fucking with to get to work well, but it isn't nearly as bad as it was. Also the grind isn't that bad with the shadowlands content. Not until you get to lvl 200 and soloing becomes a grind, but grouping for those sl fast run dungeons is pretty fast but still annoying if you prefer solo content.
fixer level 206.
no way i'm going to PAY MONTHLY for it again.
 

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
2,088
anarchy online
twinking a character was just too much fun. unfortunately both interface and mechanics grew old fast, its ui and grind are unbearable today but i still remember it fondly. also i had some serioud rp and pvp fun overthere.

You should try it again. I don't know what was the last version you played but with the global market thing and some other changes AO is still one of the best mmorpgs out there. The UI takes a lot of fucking with to get to work well, but it isn't nearly as bad as it was. Also the grind isn't that bad with the shadowlands content. Not until you get to lvl 200 and soloing becomes a grind, but grouping for those sl fast run dungeons is pretty fast but still annoying if you prefer solo content.
fixer level 206.
no way i'm going to PAY MONTHLY for it again.

Why not? Would you rather play a game with 1/10th the depth and complexity and content with 100x the shit RMT? The old subscription games are still the best and the only ones that don't give you some homogenized kid-WoW experience for stupids and those of no taste and questionable civility.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
2-1.jpg

"Awesome Ziemniak"

"use english for the love of god"

Classic Tibia right there :salute:
The worst camera perspective ever existed. When I see a game like this, my brain is shouting "why the fuck is the screen rotated 90 degrees? "
You're being the worst pole right now :(
 

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
It should have been WoW, but I honestly think playing it on release day is one of my biggest regrets in life.

Gonna need to go with Warhammer Online. While it was incomplete and an absolute disaster at level 50 from the lag, horrible population imbalance, and the fact that the devs clearly favored certain classes over others, it's the game I met a group of guys I still play online with to this day. Most of my RL friends just play Battlefield and Madden, so logging in and knowing I have buddies, all of whom are pretty like-minded, moderately successful shitlords, to shoot the shit with at any given time made the disgusting timesink worthwhile.
 

Krivol

Magister
Joined
Apr 21, 2012
Messages
1,951
Location
Potatoland aka Prussia
I've spent few hours (about 20-30) in Silkroad, when I was young and stupid. Then I realised how stupid grindfest that was. Never tried any other MMO, I'm too scared that "bring me 100 wolf pelts" quest is everywhere. My wife played Silkroad for bit longer, I was even configuring bots for her IIRC.
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
7,530
Location
Kelethin
EQ, still play it. Struggling to enjoy it though these days, there are only so many thousands of hours you can spend on something like that before you exhaust everything. Amazing that I've spent so many hours in it though, over 18 years, and I am still playing it. I have spent quite a lot of hours in lots of other MMOs too but they are all minor distractions compared to EQ which is an enormous long term project. The entire genre is very sad though, it had the potential to be mind blowing and instead it got turned into a shitty Kiddie Quest genre about mashing buttons, watching lighting explosions, and vacuuming up all the lootz. It could be so much more.
 

Hydlide

Barely Literate
Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
4
I don't have one particular fondness but rather many. My first online RPG was a MUD back in the early 90s, though I don't remember the name. I played a few other MUDs and had some interesting experiences in those, connecting and roleplaying with people. I played a game called Active Worlds that was a world builder, basically the prelude to Second Life and had a blast in that.

I have memories of breaking into houses and getting ganked in UO, absolutely hating the UI for Everquest to the point I couldn't get into it at all. I played Ragnarok Online from beta and have some silly memories interacting with Korean players.

FFXI and WoW were probably my big ones though. In FFXI you felt like a new adventurer who started with nothing but the shirt on your back, as you ventured into the wilderness alone killing stuff and eventually finding that you had to group with people to do anything. Anyone who played FFXI (or even its soul predecessor EQ) knows how long you'd be in those groups. Fighting for hours upon hours with each pull taking care not to pull too many lest you die and have to shout for help from a high level healer. This is when I saw my first Paladin and figured out what tanking was - and my main role in these games became clear. I distinctly remember the long journey from one of the starter towns to the big main hub, and the quest to obtain my first chocobo mount.

WoW was a bit different as I had already played a dozen MMORPGs, but the intrigue of the world was much different. It was so massive and dangerous. You could solo unlike FFXI, save for some of the harder quests, and people were very helpful. I played every class in that game and was bored by most of them, though once I found the druid and heard you could perform every well, I fell in love. While doing the quest for, aquatic form, I think it was, a player told me I had to go to the other continent so he took me on a trek from Darnassus to Ironforge, avoiding high level mobs and Horde players as we ventured on. I quit for a long time, but came back around the WotLK expansion and met a few friends online where we'd do dungeons and raid for hours, talking in Vent. Nothing will really bring that magic back.

The only other times I felt that "magic" were when ArcheAge first came out and everyone was new to the game. Same with Black Desert Online. Recently, Path of Fire for Guild Wars 2 gave me those feelings again. I've always loved the game but none of my friends play it so it's never that fun alone.

So I guess I have "that one MMORPG" feeling for a lot of different games, and I hope to get that again for future games!
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
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Messages
7,530
Location
Kelethin
absolutely hating the UI for Everquest to the point I couldn't get into it at all
Why hate the EQ UI? It was just like the SSI games and similar.

Eye of the Beholder:
3929-eye-of-the-beholder-dos-screenshot-against-creepy-creatures.gif



EverQuest
everquest.jpg


Then a year or so later the UI was changed to be minimalist.

WoW was a bit different as I had already played a dozen MMORPGs, but the intrigue of the world was much different. It was so massive and dangerous.
This is sad to read because WoW was a copy of EQ but without all the massiveness and danger.
 
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
795
I think to some amount we're a product of our time. Our first MMO may or may not be "the one", but "the one" is probably in that timeframe. If it's delayed, maybe it was the upset stomach or a broken interface patch made them walk away prematurely. However convincing the "first kiss" explanation is, I don't think it explains everything. Some people tried Everquest at its earliest moments and didn't enjoy it. But WoW came out years later and they enjoyed it. Relying on the "first kiss" explanation is a stretch. Personality or preferences are the missing element.

My first MMORPG was Everquest. I've played it the most. My second MMORPG was UO. In many ways, I liked UO more. Looking back on all of it, I realize one of the reasons I picked up Everquest initially was because I was captivated by the idea of being in a fantasy world with other players. And when I tried it and saw how hard it was, my affection increased. How much of that is the "first kiss" phenomena and how much is just a love for risk? I did quit now and then. I played on PvP servers almost exclusively. I played nearly on launch day, I think March 21. I started on the Rallos Zek PvP server. Ask yourself, why would I play on the PvP server? Why would I keep going back to PvP in MMO's? I loved FPS deathmatch games before Everquest. I liked risk and competition. That's half of what I seeked in MMORPGs, not just lore or quests or character development or loot.

I haven't satisfactorily answered this question yet. I don't believe individuality explains all of it. It's too common to find old people who're bound to old ideals or old values to be just a fluke. We bind to things early in life and change very slowly later on. This means our cherished memories and attachments are usually rooted in the distant past. We're usually distrustful or unfriendly to new things.

Can we change? Yes. But it's hard and slow and some things don't ever change.

EDIT: Frankly, I think the first games I played defined me most. They were mostly military simulation and open world, or explorations games. Jetfighter II, M1 Tank Platoon, Wolfpack, Myst, Privateer, Quarantine--to name a few. These were games I bought on my own. I can't remember how early I played Daggerfall, but it was in the 90's. There was a local costco and they carried a lot of old games for cheap. I also ventured into strategy, like Lords of the Realm II or Conquest of the New World and Master of Orion. I thought MOO was better than MOO2, but I lost MOO and eventually fell in love with MOO2. In 1998 I remember daydreaming about MOO2 while working at a cannery. In the latter time before Everquest, I got deeply into the Action Quake 2 mod. I still remember--with pleasure--the numerous headshots I made. I liked Tribes too. Back then these games were freshly minted. The base building in that game was insanely fun. And just like Quake 2 there was unconventional movement you had to learn naturally. IN Quake 2 it was a bunny hopping trick. In Tribes it was "skiing" to move faster.
 
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anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
7,530
Location
Kelethin
No but it doesn't make it unusual either. And with EQ the whole UI changed within a year.
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
7,530
Location
Kelethin
Currently playing Rift which is probably my second favorite MMO. I put a lot of hours in to lots of different MMOs. WoW is kind of my enemy, I blame it for ruining the entire genre, yet I think it did so many great things too. I also had a lot of fun playing it, briefly. Playing on a PVP server as a Druid is some of the best gaming I've ever had. Creeping through the bushes in stealth mode as a lion... watching a player questing and waiting for them to be alone, and then I pounce! And then they turn around and start kicking my ass so I quickly switched into Bear form to tank better. I start to win and they start to run away, so I switch to Moonkin and blast them as I chase them. Also the Battlegrounds were really fun for me. I always loved CTF in Quake and Unreal Tournament, but guns are kinda boring. So getting that same gameplay but with well designed classes was a joy.

I could have played that game for years but I only spent a month in the game because I didn't like how dungeons worked and that was an important part of MMOs to me.

Vanguard was my biggest love, almost as much as EQ. But Rift is very similar in a lot of ways. The main thing I like is the mood and the locations. Gloamwood has that perfect shpooky haunted forest vibe, filled with spectres and werewolves and bats and stuff. And also the big Dracula looking tower in the main village. I just love the mood and the graphics. I haven't played it for years but I kept thinking about that area so I have been playing the past few weeks again just to revisit these cool places. But I also like a lot of other things about it. Switching roles on the go is the greatest thing ever.
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
12,877
Location
Eastern block
I have played a good 1000 or so hours of Guild Wars back then, because I loved the skill system (and the community was pretty good, by MMO standards). The amount of viable builds, synergies between spells etc. was mind-blowing imo; so much to experiment with. The world was very nice, too. People always told me that wasn't an MMORPG though, whatever. A fucking shame they threw everything good about it out the window with Guild Wars 2. Haven't really touched another MMORPG since.
Guild Wars 1. Nothing as good ever since, and likely nothing as good ever again.


The deckbuilding skill system was awesome (and multiclassing). Also the game has had some of the best PvP formats which I fondly remember (AB, TA, RA). Music was fantastic.





memories :( :negative:
 
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anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
7,530
Location
Kelethin
GW2 was awesome in beta. I hope someone out there remembers this and rubs it in their face. Beta1 was brutal, you couldn't solo a single mob, you had to attack for a bit, get ripped a new asshole, dive backwards, run away, and run in circles screaming and crying and trying to shoot anything you could at the mob to kill it. Sometimes you just died. But once you got decent gear and learned the game you could just about solo stuff, and if you had a friend it was a lot easier. With 2 friends it was easy.

But then beta2 and they removed all the difficulty, suddenly mobs were a lot easier to kill. When I logged in for beta3, it was an entirely different experience. I could solo 3 mobs at once. For some crazy reason I had the game pre-ordered (I have never done that before or since), I think because I had IRL friends who were determined to play it together, but after Beta3 I cancelled and got my money back. My friends played it without me but quit after 3 weeks. Fuck those guys though.

When it went free to play a year or two ago, I checked it out again. Apparently the determined retardification of it still wasn't enough and they had done it some more. I attacked about 5 or 6 mobs and stood still and blasted shit to death. Way to ruin your one and only unique feature.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
I also didn't like the new combat system, the butchering of classes (Necro, Mesmer), the way the skillbar is tied to your weapon, the blandness of the skills in general, the homogenization of classes due to the "action combat", the lack of dual-classing, the PvP (oh god, it was terrible) and the lack of healers (which is what I mostly play in MMOs, but that's my problem). They ruined everything unique about GW1 to be more like every other theme park MMO out there, while only offering a very dumbed down and stupid version of GW1's combat.
 
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luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
12,877
Location
Eastern block
They ruined everything unique about GW1 to be more like every other theme park MMO out there

That happens too often in this industry. Single player AND online games. I'll never condone why developers abandon original features, or features which worked well.
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
7,952
Different how? I heard AC was in vein with other MMOs of its time.

From what I've heard from people talking about it aaaaaages the combat mechanics were broken, especially when it came to spells. That became a boon as the spells could still be cast, just not targeted or something. What it effective did was turn the game spell caster wise into a FPS that a ton of people got a huge kick out of.
 
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Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,152
Guild Wars 1 is absolutely one of the best games ever. Not sure if it really qualifies as an MMO though.

... horriterribad abortion of abomination named guild wars 2.
Shame GW2 is so shit.

TIL of an interesting piece of data. Guild Wars 2 sold only 3.5 million copies. Guild Wars 1 sold 6.5...

An excellent example of why Microtransactions are a tool of the devil: They allow games like GW2 to live indefinitely in a vegetative state.
 
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Jadeite

Educated
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Messages
81
No, not at all! What you describe is common, but I have always appreciated good games, and not appreciated bad ones. My first MMORPG was Everquest, but I recognize its flaws compared to earlier games (the world was too big compared to Meridian 59 and Ultima Online, probably in an attempt to outsell them). And it had little of the freedom of UO, but it was also a visionary MMORPG in the way that it fostered groups and camaraderie. But they all had quests after WoW, and that spoke to their superficiality (and the superficiality of the players that left older MMORPGs for the newer ones), and I maintain that these are bad games, and that is not moody or emotional. They were designed for another audience, and that audience had been overlapping with me for decades. The difference is, that audience did not appreciate the old games, and were only there for the sights and sounds. When something new came, they left. With 4000 games arising in 2016 (according to Mobygames) I see that they are still at it. Games have been made specifically for that crowd after WoW, and my love for older MMORPGs is not nostalgic at all. The flaws in these games are blatant, and it is not only multiplayer games. But it is hardly worthy of debate. It is a black and white issue, even for me. When video games began to feature voice acting, what little interest I had in the games of that time began to fade, and some place that era as far back as 1995. So it is plain that MMORPGs were in a precarious place. Through '99 was a first generation, and there was a second generation through '04, and that was that. All MMORPGs before then were worth playing, and though not "one MMORPG" my fondest memories were of games such as Final Fantasy XI, Everquest, Lineage II, Shadowbane, Everquest II, Diablo II, Ragnarok Online, and World of Warcraft. Laters ones that I have tried but will withhold comment on are TERA, Warhammer Online, Rift, Neverwinter (I think. It was on a friends computer), and have seen a brief but enlightening glimpse of Guild Wars 2.
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
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Location
Kelethin
Wish I could bro fist you 10 times. I would skip GW2 by the way, good game on paper, bad game in reality. Check out Pantheon if you haven't already, that's the only hope for a non-theme-park-quest-grinding-dumb-mmo. Don't know if it will be good yet but we'll see over the next year or so.
 

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