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KickStarter The Banner Saga 2

Archibald

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Aug 26, 2010
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You got to play as a Varl in first BS1 too.
 

Sizzle

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It's in GOG's upcoming games section, so I guess they decided on having a DRM free version after all.
 

oscar

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NZ
Completed it:

- Playing as the Ravens was p. cool instead of the more goody two shoes caravan (though you still have some dickish options even there)
- C&C seemed more weighty this time around, almost tempted to do a replay to see if the respective endings would've been much difference (I totally messed up the final fight largely because I wasn't in the mood for such a gimmicky battle)
- Ran into some pretty damn tough fights and even lost a couple near the end due to events/my decisions depriving me of a lot of my best characters (I quite like this actually as it stops you from putting all your valour points into your 'dream team' and diversifying with guys you usually wouldn't bother using)
- Music and art direction are still excellent
- Story is getting a lot more interesting and writing seems above average
- Combat wise I think they're somewhat addressing the leaving wounded enemies alive thing with these fixed damage abilities that mean they can still be pests even with low strength

Overall it felt like a refinement of the first game though if you disliked the first one it probably ain't gonna win you over, looking forwards to round three. Again the game is 9 hours a playthrough so the modest prices feel fair for a game with such high production values.


Was slaying Eyeless just an event or would it have triggered a new battle? I wanted to kill her but my party was in bad shape so I wasn't sure. Does killing or not killing play a role in how Bolverk turns out?
 

Ivan

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the saga continues
CFB56E761697FF08338DBB99D8D940BB1908CBAD
 

Serus

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Ok, so it is the same shit once again. I might pirate it or wait for at least -75% in promotion in a year or so*. I liked the art in the first part, i even liked the battle system but if they didn't do anything substantial to imrpove the gameplay outside battles then f**k them.
:keepmymoney:

*Fake edit: probably wont bother to try it all. Not even pirate it wthen i think about it.
 

Brutan

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Completed it:



Was slaying Eyeless just an event or would it have triggered a new battle? I wanted to kill her but my party was in bad shape so I wasn't sure. Does killing or not killing play a role in how Bolverk turns out?

I don't think it makes a difference. I killed th eyeless and yet Bolverk tuned/changed.

I too enjoyed playing with the Ravens, it felt a lot more realistic. When the world ends not everybody is going to be "let's help everybody". Though choices will need to be made.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga/posts/1561604

Banner Saga 2 on GoG and PAX East Recap

dca319451bdd9c3b212caf31bc17c1cb_original.jpg

Proud to share that we now have a DRM-Free version of Banner Saga 2 available via GoG.

If you are a backer at $50 and up, and you’d like a GoG key for Banner Saga 2 - then please send us a KS message and we’ll get you your key.

Apologies that we couldn’t share this information sooner, but there have been several behind the scenes things going on that have prevented us from making any announcements or sharing information ahead of this time.

During the last week we also had PAX East where we talked about the future of Banner Saga and got to reveal an awesome new trailer from cartoonist Kris Straub. GameSpot did a nice recap of the panel below.

GameSpot Panel Link = http://www.gamespot.com/articles/the-banner-saga-3-discussed-dev-says-universe-is-v/1100-6439132/

There was lots of butthurt in the Kickstarter comments about this: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga/comments
 

Infinitum

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Apr 30, 2016
Messages
700
Finished it. Enjoyable overall; they did manage to fix most of the encounter variety and difficulty issues from the first game. Leaving low-strength enemies alive is in general less appealing what with almost everything having either high armour break or abilities that bypasses it altogether, and you do have to apply abilities effectively in addition to the crowd control of the first game. Did some reloading, and actually had to lower the difficulty from hard in order to complete one of Bolverk's optional fights. The caravan system still feels forced, especially since with attrition rates being what they are every single clansman in it must've been killed and replaced several times over by the time you reach the capital. World building is still the games strongest point besides the art, writing did pick up somewhat but the story pacing is still all over the place. Biggest disappointment was the ingame cutscenes,which imo speaks volumes to the quality (and known weaknesses since BS 1) of the rest of the game.

tl;dr solid game, will replay 2 times (as Rook and in preparation for the third installment).
 

Shadenuat

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Dec 9, 2011
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Russia
Alette's s boring and goody caravan is boring
That Anomen/Karth/Kasavir romance :lol:
Armor system & kill stealing for level ups became tiresome for me
Hate some worthless classes (like an "asassin" that has to spend ~3 turns to make use of his ability, while Bolverk left-clicks through waves of trashmobs), and hate little invisible lizards
Fights aren't really that interesting when it's just more of the same
Story is about nothing because trilogy

Bolverk & Folka caravan is fun
Game is very pretty
YOU CAN GET A BEAR AND SUMMON BEAR
bears are great.

I think it's a good idea to skip this one, buy part III, watch recap instead, unless you just like first one too much.
 

Wulfstand

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Jul 13, 2009
Messages
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I did a full playthrough of the previous Banner Saga in order to refresh my memory and have a save to import. Having finished the first game in the series just before starting the 2nd one made me get totally immersed in the game thanks to the gorgeous artstyle and music.

The games are great, despite their 'on rails' linear story progression with the occasional C&C detours and relatively simplistic combat mechanics. Its story might suffer a bit too much from the medium being very influenced by A song of Ice and Fire, but none of these really bother me much; a gripping (at times) story and a fun, albeit simple combat system are like extra flavors thrown on top.

By the way, is it me, or do you get far more renown this time around, especially with the use of Trainings? Plus the fact that I can also level up my units during challenges is pretty OP, I think, but then again the game really isn't that much about the combat, so I'll just see it as just another way of easing the player's life.

Is the 3rd game due to release next year?


Edit: finished it, loved it. An improvement over the first game in almost every department. It's pretty crazy how much a fantastic artstyle and a gorgeous soundtrack can pull this series. I was more gripped reading those pieces of narration while staring at the non-movable character portraits, than I was playing most triple A rpgs released these past few years, sans a few exceptions.
 
Last edited:

rado907

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Apr 23, 2015
Messages
249
Replayed BS1 and then played this one over the last few days. Some impressions:
- BS1 had gorgeous 2D graphics, great atmosphere, and decent (but not great) TBS fighting with RPG-lite charsheets. The plot was not developed well and did not make much sense, and that was fine. The game was good.
- So all I wanted from BS2 was more of the same - and that's what Stoic have delivered. Most aspects of the game have been slightly improved.
- The one thing I hated about BS2 was the ending. I knew I'd get a cliffhanger, so that didn't bother me. But I really disliked the final fight. It was both cheap and dull. Severely detracted from the experience as far as I'm concerned.

So I'd say that BS2 is slightly better than BS1 up until the final fight. But since the final fight is so lame, I'd say the two games are about equally good.

Bottom line: BS2 (and BS1) recommended; looking forward to the next (and hopefully last) installment.

P.S. The combat system in this game is strange. Do the following three principles summarize optimal strategy, or am I missing something?
- Prioritize armor break when leveling characters and distributing items.
- Try to either avoid or overwhelm the most powerful enemy units ASAP.
- Try to leave as many enemies as possible alive at 1-2 hp points during combat.
 

Sloul

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Mar 26, 2016
Messages
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That you observe the choices you made during BS1 comes to effect in BS2?
You also retain fame, supplies, items, heroes and levels that you gathered during BS1.

Although, it seems that with a default save you get all heroes
You get egil instead of ekkil
Yrsa comes back later in the game
 

skyst

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Jul 26, 2010
Messages
294
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Philadelphia, PA
That you observe the choices you made during BS1 comes to effect in BS2?
You also retain fame, supplies, items, heroes and levels that you gathered during BS1.

Although, it seems that with a default save you get all heroes
You get egil instead of ekkil
Yrsa comes back later in the game

It kind of pisses me off that the default save...

...gets you Egil, considering how likely he is to be killed in the first game!
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://steamcommunity.com/app/281640/discussions/3/357287935542490493/

Survival Mode Info
Hello All!

We’re excited to see what you think about Banner Saga 2 - Survival Mode!

Survival Mode is a fun addition to the game that we’ve been working on. It’s still in development but we are at the point where we would like to get you involved with some playtesting and feedback.

What is Survival Mode?
It’s all about staying alive through as many battles as possible! Assemble a team from almost all of the Banner Saga Heroes and equip them with items earned through your victories. Heroes who fall in battle are permanently dead. Renown is used to recruit new heroes and to promote the heroes who survive. A 30-second timer keeps the action moving, leaderboards will track how you rank against other players, and a whole set of Survival Mode achievements has been added. Try a game on Hard Mode for an even more difficult challenge and see if you have the skills to survive!

How do I access Survival Mode?
  • Right click Banner Saga 2 in your Steam Library
  • Click on Properties
  • Navigate to the “BETAS” tab
  • Use the dropdown menu to select “survival” branch
  • Download the Update
  • Launch Banner Saga 2
  • Click on the “Survival Mode” banner

We’d love to hear your feedback, thoughts and opinions. We’ve created this “Survival Mode” subform for all of your questions and discussion.

Skol!
 

sqeecoo

Arcane
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
2,615
I really liked the fist game for the excellent atmosphere, art, and music and the reasonably challenging combat. The second game was enjoyable, but I liked it less overall.

The atmosphere was more confusing than anything - oh look, a forest! Horsepeople! The ground is breaking apart! Well suddenly my squishy support mages have godlike abilities so that's ok, the day is saved. Bah. I liked the "refugees running away from enemy army" theme from the first game much more than this "world is breaking" thing that was communicated much more poorly and felt more random in the consequences, in my opinion. Chasms have opened and people have fallen in. Who the fuck cares? It's not like I could do something about it, unlike the refugees in fighting retreat in BS1 which felt less "epic" but much more relatable.
People in your caravan were meaningless in gameplay terms in both games, but I felt bad when they starved/died while I was fighting dredge to protect them. I didn't feel bad when they were eaten by some fucking plant in a magic cave where some fucking mages that I met two seconds ago led me with minimal explanation.

Character introduction was also much more gradual and better in the first one, as was the very real chance that your guys could die on you, based on your choices. Here there's a fuckton of characters but hardly a memorable interaction (other than with the new group, the Ravens). I think the game suffered from keeping the all characters from the first one at the start, instead of reintroducing them gradually (or just killing them).

Art was equally good.

Music was slightly less good.

Combat was more of the same, but significantly easier overall on hard.

All in all, much less gripping for me than the first one, but decent enough. I'll play the third game, with low expectations.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://steamcommunity.com/app/281640/discussions/0/358415738184089149/

Survival Mode!

A new gameplay mode that is all about staying alive through as many battles as possible! Choose six heroes from most of the 40+ Banner Saga characters, then pit them against dredge, horseborn, bandits, and varl alike. Earn Renown and an item with each victory, unlock heroes to replace those who fall in battle, and upgrade the veterans who stay alive. To play, simply click on the Survival Mode banner on the start screen of Banner Saga 2.

Survival Details:
  • Choose 6 heroes from a full roster. After you begin, you can recruit more heroes with renown.
  • Your progress is saved, but you can only reload a battle a limited number of times. You have 3 reloads to start with and you gain 1 more reload ever 5 battles.
  • Heroes who fall in battle are _dead_ and can be given a Viking Funeral to regain some renown and recruit new heroes.
  • Heroes have no kill count requirement for promotion. If you have the renown, you can promote the hero.
  • Battles have a 30 second turn timer (and 60 second deployment timer) to keep the action moving quickly.
  • Battle turn order is fixed from the start, like pillage mode.
  • Scores are tallied and leaderboards are displayed for playing in Normal or Hard difficulty.
  • 12 new Survival mode achievements!
  • One enemy per battle spawns with an item equipped. Kill the enemy, and gain the item!
  • Every 5 battles offers the opportunity for a second wave of fighting, which opens up the possibility for additional renown and items.

Join the discussion about Survival Mode on our Steam forum:http://steamcommunity.com/app/281640/discussions/3/

Other Changes in Build 2.30.120:
  • Fix issue preventing '+x Renown' banners in battle from displaying the correct renown for higher ranked enemies
  • Fixed seam in baldrungr's godstone background sprites
  • Fix reversed red/green coloration on DRAWING AGGRO items description
  • Added 'Consequences' section on Match Resolution that displays Injuries (or Deaths, in Survival)
 

LESS T_T

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Codex 2014
:necro:

What went wrong with The Banner Saga 2: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...is-trilogy-we-cant-leave-the-story-unfinished

"We were quite exhausted at the end of The Banner Saga," he continues. "Running a Kickstarter campaign is extremely demanding. There's the setup portion, there's running it for the month, and then for the rest of the development you're supporting that community, answering questions, giving updates. It's a full-time job, and we didn't have anybody dedicated to being that community manager. It was a scary prospect."

Ultimately, Stoic decided on what amounted to an "almost 180-degree turn" for The Banner Saga 2. "Let's just close the doors, close the curtains, spend our own money and do it our own way, without having to answer to anybody. And that's what we did.

"About halfway through, when the money starts getting tight, we started thinking, 'why the hell didn't we get a Kickstarter?'"

The reason might well be success. The Banner Saga raised far more money from Kickstarter than Stoic had expected, and it went on to sell more copies than expected, too. That money could fund what they wanted for The Banner Saga 2, while also being tangible evidence of a community of people who would be interested in playing the next chapter of the story. Stoic decided to focus on making sure that the next chapter was even better.

"I think we dropped the ball there," Watson admits. "We thought that audience would still just be there. We really neglected our community during the development of Banner Saga 2, because we were focusing on our work. I think that was a mistake. We all agree that was a mistake."

The Banner Saga 2 launched for PC in April 2016, and the mistake was immediately clear. In its first few months on Steam, The Banner Saga 2 sold around a third of what The Banner Saga sold over the same period. When GamesIndustry.biz spoke to Versus Evil, Stoic's publisher, last year, Steve Escalante lamented a massive increase in the number of competing titles on The Banner Saga 2's launch week.

"That is a factor," Watson agrees. "With The Banner Saga we launched against 70 games that month. With The Banner Saga 2 it was over 400, so that is a factor. You are fighting more for attention, and it's remarkable how many people I meet say, 'oh, Banner Saga 2 is out?' They just don't know, and we spent a lot of money marketing it. We tried to make it known."

To his credit, Watson swiftly moves the conversation away from factors beyond Stoic's control, seeking instead to identify - and address - its mistakes. As much as anything else, The Banner Saga 2's PC launch demonstrated that retaining a community for a sequel is about more than making an even better game. Stoic now has one person working as a full-time community manager, and that's in a team of just six people.

Though they see success of The Banner Saga as a franchise:

Indeed, Stoic is looking even deeper than that to ensure its future stability. The team could see that up to 75% of new players who started The Banner Saga 2 on a given week were importing a save from the first game, and The Banner Saga had "a significant flaw" that had gone unaddressed at the time of the sequel's launch. There was, Watson says, "an absurdly steep difficulty curve" for its final boss battle, a consequence of Stoic angling for climactic challenge and tipping the balance too far. Only half of players who reached that fight persevered, leaving the other half with a sour final impression.

"If they finish that battle they are minutes from finishing the game," he says. "It's fucking tragic. They're so close."

According to Watson, 1,000 new people play the first game every single day, and "the funnel" from there into the sequel is clearly observable in Stoic's data. "Seeing this funnel from The Banner Saga really woke us up to the necessity of getting people through the first game," he says. "We've actually spent the last few weeks working on an update to The Banner Saga that basically tunes that battle, so that people can get through."

This kind of thinking is integral to Stoic's strategy in the fallout from The Banner Saga 2's underwhelming early performance. In addition to smoothing the path between the two games, it has translated the sequel into six languages and launched on iOS, Android, PlayStation 4 and Xbox One. The Banner Saga 2 actually launched on Xbox as part of Games With Gold, where it was downloaded more than 1.6 million times. Stoic only received a flat fee for all of those downloads, Watson admits, but the studio is now more focused on the whole franchise rather than an individual game.

"Those things help, and then the launch of The Banner Saga 2 drove sales of Banner Saga. If you look at The Banner Saga as a franchise - all the platforms and both the games - it's generating about the same revenue... It's like building a wedge. Banner Saga 3 might sell a third of what Banner Saga 2 did, but it should lift up the other games. That's what we're betting on."

What it takes to make the third game:

With The Banner Saga 3, the final game in a planned trilogy, the discussion around funding it was more difficult. "Arnie [Jorgensen] and I... all of our personal fortunes, all of our finances, are buried in The Banner Saga," Watson says. "We've been doing this for four years, we spent all of our retirement money, and we haven't replenished that yet. We both have kids, they have to go to college, and we can't just keep betting it all every time, because making entertainment is the riskiest thing."

It is still too early to seriously contemplate a return to crowdfunding, but Stoic's projected budget is likely greater than the sum they could reasonably expect to raise through Kickstarter - it isn't 2012 any more. Watson admits that he and Jorgensen seriously discussed seeking private investment, and even "shopped around" for options.

"That would have worked, but you're paying back quite a bit. The Banner Saga 3 is probably gonna cost about $2 million to make - that's a lot. So maybe we could get $500,000, but when you get investment you're basically paying it back 3x... That means when we sell The Banner Saga 3 $1 million of extra money goes away [to the investors], as well as giving back the $500k. That would take the pressure off us for sure, a little bit. We would each de-leverage ourselves by $250,000, but when the game ships we're paying back an extra $1 million.

"Is taking investor money gonna make the game sell? Is it gonna make it $1 million more profitable? No. It'll make it a little bit better; we could spend some of that money maybe doing some more animations, maybe we increase the quality level a little bit. The quality has to reach a certain bar for people to accept it as a sequel, because we set that bar for ourselves. But beyond that it won't really affect the profitability. It would be a vanity thing. We just want to make it better."

When Stoic is finished with The Banner Saga, when it is making an entirely new project from scratch, investment of that kind would make a great deal of sense. For The Banner Saga 3, though, taking an investor's money would be "kinda stupid" - a little peace of mind in the here and now in exchange for a lot more potential problems further down the road. Stoic is betting on The Banner Saga as a franchise, and once again it will make that bet with its own money.

"We have to do it," Watson says. "We set out to make this trilogy. We can't leave the story unfinished."
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
They also spent a lot of time making Banner Saga 2. I was expecting it to be a one year slam dunk. Would have been more profitable then.
 

Lhynn

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Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,823
Was banner saga 2 combat not completely retarded? i dont think i ever asked, lost interest after banner saga 1.
 

Lostpleb

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Was banner saga 2 combat not completely retarded? i dont think i ever asked, lost interest after banner saga 1.
Mostly just repetitive since there were no new mechanics to be found and the first Banner Saga was meant to be replayed, so the combat system already felt old by the time the sequel came out.

All that aside; TBS's combat was turn-based, flowed well, looked good and even took some unusual steps by making it so that the characters got weaker as they fought and their HP dropped lower. It was no Jagged Alliance, but retarded might be a bit of a strong word when there was obviously a lot of polish that went into the whole thing.
 

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